Mainland Sim Full: Who Is To Blame?

next person to post in this thread smells like cat pee.

My cat pee'd all over my favorite shoes last night. So I'll take the post.

i pee on my favorite shoes all the time. and the toilet seat.

If that keeps up, shoot me an IM, we are professionals at my house when it comes to wayward litterbox issues.

Is it time to derail this thread yet?

Apparantly it has been on the wrong track from the start, so I guess the answer is yes Getting the feeling 2k has something with pee by the way. Would love to ask more details but the forum is PG

In case anybody is still keeping score at home, this isn't the first thread about Bear, and every time anybody tries to get to the ground truth of the situation by actually visiting the sim and finding the same generally amicable atmosphere (if inane--it is SL, after all), there's always some explanation for why suddenly everybody's on their best behavior and the visitors are being duped or duplicitous or some damned thing or other.

In the past, I've just written this off as some unwholesome combination of a persecution complex and an unwarranted sense of entitlement. But seeing the pictures this time, there's something much deeper and more disturbing wrong here. It may be the method Nixon used: consciously taking on the appearance of insanity to make an adversary fear what madness could follow. Or it may be madness. But all this is just not a response that fits the bounds of rationality.

I wish everyone at Bear the best, but neither that place nor this thread is one I'll be visiting again any time soon.

Couldn't this matter be resolved if LL upped the Avatar limits from 43 to say 60, thus keeping both parties happy.......or is that too easy a solution? I mean is it physically do-able, could the Bear SIM CPU handle that load?


I see both sides of the argument here....on the one side if i were a business owner on that SIM, i'd be none too happy if potential customers were unable to TP in due to SIM being full.....on the other side is the freedom of movement and being able to utilise LL public areas for whatever reason.


The selling up of land and relocating your business is not really a great solution. It takes time to optimise search results for your business, especially if you been there for 3 years.
Anyone owning a viable business knows that. If one is forced out of Bear sim, whose to say one doesn't encounter similar problems elsewhere. Sometimes you have to make a stand......maybe not so controversially though! Also buying your own Estate might not be viable for your business model......i own several Estate sims, yet i choose to pay tiers to a 3rd party and locate my businesses onto their popular commercial districts because of the natural traffic it has.

Given all the hoohah coming from both camps, it's rather ironic that the people that could do something about this, choose to do nothing (LL)

Firstly, that quote was not directed at Lias; it was directed at your post. Specifically, the part which I quoted. Context is important.

Secondly, the scientific process of evaluating a claim based on evidence is a very detatched, impersonal process. A claim is either proven, or not proven. Your attempt to personalize this issue by insisting that my evaluation of the claim as "not proven" is an ipso-facto declaration that Lias must be lying only muddies the water further than it already is. I explicitly state what's on my mind; If I think Lias is lying, I will say this in so many words. I don't "imply" anything. I cannot help what you INFER from my statements, though.



My observations are all I have to go on. I cannot assume facts not in evidence.



Indicates unfamiliarity with the scientific process - specifically the concept of the "null hypothesis".

Fortunately, most people need a reason TO believe something before they will believe it; if it is your choice to believe any old notion that hasn't specifically been proven absolutely false, that's your perrogative.

Technically speaking, it hasn't been absolutely proven that Second Life is NOT a social experiment being conducted by malevolent robotic Smurfs from the planet Zeist, who are controlling the Lindens' minds with an air loom. But it hasn't been proven to be SO either - so most will tend to go on with life as if it isn't true. This is the way most people do things. If a claim is made, and no evidence can be found to support the claim, the claim is rejected, pending different evidence. To cling to the claim for dear life, weaving special stories about why it's still true even though it can't be proven right now, is the action of someone whose emotions - or ego - are too closely tied to their claim.

Maybe this whole saga got off on a wrong footing and instead of being at loggerheads with one another it could have been approached differently from the outset.

Example : If an Events Board listing on behalf of Ryan & Lias could be rigged up within the Info Hub, showing the times of Events being held on that SIM. A mentioning that sim (AV's) resources are required during those times....and if they could kindly keep crowds to a minimum until after the Event. (i.e seek alternative locations)

Its seems the peak AV spikes are few and far between and only centres around when Events are being held by the surrounding land owners. Outside those Event times, i don't see any real issues about congregating at the Info Hub to be honest.


Jeeze....we have 20,500 sims on the grid most of which are empty.....and we're fighting over a small piece of land in the heart of old Mainland.

Yes, I know it was a response to my post (I can read), but it was *about* Lias. You jumped on the bandwagon.

As I said, I can read - I read your post, and I undertsoof what your post was getting at - Lias.

I know that, which is why it was wrong to make your implied accusation against Lias. Do you want me to go back through the thread and look for more of your posts? I may find more solid accusations. Or shall we stick at your implication in that post?

We are required to be scientists now to understand what you write? Just so's you know - you can't prove that what Lias says doesn't happen. All you can ever do it show that it has never happened at the time of your observations. You want to be scientific? Remember that. Better still, cut out the 'scientific' crap, and discuss normally.

You are right that most people need a reason to believe something, so how about this for a reason. Lias has lived with what happens in Bear for a very long time. She's the expert. It seems reasonable to me to believe an expert in a subject rather than novices, which, in the case of the Bear sim, almost everyone in this thread is - you and me included. You may think that Lias has some unstated motives, as some have done in this thread, but, like the others, you would only be using your imagination. Why not just accept what she says happens there?

I am worried about the old loiterers creating new loiterers out of unsuspecting noobs. My focus has not change. Kuro stands there and tells at least ten noobs to use the infohub as a chat zone each week. And his companions do the same. If just a small percentage take them up on the offer the hib will be overrun with chatters within a few months. If I didn't let people knwo that the sim is full at 43 avatars and at 30 avatars the server slows to a crawl - they would never knwo they were inconvieniencing anyone. These older loiterers never share that information with their new green recruits.
Not more right - but more capable of filling the sim than they are since I have more resources to make it happen. New players that cannot teleport to Bear sim don't really care. They have no idea where they are going anyway. I assume if they teleport from help island the get dropped in a infohub that has an available avatar spot in the sim. So if Bear sim is full no harm, no foul. It is only the loiterers that feel they should be able to have their daily sessions in the infohub. They make an organized effort to shove their group down our throats and take over the infohub - even when they have a parcel a few meters away. Last night they AR'd Ryan's prim that connects his parcel to the road so people can walk to the store without falling into the water. Now we know that most roadside shop owners have a prim connecting themselves to the road. Many in Bear Sim do. So if Ryan's prim is removed then that means everyone's must be removed also. And all of the prims connecting to the road in all of the mainland sims. These people do not care who they attack in their quest to hang out and pretend to have alot of friends. They could hang on their own parcel but this is more fun for them. These people do not translate into traffic for thesim, they do not translate into customers for the stores in the sim and they do not help any new players really understand what SL is about. The Infohub project is a failed one - and should be scrapped and re-visited as part of the Public Works initiative.

makes me kinda wonder what version we should take as gospel for we all know 'experts' never lie.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but... being a host or whatever of a nightclub would, I think, take quite a few people skills, at least to be a successful one. And presumably, if someone is teaching those skills, they have those skills themselves.

/me is currently suffering cognitive dissonance...

Hi Renee. As you know I had the island last July and had left the mainland parcels as they were for most of 2006 and half of 2007. When I realized we had way too many scripts running on the island I remembered that Bear Land I was paying for. I went there and dusted out the old warehouse and set the school up. But on the first Saturday of classes I could not get 8 students into the parcel. I saw a bunch of green dots on the mini map and followed them
It was the infohub. I asked them what they were all doing. "Absolutely nothing" they replied. I told them I was running a class and needed space. "Too bad, down with big business!" they replied. And it has been down hill from there. And these were not children. These were 30 to 40 year old adults with jobs. I guess they are RPing as uncaring hippies in some sort of free society. Whatever may be the case - there was no shooing them away. So after 10 months of this nonsense I will begin to fight back. And I know I will probably be blocking myself out of the sim at times also. I will just have to work on other projects until this issue gets sorted. Or, like one poster said - the war will rage on forever. Just one sim with 42 green dots on it until the end of time.

Lias is the expert in the topic of what happens in the Bear sim. I see no reason to disbelieve her. The idea that she invented that someone had suggested she ask for av spaces when she needs them just doesn't feel right. It sounds true to me, although I can't know that it's true. Of course, the guy who said it would deny it. That's what many people do when they've done something that doesn't sound so good. Or he may have forgotten - I didn't say he was lying - I said that I don't believe him. It's something that is more likely to be remembered by the landowner who pays the tier than by him.

I don't need to go figure. If I were one of the hub people, I wouldn't want the place filling up at this particular time when it's under scrutiny. I'd recommend staying out of that 'event', because the intention of it was to have a pop at the landowners there. And why shouldn't Ryan, a landowner in the sim, rail at the person (Sarah Nerd) who did the most to promote the 'event'. It was a stupid thing to do, and Sarah should be ashamed of herself for trying to whip up the numbers.

[added]
Read Lias' post before this one, and tell me if you question the truthfulness of it. I don't.

One down and 30 to go.

And the cigarette companies have "experts" that say smoking is safe.

Sarah did nothing to be ashamed of. She gathered a group of people to visit a public area. Nothing at all wrong with that.

Why take any of it as gospel? Why the need to believe? And why the need to attack Lias when she hasn't written anything that is obviously a lie. It's the bandwagon mentality - non-thinking mentality.

Just because a majority of the people can spot B.S. when it is being spread does not make it a bandwagon. Lias has been spreading this same crap for over a year. Her reputation precedes her.

Your group has a parcel within eyesight of the infohub. Syanding there would not stop the natural flow of traffic out of the infohub. And you can still be in Bear. There is absolutely no reason for you or anyone to gather in large groups in a Infohub. LL may have abandoned then to teh mobs - but it is wrong and negatively effects others in the sim. What is the differnce from standing on your own parcel as opposed to loitering in the infohub?

Nonsense. If you think that, then tell me why she suddenly wanted to agther a group of people to visit that particular public area. Tell me.

More nonsense. Lias has been affected by it for that length of time. Is it only permitted to moan once when the problem continues? People may get tired of hearing about it, but it doesn't mean that the problems are not real. However, in this thread, there has been a lot of jumping on the bandwagon by people who haven't heard about it before.

Lindens did raise the number from 35 lastyear to 43. They even told me they directed many new players away from the hub to lower the numbers. But with the older loiterers recruiting daily- their numbers just keep increasing. When none of the Bear parcel owners were using Bear for a year - the loiterers never had to concern themselves with sim resources. Bear was hidden until it was included in the list of infohubs that one could go beta test the voice program last year. After that, people assumed LL meant that they should always go chat in infohubs. LL employees did nothing to dispell this - it made the mob happy and any desk jockey wants a happy mob.

Exactly,why take one persons word as true, that's exactly what your doing. You negate whatever anyone else says or does because you believe the OP. I have no problem with you believing such but. Why negate what others believe? Ive seen no logic in your attacks, yes attacks which you say others do. So until I have proof I will draw my own conclusions.

What I said about Sarah Nerd was due to something that she openly did here. The accustaions (not attacks) that I talk of are imaginations - people imagine that Lias has ulterior motives, but they don't know that she does. Nevertheless, they post that she does, and that's just plain wrong.

I'm not taking anyone's word as true - I've said a few times that I really don't know. I've said that I believe some thing because they ring true, but I still don't *know* them to be true. And that's the whole point of me entering the thread in these later pages - nobody else knows either, and they shouldn't be posting some of the things they do. They villify the victim, for goodness sakes, on the imagined assumption that she's up to various things. She says she gets grief from people at the hub. People here answer it by criticising her builds etc. What sort of people are in the forum? Try imagining yourself in her shoes for the last year and see what it looks like. That's what I did yesterday.