Mainland Sim Full: Who Is To Blame?

I found some old blog photos and a new photo from last month showing the issues in Bear Sim. You will, of course, convince yourself that they don't exist But I figured I could show them to you so you will leave Phil alone.

Here we have the beginning of the loitering issue on a Saturday last July. I asked them to disperse and they chanted "Down with Business" I had to cancel the Saturday class. Eventually I had to stop attempting to have classes on Saturdays. ANd the picture farthest to the right shows the problem has mushroomed.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e298/bladyblue/BEAR/BearInfohubLoiteringTimeline.jpg

Oh Mort were wasting keystrokes on things you knwo dont matter. Your beginning to debate like a Bear Buddie. Saying anything to cloud the issue.

The Infohub resource abuses do not take place within the lodge.

But is the lodge designed to provide seating for chats?

I repeat is the infohub designed (not used... ) to provide places for conversations and as you term it loitering?


I was there, I know it has seating arranged within the lodge for chats. And it matters because it shows if there was intent on the construction of said facility for people to hang around and chat.

And said photos show incidents by the way, they do not prove conclusive data that a log from LL with users on location per hour of the day would.

It's like clubs, as I'm sure you are aware the crowd will reach high peaks and then dwindle suddenly to nearly empty and cycles.

As for poor Ryan unless the insults were in IMs I didn't hear any till he got aggressive against those there and looking through my logs I didn't see any unless they were said outside the 20m chat range.


And one reason most congregate at the landing point is that 20 m chat range which limits how far away you can be to talk to each other

Just stepping in to confirm this. Ryan acted like an A-1 tool. Nobody was insulting him out loud anyway. Especially not Sarah who he started badgering out of the blue when she had not even spoken to him.

I still have sympathy for your situation Lias, but Ryan's charming personality yesterday doesn't make me think of him as a "poor" anything.. well, maybe a poor judge of how to act in public.

Why does it matter where they congregate?

In a public infohub or a private area... would the numbers not affect the sim performance?

Sarah reads a forum post about complete strangers disa greeing. So she stirs the mix to see what drama she can get going. Talk about trolling.

These public Linden areas seem to being out the worse in people who are tempted to loiter on them for long periods of time. The 'Group think' and 'Mob mentality' takes over and all rational thought goes out the window.

Mort I answered this one twice. Congregating on their own parcel would leave the infohub to it's natural traffick flow - as it was prior to July 2007. The Bear Buddies parcel would not remain full without their easy access to new players rezzing in the infohub. So they could chat at each other on their own parcel and the sim would function normally.

How would it function normally if the same number of folks congregate in a different area?

And they can leave a greater sitting at the info hub and offering to help newbies, with landmarks to freebie locations (that unlike the one set up across from the info hub do not charge more than 1l if that for the items available in the free business in a box kits) and info kits on better paying things than camping (one comes to mind that would pay and let them explore sl at the same time).

Can then send them over to the parcel if they have more questions.

In effect doing what a helper should do for the newbies.

edit: annoying typos that slip past the spell checker

Hmm sorry none of my groups own any land in Bear, I only got there to rezz when I login and you are locking people out with your trafficbots and attempting to ban me from my birthplace in SL.
I hope if someday you do get the Infohub removed and newbies banned you enjoy your lonely empty bunch of "0"s and "1"s.

There is a natural flow of new players that rez in the infohub. They wander around the brick area for a few minutes. Touch the notecard giver and free texture giver Torley put there, work on appearance and then wander into the sim. That has always been the pattern. With the loiterers there the new players stay in th ehub much longer trying to figure out why everyone is there. Then a loiterer will tell them that this is a place for free group chatting anytime they want. Well this is great - first time on the grid and found a place to hang out. They do not bother to tell them about the Server limitations. So the crowd swells.

It is not allowed to recruit in infohubs. If it was every venue would send a rep there and grab noobs. The NCI wall is there to help educate new players and Mentors do come there to help also.

Who said recruiting?

I said helping them understand the basic on SL, and who better to ask then the veterans talking in a group.

And it is a place where they can sit and chat, as is any and all public places on the grid.





As is looking at the builds and server stats, I wonder how much script overhead is being burned up when the number of active scripts is over half the number of objects on the sim.

The lights, and particles add to graphical lag almost to the point I felt like asking linden labs to come look into why the sim's performance was so bad with only 8 people on the sim.

The infohub functioned as it should for its first year in existence. Normal traffick flow (none of these double didgit numbers - three times the traffick of any parcel in the sim). There was a simbiotic relationship between the parcels and the hub. Then when voice was rolling out last summer LL said go try voice in a hub - and that was the beginning of the end. My response - after ten months - to this constant inconvienience is to use as much resources you loiterers do. My ugly build is there to remind you that you are causing server issues for this tier payer. See the pictures below and see the truth. Accept it or not. The tide has changed. Make your adjustments.

They have, your response is to push till linden labs snaps at you for going past the line.

They did it already once, if they see a deliberate and methodical misuse of the server resources because you do not like how a public place is used... the one being sanctioned is likely to be you.

You forget there is more than just the TOS that can be used against you, there is also the community rules which you are imho disregarding in order to ruin the experience for others over a sense of entitlement

I thought this statement meant sending them to a particular parcel in the sim:



And the camping in Nepessing right next door does not help either. Oh well, what was once a lovely sim from 2005 ingected by only one adfarmer is now a loe resource lag-fest.

If we cannot use the resources as we need to while paying for the privilidge we are no longer maintaining the visual and physical comfort level of infohub loiterers.

You do realize that is outright admitting that you are going out of your way to grief visually and through resource usage in direct violation of the TOS and community standards?

Maybe it's because I'm reading it out of context or something, but I don't see that at all.

o.o

ETA:: Never mind.. I think I kinda understand what you're getting at.

I was told how many dancepads I can have out in the sim - and that is how many I will have. My builds and signage have never been questioned by LL. I am all set. The Infohub loiterers may need to adjust their numbers though.

That blade cuts both ways. Excessive loitering ruin my experience - and I have documnted proof of that. LL can stay within its own rule lines regarding this issue or stick its neck out. We shall see whoch direction it goes in. I bet they continue to ignore the situation hoping that it goes away. That has worked for them for ten months - no need to adjust their game plan now.

that may change shortly



I think linden labs already made that clear when they returned your dance pads, they do not see it as an abuse of the resources for people to gather in the public info hubs.

I am saying that when building or placing scripted items in the past - we were careful to make sure that we were creating a comfortable environment, even at our own expense. There are many things that I can put on my land but I took into consideration the people around me. I am sure you have seen sims that have that one neighbor with the horrible build and nonsense on his parcel. That person does not feel he is greifing anyone - he is doing what he wants on the parcel he pays for. He is in his right to do so - as long as the build stays within the TOS. My build may be huge and flashy - but I am allowed to have it.

I am saying to you : Why should I maintain a visually appealing sim when I have to meter my activities because of senseless loitering in the infohub? You want me to pay for server resources, keep the scripst low and the builds lovy. Would you like me to do your homework and wash your car also? Enough catering to a bunch of people that cannot understand thattheir mass gathering in the infohub disrupts the natural flow of traffic into the sim and causes sim performance issues.

I doubt that very much. Since my neighbor has had the same amount of dance pads out for three years. Linden Lab cannot lowr the amount of dancepads a tier payer has out everytime their infohub loiterers want to gather more people there. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.


They said it was due to scripts - not the gathering. I know that 30 dancepads is excessive. I needed to be given a acceptable number - which is what I got. I have it in writing and carved in stone.

Gathering in an Infohub does not take precedence over tier payers using the resources they pay for.

There you go then, your recourse is to sue LL, good luck.

You are correct for a change. It wasn't a serious question, and yes, I am too lazy to look through the thread. Nevertheless, it wasn't a threat, as you twisted it to be in your not very good way of discussing things.

Actually it's, if you know one bit of information about a particle, you can't know another bit of information about it - Heisenberg and all. But ah well. Velocity and location are merely the usual examples of information that are written in books. Keep studying

So if you tell me that you didn't sleep last night, I can assume that it isn't necessarily true, because there is no tangible evidence of it? That's not the way that people interact with each other. On the whole, when someone says something, it is taken as true, unless the person is a known liar or is shown to be lying. Lias isn't a known liar (nobody has said that she is), and she hasn't been shown to be lying. So why do you need tangible evidence from her? Especially since you know that it's not possible to acquire. What's wrong with treating what she says in the normal way?

You may be right in your assertion, but you don't *know* that you right, therefore it wasn't worth asserting. I don't suppose it ever crossed your mind that the reason for it being introduced "LATER" is because there was no need at all to introduce it earlier, since the discussion about watching the place only came into it "LATER". It's not very scientific, I know - it's called common sense - it's why things are said as they come up in conversations, and not all right at the start.

I know that what people write is nothing to do with you, and vice versa. I used what he wrote as an example. But I do paint the writers of the negative stuff in this thread with the same brush - the bandwagon brush. It started with the 2nd reply to the OP, and people jumped on the bandwagon - including you in your small way.

Sorry, but you are wrong again. No physics theory is ever proved to be true. All the observations in the world can't prove it. The only thing that can ever be done is disprove it, and the disproof may be right around the corner with the next text/experiment. Even things like Einstein's 2 theories of relativity are only theories (hence their names ), and are only as good as the last test.

It hasn't been proven right, but that doesn't say anything about whether or not it's right, which brings us right back to my reason for entering this thread later on. Nobody can say that it hasn't been happening. Therefore all the accusations etc. are wrong and nasty.

Don't concern yourself with me, Lias. He is easy to debate with, because he keeps leaving holes in his arguments.

Dakota:

I changed my mind, and went through the thread. Before you decided to debate with me, you'd only made one post:-

It was a fair enough question, even though it implied that Lias is on the wrong side (and don't talk about inferences - you definitely implied it). I say it was a fair enough question, but only for someone who didn't know anything about it; i.e. you seem to be the only one who didn't know that Lias was there before the infohub, even though it was stated clearly prior to your post, which leads me to believe that you didn't read the thread. Instead you jumped in at a later stage, and jumped right on the bandwagon.

Judging by that post and your next one - the one where you decided to debate with me - you are definitely on the negative side, virtually calling Lias a liar...

... which makes you just as guilty as the others, even though you snuck it in through sarcasm.