Mainland Sim Full: Who Is To Blame?

content is subject to change with online play is the plain and simple way most online worlds put it

Tier results in: faster and more numerous support options, possession of digital land for building rights.

And if you knew there was an issues with folks using the info hub as LL currently sees their intended purpose, why did you move more clubs into the sim to create an even larger sim burden?

And the parking lot comparison fails, because it's more like people gathering in the parks and ignoring the strip malls around them



As for the edit: got a change log? And if you check 1year passed before the revisions. Besides that is the current view on the use of info hubs...

The infohub was added content after asking us did we want it. That is the reality of how it was placed in Bear. What you are quoting has nothing to do with how this situation progressed.

Yes, and LL responded to my resource issue last year by adding 8 more avatar spots in the sim. PAY ATTENTION: LL acknowledged that the infohub was now using more resources than it had in the past and THAT WAS ADVERSLEY EFFECTING THE PARCEL OWNERS' EXPERIENCE. they tried a quick-fix by adding 8 more avatar spots. This, of course, translated into 8 more loiterers.

Again Mort, LL came to me and said it would be a rez spot for new players leaving help island. And that is exactly what I consider it to be. Allowing it to be used as a mass gathering place for chatting, loitering and greifing is not what I agreed to and the sim cannot sustain that and the tier paying residents.

Huh? people loitering in pparking lots all day don't usually have any gainful employment. Therefore they cannot shop in the mall - only loiter in front of it.

If any platform asked customers if they wanted clearly defined content and then - for absolutely no reason, re-define the content and megatively impacted teh customer - You would expect this exact reaction.

And Mort, I do not know why you keep posting the same questions over and over here. There are no holes in my argument (except the "The Lindens are Earth-bound gods and they can do anything they want" argument). There are obviously a few human Lindens - because Blue Linden's plan to add more infohubs to mainland sims has changed into creating infohubs on Linden content-only islands. And that is a step in the right direction.

The residents choose to use the linden owned parcel in a manner that linden labs finds appropriate

And if anything , they recognized said infohubs becoming community centers and chose to embrace it.

Tsk tsk, judging from the avatars many do rather well. They use a park as a meeting place, much like many groups meeting in central park do since it is a large public venue.

And if you were comparing the newbies to the ones lacking gainful employment, then one wonders why you would want them in the sim to begin with? The only use would be to a boost to traffic ratings, either through wandering or camping.



And I repeat this question which you don't answer:

Would the lindens do anything if one club on a sim had a higher amount of people using it's venue to a point a competing venue wasn't able to function due to the popularity of the other on a mainland sim?

And the answer is no, as long as it was actual residents and not camp bots filling it out. Which is why you had camping pads returned when it affected non-campers enjoying a public venue


Edit: I tend to be stubborn especially when I get im's telling me to quit it.

Not all of the residents. Mob mentality does not make it acceptable or an arrangement agreed upon.

Linden Lab has realized that placing these on the mainland will not work in the long run. They do not have the manpower to make them work for the mobs and the tier payers in the sim. That is why the new infohubs will be on Linden-content only islands.

Again, I repeat. The Loitering issues are not becuae of new players. We agreed to have new players come to the sim. WQe did not agree to have the infohub used as a mass gathering area. Why would we agree to that and then complain all of the avatar spots are taken by the infohub? Don't be silly.

And if you were comparing the newbies to the ones lacking gainful employment, then one wonders why you would want them in the sim to begin with? The only use would be to a boost to traffic ratings, either through wandering or camping.[/QUOTE]And again, the most loitering is done by experienced players, not new players. There are avatars that have never left Warhead. They have start dates from 2006. These people have gone no further than the Welcome Area. They enjoy the attention they get there and the antics of the greifers- and that is all SL is to them. ANd that's great for them. But if I am paying tier I expect to be able to access my parcel (I cannot build on said parcel if I cannot access it). Unproductive loiterng is not something I should be forced to support.

And Mort this is what I have been trying to tell you since you started this up again. The answers to these questions are in this thread. You have overlooked them or forgotten them or are wearing rose-colored glasses.

You asked in thread #567
and I responded:

Let me put it this way:

What happens when someone puts up a club that manages to use up the same number of slots as the so called loiters? It would be the same problem, regardless of the ages of the avatars.

Will linden labs do anything then, even if you can not access you parcel while the club is in full swing and they are not using camping devices?

And you are right in that post, it's not guaranteed that you have access to the land. It's never been guaranteed that you can use any part of the services LL provides as you deem appropriate. It's actually spelled out in the TOS:



If the server is full because of a gathering of residents (tier paying or otherwise) Linden labs will just shrug and look into maybe updating the server to hold more if the traffic metrics show a steady issue (they do have logs of server load and more than just the traffic numbers... since said traffic numbers are worthless when many wind up porting home then porting elsewhere because teleports are acting odd barely staying long enough for the sim to rez)

And communities spring up when people first get into the game and meet someone at the info hubs. They are community centers, always have been... to think they were just places a newbie is ported to when they leave newbie island and then forgotten was shortsightedness. Those locations are the defacto 'home' for them, quite often literally.

All you had to do was look at the larger info hubs and realize even small ones will build up a community of residents.

I do not know why you are repeating subjects from threads already discussed. You can see info on this in post 19, 36, 40, 132, 34, etc.

How much you spam your own sim with ugly builds I do not really care about, but it would be kind of you to at least make your banner a size that doesn't fight with the forum. There should be a guideline somewhere around on the maximum width that fits in the column, but at the moment its way too wide.

signature banner fixed.

Great, thanks

Because the only issue is your actions in the eyes of most of the community here.

You've admitted to building up the plot across from the info hub with the implied intent of visual unattractiveness if not outright harassment of legitimate resident use of said infohub.

All in my mind from a sense of entitlement similar to how a strip mall owner feels about the public park across the road (not parking lot, park) when it is not used as they think it should by people who don't bother visiting his stores.

Most understand that the infohubs are not one visit and whoosh never come back. The welcome centers when they first came out were prime examples of that, and yet you expected different? Some of the more popular clubs and hangout spots are tiny places, The Ark was till the semi-recent rebuilding

You have a current and up to date description of how linden labs sees the infohubs, so they are not going to kick people out from using them based on rez dates because it would block community development. You seem to ignore that in order to insult and belittle the community that has formed at the infohub in bear.

And if someone is griefing, file an AR. Same goes for anyone at said infohub who is peacefully visiting and chatting when told to get out.

And I still don't know why someone teaching club management would place multiple clubs on a sim, any sim. Much less move more into one after seeing another venue gathering enough of a crowd to make it likely the sim would be hard pressed to support more than one venue being used. (And being there first doesn't mean much in RL or SL )

This still does not explain why you keep posting the same questions over and over again. You obviously do not agree with the answers provided. But that is no reason to keep repeating everythiong. Just scroll back and review.
This question was answered in thread #404. Scroll back.

Addresses in post #231, 313 and 405

Most understand that the infohubs are not one visit and whoosh never come back. The welcome centers when they first came out were prime examples of that, and yet you expected different? Some of the more popular clubs and hangout spots are tiny places, The Ark was till the semi-recent rebuilding.[/QUOTE]Post 275 (by you), 367

Post 258

Post #1

Post 258

Mort you will need to re-read the thread to find anymore answers to the same questions you keep asking over and over again. If you actually have anything new to bring to the table considering this matter then it will be responded to.

What I added that is new is Linden Lab announcing that three Infohub Islands are now online. These are a major change to what they had planned - whiich was 30 more infohubs on the existing mainland. I am happy to see that after my talk with Blue Linden and ten months of reported resource abuses - LL has decided not to compound the mistake they made. These new infohubs will in no way impact the resources that tier paying customers expect to use. If anyone is desperate enough for attention and teleports to one of these greifer islands - then they get what they ask for.

And no mention of any changes what so ever to the current info hubs or the communities there.

And I still see your dislike shine through on referring in the negative to the people using the infohubs as griefers because the majority are only griefing in that they are using a public park to talk vs actual griefing (or do you ar people that sit there and peacefully talk at the infohub?)

What recourses you expect to use can still be tied up by the community and LL will do nothing to stop it because they can't and will not stop people from communicating together as long as they do not violate the ToS and CS.

Nice to see the build across the way turned into a far less lag inducing one.

.

I said in some ways the info hubs have outlived their usefulness

I did not say they were completely useless or needed to be removed.

Originally they were starting points for people from welcome island, as it stands that part of their usefulness is over.

As mainland based community centers they are still useful, Bear is a good example as many residents return to there for conversations with new and old residents.

The SL feed needs to be updated as do the kiosks, and perhaps some of the designs of the existing info hubs.

Bear could benefit from more seating, with the current level of scripts out there it would be easy to redo the seating to use no pose balls and still be animated seating. (allowing for some seating perhaps under the trees)

Several of the other park style info hubs can also benefit, the urban ones may need a lot more work due to the design not being easily scaled. (Nova Albion comes to mind, there isn't much that can be done with the land and design as available)


But I also agree that larger and more detailed starting islands would be a good thing.

Yep, more seating would look nicer so we don't have it's beauty marred by people standing around messily upsetting the neighbours by unbalancing it's Feng Shui. Bad balance of Yin & Yang is probably one of the reasons Bear has so much trouble retaining regulars, unlike Ahern or Hanja, or Watermouth, they are the sort of people we need to hang out regularly at Bear infofub to bring it in line...................

I honestly don't have time to spend reading 40 pages of this thread. so I don't know if anyone from bear has responded to this or not. I met the group at bear 3 months ago now and made fast friends. I originally came from IRC where chatters are a lot less pleasant than they are on Second Life. In fact just about the only nasty person I have ever come across outside of Ahern is lias. From my very first encounter with the woman, she has been rude.

While I empathize with her problem I see it as the fault of Linden labs or whoever, not the chatters at bear who are only looking to meet with friends and have a good time. I believe that had lias come to the chatters at bear with kindness and not an arrogant air of entitlement we could have worked something out that benefited everyone. It is however far beyond that now.


I question Lias' motives. Is it simply that she wants to be able to use her club/store/whatever it is this week, or has it become a personal vendetta?
I believe it is the latter.

On IRC if you have a problem with people in your channel that cannot be talked out you kick them out. if you don't have the power to kick them out you give up and create a channel on a server that gives you more power. I see Lias' efforts in all of this a completely illogical and emotion based decision to win a war.

the reality is eventually with enough time and effort Lias will probably win, but we will laugh and hang out somewhere else (possibly still in the same sim) as someone on the first page of this thread pointed out, lias is only hurting herself at this point.

LOL

*yawn*

Got to page 12 and gave up. What a load of old twaddle.

Yes, all that standing around is time consuming.


Your quite new to this and I know your too busy to read. In July 2007 I came to the infohub when I noticed the sim was full and all of the green dots were there. I thought the asset server had dumped the folks there. They explained they hang outthere and - no matter how nice I asked- they refused to move. They yelled 'down with big business' and had some fun laughing at my plight. So much for asking nice.

When you or Linden Lab pays my tier it won't be personal.

The group of people you hang out with have a 2000 meter parcel within eyesight of the infohub in the same sim. Hanging out and laughingon their parcel would be a viable solution. The natural flow of traffic in the infohub would be restored and you all, just as my groups are, would be on your own parcel.

Linden Lab made the right move in opening 3 full infohub islands. No more subjecting tier-paying residents to the un-supervised greifer hang-outs that were to be useful rez points for new residents.

I had one neighbour that used to have always pile of people on land most of time was dificult even for me to get home so once i requested restart of sim cos of lag and right after restart i notice that people is still online...how was that possible?
Answer is he was using bots to increase trafic i hit report button and also entered live chat inworld help and voila my problem was gone my neighbour was wasted

Lias's issue is with live people and not bots using the welcome area as a community center.

and one of her biggest arguments is that the numbers wouldn't matter if they were to take two steps to the right off the welcome center property

Considering the entitlement in her manner and speech about being a tier paying resident in these forums posts, I have a hunch that similar was expressed when she approached the people using the hub. And it doesn't seem to cross her mind, they didn't have to accept her request to move out of the sim.

And hope that the new infosims will change things in Bear is still speculation, since no comments were made about taking out the older mainland welcome areas.

My problem persists because my neighbor is Linden Lab. Their unsupervised plot of land is constantly used to waste sim resources. The loiterers actually had a Linden come by the sim last night to complain that I, the tier payer in the sim, had too many people on my parcels (lol). Of course, they could do nothing but wait until one or two spots opened up before they could enter the sim. I believe that it is more than fair that tier-paying residents should use the sim resources before loiterers waste them. The more they mass AR and complain about the tier-payers using the sim resources, the more Linden Lab will see that these mainland infohubs (in their current state of unsupervised mis-use) is a waste of time, energy and resources. Or S. Linden can come running everytime the Loiterers cannot gather in a huge group to tell fart jokes for five hours.

Considering that you thought it necessary to write that piece of pure imagination, and smeer someone with your pathetic thinking, I surmise that you are are a scummy, argumentative dickhead - and that's not my imagination. You need to learn to use the few remaining braincells that you have left.

Sorry Phil, Lias has smeared herself with her tirades and griefing in the Bear sim. Your insults are really disgusting.