Mainland Sim Full: Who Is To Blame?

One does not need a plan to stand around and do nothing. I have scheduled activities that I advertise. I do not believe that the people coming to these activities on the parcel I pay tier for should be blocked by people loitering in an infohub.

Wow that was a nasty one.
I hope that some actiosn will lower the loitering - Linden Lab has already accommodated the loiterers by increasing the avatar limit in the sim. I am not sure that that will be a viable solution again. The server crawls to a near stop when we are above 30 avatars. Infohubs no longer have a working relationship with the parcel owners in a sim. Either the parcel owners puts up with waiting in line to use the resources they partially pay to use or they take action to encourage some positive changes to the 'public planning' that the Lindens engage in.

Nuke it from space...its the only way to be sure!!!

To borrow from Brenda: "Christ on a pony, is this still alive?"

Yes and no.

Most of it's in the linden's hands to be resolved. So we'll see.

Most likely outcome is more people flocking to bear just to see what the fuss is about and making the perceived problem worse.

And for the most part I did look around the sim, there really isn't much there to interest people to leave the info hub and spread out

What would kill me would be LL adding more seating to the hub.

Really most people do not wish to absorb anyone else's drama. Only you and a hand-full of drama seekers made the effort to become apart of the problem.

Oddly, the same content making the same traffic for two years looses all of its traffic the month LL tells people to go start voice chatting in infohubs. Face reality - the chat loitering stops the natural flow of traffic into the sim. New players to stop and talk for as long as they want. These new players' online time is consummed standing in the infohub abusing resources.

Kill you or entertain your 'pull-wings-off-flies' sense of humor?

On Sunday Afternoon the regular loiterers were joined by 4 Linden Lab Mentors all wearing their group tags sitting on the Infohub wall chatting and telling jokes with anyone that would stop and talk to them. When i appeared two quickly removed their Mentor group tags from being displayed over their heads. They never addressed me but one did fly to one of my parcels and stood there until I banned him. He returned to the infohub, They sat there chatting for nearly two hours.

This odd behavior from these Mentors tell sme thatit is going to be a long summer.

Nope, I came to see first hand what was going on.

What content? If there was content that had repeat draw then there would be repeat users to said content.

As for more seating, it would be a silent but firm answer to your calling them loiters

If there are four mentors there chatting with the new people... then they are doing their job as mentors. Removal of the group tag means nothing really, considering they may have gotten bogged down in IMs and turned it off to prevent more overwhelming them (seen it done many times...) or if they had a group title up they may have joined one.

As for visiting your land, did you check to see if he afk'd or simply was lagging out from the eye sore created across from the info hub?

Seeing conspiracies is usually a guilty conscience thing, after all someone that was worried about chat logs wouldn't talk with keyboard but only voice but doesn't mean one that prefers voice while they do other things is trying to hide stuff.

Uhm mentors are not Linden Lab Officials, the only rights they have over other residents is having access to the non public orientation and help islands.

Like Mortvent said, it is the job of Mentors to talk to new residents and help out with any problem any resident has, offcourse they can't ban anyone or return prims but they can and will show you how to file an Abuse Report if you can't do that yourself.
Offcourse they tell jokes between helping out, having a sence of humor is important for a mentor to have or they would get burned out very fast.

How many Mentors does it take to screw in a ligtbulb? Not 4 sitting on a wall in a infohub encouraging mass gathering in a sim they are fully aware that has overcrowding issues due to the infohub.

I knwo what the job of Mentors are - have been one on my alt since 2005. We have never been given a directive to gather in mainland infohubs and start chat groups. These mentors were there encouraging group chat ( I saved the chatlog - convo was about how Bear used to be such a great chat area, etc.)

Mainland sims cannot maintain unsupervised mass loitering in Infohubs and the resource needs of the tier payers in the sim. Infohubs became chat areas summer 2007. Before that they were considered rez areas for new players coming to the mainland. With th population growing daily it is uneasonable to assume that these areas can efficiently maintain these crowds with the limited resources available to mainland sims.
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If you had done your research instead of grasping and excuses - you would have seen that the people that had retail shops around theinfohub also have stores all over the grif. They market the other sites but had in the past just relied upon infohub traffic there to make descent sales. The content there is what it is - and has always been. Obviously it had been enough to make the tier payments acceptable. We had about 200 brand new players rezzing there daily and a nice flow into the sim.

Mort it is all about Human Nature - not what you consider pretty content. Brand new in a place - you are standing in a parking lot with a wall and a bench and you see an exit. People take that opportunity to move on - not stand there for three months. That had always been the initial reaction. Now thatgreifers and chat groups have taken over the infohubs - the new players stop and use their inline time to chat with the first group of people (beside the help island people) they have come across. When these people tell them to stay there and use that area as a chat zone - many will take them up on that. The problem is that a mainland sim cannot maintain that ever-growing loitering crowd.

It would be igniting even more controversy and do nothing to address the overcrowding issue in infohubs abandoned to the mobs. It would solidify the notion that Linden Lab has no concept of public planning, that LL has their priorities skewered and values free accounts above tier paying customers and ensure that this will be a never-ending story.

Wrong answer. They were chatting with each other and two players from 2006. No new players. I actually post FACTS and not make-believe - you should try it Mort.

Again, FACTS. As I stated my land is no where near the infohub. My land is on the edge of Gealain, across the sim.


I agree. So when they quickly hid their Mentor tags and stopped typing they looked quite guilty.
Encourgaing mass gathering in a infohub that already has resource issues should not be something active Mentors do. I hope that LL uses its volunteer resources to help alleviate issues and not compound them.

Does it matter if it's a group chatting at an info hub or gathering in a club?

The same number of resources are used, so if the info hubs need to go so do all public and private ventures that result in largish crowds on the mainland sims.

And 4 helpers in an info hub helping and talking with those there is only a problem because you make it out to be one. Group chat allows for sharing of knowledge and information as well as builds community. All tasks things a mentor is supposed to foster in people, and if there is a big crowd at the time it would be easy for a mentor to be swamped with questions.

It would be igniting even more controversy and do nothing to address the overcrowding issue in infohubs abandoned to the mobs. It would solidify the notion that Linden Lab has no concept of public planning, that LL has their priorities skewered and values free accounts above tier paying customers and ensure that this will be a never-ending story.

If there are four mentors there chatting with the new people... then they are doing their job as mentors. Removal of the group tag means nothing really, considering they may have gotten bogged down in IMs and turned it off to prevent more overwhelming them (seen it done many times...) or if they had a group title up they may have joined one.[/QUOTE]Wrong answer. They were chatting with each other and two players from 2006. No new players. I actually post FACTS and not make-believe - you should try it Mort.

Again, FACTS. As I stated my land is no where near the infohub. My land is on the edge of Gealain, across the sim.


I agree. So when they quickly hid their Mentor tags and stopped typing they looked quite guilty.
Encourgaing mass gathering in a infohub that already has resource issues should not be something active Mentors do. I hope that LL uses its volunteer resources to help alleviate issues and not compound them.[/QUOTE]

Clubs and the like provide places for people to migrate too, if they provide a venue that attracts the crowds. Stores and the like are more likely to be searched out and visited, and I was looking at the prices at said stores and the items within as well.

And I would love to seem them make said info hub hold as many as any one of the clubs on the sim is set up to handle.

As for the facts, got something like high quality screenshots with names versus the text files?

So an individual exploring the sim and gets banned? Did you IM then, or consider RL concerns on their part? All I see is a report of someone on your land and just standing there, not griefing, not talking... considering the client's stability in general hardly reason for a ban.

As for looking guilty your insistence on me getting on voice rather than sending an IM to talk could be taken the same way during one of the few visits on my main account.

Mort for teh third time I will answer thsi for you. Yes it matters. The natural flow of traffic into the sim from the infohub is disrupted wen mass chatting and loitering is encourgaed in the infohub.

As I said - no new players - just Mentors with 2007 birthdates and some folks from 2006.

We had group chat and helping going on in that infohub way before the summer of 2007. And at no time did the sim fill up with most of the avatars at the infohub for hours. You have to seek out the cause for that and then make the changes to fix the problem. You cannot expect tier payers to go elsewhere while the inohub abuses die down. There has to be some positive action to address the problem. Positive action does not include wearing a tag that would be assumed to be a offical one to new players and then encourgaing yet more resource abuses. That is irresponsible.

So if someone was to buy up a lot and set up plenty of seating right next to the info hub... and all of them moved to said club you wouldn't complain.

Even if people rezzing in see the group and wander over to see what is going on and stick around for hours on end?

It seems you main beef is with the chosen venue they are gathering in.



*shrug* Mentors are supposed to help all players as best they can, new and old.

Rez dates are not necessarily a pure gauge of people's knowledge and experience with SL

A good example is those like me who had months out of world, others are going to ask about scripting and building. New features in the viewers (or rarely used features such as the lag meter and the script reset tools)

Mort, again we discussed this ten pages ago. The loitering group at theinfohub has their own parcel in Bear sim 60 meters away from the infohub. Gathering on their own parcel and not disrupting the natural flow of traffic would be acceptbale. It is what I and every other parcel owner in the sim does. It is the right thing to do.

Ah, so you didn't sit in the info hub for a period of time, when I was last there, chatting with folks along with one of your employees? (and said employee I recognized from previous times being there at the infohub)

Since they are tier paying owners of part of the sim, should they not be able to use the same public resources as you?

Mort for me to invite all 160 people in my staff group to the infohub for a chat would be irresponsible and an abuse of resources. I am aware of this. Others have to be mature enough to realize this and temper their activtives in infohubs so as not to inconvienience others. Recruiting new players into a large chat group that meets in a mainland infohub daily is abusive to the sim resources and disrupts the natural flow of traffic out of a infohub.

But it's not abusive to recruit and advertise for a club that uses a mainland sim?

People port to said club, they do not leave the club except to port to other sims and places.

In effect the bear infohub functions like a mainland club, in that it makes it hard for any other venue on that sim from functioning due to the resources used by the group present.

Edit: and in reply to your im, since too busy to log in.

At no point have you explained how it's different for the server resources to be tied up with people on a private parcel versus a public one.

You will get people wandering from both to look around, but quite often the folks visiting the clubs do not go exploring the sim.

So what is the difference between a club owner using up the resources versus a public infohub being used by the public?

Is it the fact said club is a profit making enterprise?

And how irresponsible is it to put multiple clubs on a sim causing them to compete for resources? (there is a reason most private sims limit it to one club and one mall per sim)

An Infohub, also known as a Welcome Area, is a place where Residents congregate and socialize.


https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417

It not only abusive but against the TOS to recruit for any activity while you are in a infohub.

Enuf said.

This loitering group has no real ability to create an audience. They do so by recruiting brand new players in the infohub. Recruiting in an infohub is not allowed. They can recruit all they want on their own parcel and return the natural flow of traffic to the infohubs.

It is not expected that people teleporting to a club event to explore the sim. That is why we lease retail space within the venue - to make sales to the audience we have advertised to. It was the function of theinfohub to bring new players to random mainland sims from Help Island and then they would explore. It was never intended (when Torley and Jack Linden publicized these new areas in mid-2006) To be a chat area. They made the 4 sim welcome areas function as community meeting areas. It would be stupid to assume that a 35 max avatar mainland sim could support a unsupervised mob of loiterers and greifers AND provide enough resources to support 5 parcel owners in the same sim.
Stupid happened when LL published a list of welcome areas and infohubs that people could go and try out the new voice client. They all assumed this was an invitation to stay and chat until forever. But the reality is that a one-sim infohub cannot sustain public loitering and tier payers comfortably. When my neighbor has too many players on his parcel I can IM him and get some relief. Not so when it comes to the infohub. The absentee landlord (Linden Lab) does nothing to relive the situation except add 8 more avatars spots to the server.

I do not pay tier to Linden Lab to compete with them for server resources. My service provider cannot in any way be responsible for me not accessing my parcel (resources).

The only assistance system Linden Lab has put in place for the peole that share the server with their infohubs is the Abuse Report System. And those cries fall on deaf ears. LL is a bbsentee landords that has allowed its parcels to be abandoned to the mobs.

Modified two years after infohubs were concieved. I keep telling you that Torley Linden ASKED us mainland parcel owners did we want a infohub in our sim to be used as "entry point on the Second Life Grid's Mainland for new Residents, after they complete Orientation Island, and (optionally) Help Island." We agreed to that only. Who in their right mind would agree to having a parcel in the sim they pay tier in that was to be used as a unsupervised "place where Residents congregate and socialize". Absolutely no one. This is called 'Bait and Switch'. If the Lindens can come to us and ask do we want a infohub for a certai nreason - and then they decide they would like to modify the purpose of teh parcel - they are obligated to come to us again and discuss this. Not just shove it down our throats. I had no idea thatthe community team were just in place to enforce any arbitrary nonsense concieved at some Linden Meeting. The meaning of community team would mean that they communicate with the Community and solve the community issues.
Linden Lab does not allow free accounts to access their precious forums. Or own mainland in their own names. This action shows that Linden Lab values their paying customers. Allowing the mobs to abuse the sim resources where infohubs are placed gives the opposite impression.
I wonder what the plan is to control the mobs that congregate at the new Bay city contienet public land areas. Those parcels are double prim and cost a whole lot more than regular mainland. I wonder if there will be some controls in place to make sure those customers can access their parcels when they want to.

The people in the sim making it full.

[RESOLVED]

[QUOTE=Linden Blog]Department of Public Works - Progress

Monday, May 19th, 2008 at 12:33 PM by: Michael Linden
Three locations for the new Region-sized hubs have been chosen, and design work is underway at the Mole studios.This is a viable solution. They had planned to add infohubs to existing mainland sims - they actually thought infohubs were great places (massive abuse reports not withstanding). After much noise from concerned mainland residents that plan has now evolved in isolated infohubs that do not impact the resources of the tier paying residents. 10 months later and they get a clue.


Now they need to clean up the mess they left behind.

No they aren't. It is their sandbox, you play by their rules or you can take your toys and go home.