Mainland Sim Full: Who Is To Blame?

Maybe so, but I think she does have a valid case. Unfortunately, she was unjustly set upon thoughout the thread, imo.

In some cases she set upon others. Unfortunately, I had just discovered that LL had removed the video recorder from the client at the time. The downside of voice is that it's more of a pain to come up with material appropriate for an AR.

While I do believe she has a valid beef re: infohub traffic, the tactics being used are questionable at best. You would think that a long term resident would have a slightly better grasp of the proper channels to go through with a complaint.

I would suspect its more of a reap what you sow. There's no case, LL had made its decision, its just trying to gain support and failing.

Unjustly set upon? Lias has been attacking and slandering who ever doesn't kiss her butt for over a year now. She is reaping what she has sown.

This is one of my favorite chains of reasoning - evidence by invisible proxy. Conveniently explains a distinct LACK of evidence by suggesting that some powerful entity is changing things to make it "look" as if the claimant is wrong. The lack of evidence, being a result of the conspiracy's efforts, thus becomes evidence that the claim is actually true.

In this case, the fact that all of us here can visit Bear, as I just did, and find no more than a dozen people there at any one time, is actually evidence that, yes, there's a constant gaggle of 30 avatars there using up resources (except of course when they're trying to make it seem like there isn't, the sneaky fellows).

To be honest, the only thing that will solve anything at this point is for LL to step in and take some sort of decisive action -- whether to move the infohub or to have a bit of a word with the residents who feel they must make existence as miserable as possible for whoever happens to wander by.

I'll leave it to others to judge LL's likelihood of *hah* taking decisive action.

That being said, I'm wandering off from this thread. Feel free to thump me about the head and shoulders if you see me in it again.

The "infohub group" only became aware of this discussion after hearing Lias try to advertise a JIRA to get Bear Infohub moved or removed. To my knowledge, there were no regulars from the Infohub was involved in this discussion until I made my first post.

Also, you're only seeing one side of the story here. We regularly get griefed in game by her. It's been to the point that the creator of the infohub had to ask her to stop.

As a frequent user of the hub I, personally, would love to see the hub moved away from our cantankerous n'bor. (Or vice versa--move the n'bor out.) I'd love a full, beautiful sim with no Ad-Farmimg, looped sound spamming, image griefing n'bors, to help newbies and chat with friends.

But Bear is a valid and thriving community resource that shoud NOT be closed down because of the "if I can't use it, no body can" mind-set.

That's a very tempting reaction when people accuse you of things that aren't true.

I don't disagree with that. She's dug her hells in, and is resorting to silly measures for no good reason, when the best course of action after all this time is to move.

It's digging her heels in - something I wouldn't in the circumstances, but it doesn't mean that what she says happens, doesn't actually happen. There's no reason to disbelieve her that I know of, but so many people here do.

All I know about Lias is in this thread. I don't know the history. What she writes in this thread may well be true, and I don't see any reason to disbelieve it just because the complaints have gone on for a year.

That doesn't make any sense at all, and is tantamount to yet another imagination-based accusation against Lias.

Then WHY do you complain about it HERE???

There are rare times there are 30-ish people at the infohub (usually after rolling restats and we have bots stuck in the sim) or a lot of regulars are on for whatever reason. It may last for an hour or so until people come and go as they go decide where to go or what to do in SL for the evening.

The sim does get full more often now than it used to. It usually only happens when she hosts events at her clubs and she can't get 20 people into two (soon to be three) clubs because we've hit a sim limit.

Why would one buy extra land in a sim to erect more clubs in a sim that one knows had occasional issues with user limits? I can make some educated guesses.

Of course not.

Let me simplify. You say "there's absolutely no reason not to believe that everything Lias is saying is true". Her claim is that upwards of 30 avs congregate there regularly, making use of the sim by others nearly impossible. We go there - not just one of us, but many of us, at DIFFERENT TIMES - and see 8 or 10 avs hanging out there, tops. That is a sound, logical, and all-around very GOOD reason to believe that not everything she's saying is true. The viability of a claim depends on the reproducablility of its claimed results, after all.

So, to explain this lack of evidence away, you claim that some special group is actually changing the way things normally are there, purposefully keeping the numbers low so that the rest of us, when we look, won't see a problem, and will therefore conclude that Lias is wrong, or at least exaggerating. That's special pleading; it's a logical fallacy, and it is tin-foil-hat conspiratoid nonsense.

conspiratoid?

The Lindens have the screen shots of the times that the sim was full and the green dots were mostly in the infohub. If it were all make-believe I am sure I would have been dealt with by now. But since te servce provider has all of the relevant data, abuse reports and phone logs regarding this issue - I continue to attempt to get them to step in and fix the problem they caused.

I erected more clubs in protest of your loitering. If the sim will be innacessable to me because of loitering I feel the loitering should not be wasted on chatters that can go stand in a sandbox to engage in the activity they cherish. I kept the sim quiet and pleasant for three years only to have you and your gang come in and tell me to ask if I want any avatar spots once you all log the server. That does not work for me. And after a year it is not going to work for you anymore either.

so far today I've seen at most 30 and usually around 10-15 at the hub.

It's easy to skew traffic with bots, so the map pictures are not much help.

most are going to eb at the info hub... not much else in the sim that attracts folks.

Oryx remember teh first post in this thread? Was it about the ten people posting here or was it about the sim being full and the Linden response to that? You were the first to reply - and you bought up the Bear Infohub issue by name - not me.

The problem with that is, you are basing your findings on what you and others have seen while this thread has been going. I've also seen the same as you (I've had the map open for hours at times). But you're forgetting Lias' claim that the number goes down when being watched. What you can't say is that they don't. Therefore your conclusion is just your imagination, and your previous post an imagination-based accusation.

Wouldn't it make more sense for sims with Infohubs to be owned exclusively by LL rather than residents? If this is realy a huge issue then LL should exercise some sort of eminent domain and force the buyout of parcels held by residents in those sims. Just my 2L worth.

Please take your pigs with you.

hon, your acting like a child as usual

It's not my job to say they don't; it's her job to prove that they do. It has always, always been the job of the claimant to support the claim, not the job of the skeptic to refute it. And no, reporting the results of observation is not the same as making a counter-claim.

Yes, I know she SAYS the number goes down when people are watching. But you need to understand the difference between evidence and anecdote. Right now, the idea of a conspiracy to "hide the truth" about the alleged problem at Bear does not sound like anything more than a rationalization to explain the fact that, at the moment, there isn't a shred of evidence to support the existence of such a problem. The existence of this "conspiracy" is equally unsupported allegation at this point. That's not my fault, nor is it the fault of anybody else who has gone to Bear and seen nothing problematic there. Lia's claims right now are unsubstantiated. That may change in the future, but that's the way things stand right now.

well here is a question:

Where are the visitors that can't normally get in when the info hub is supposedly full?

I've seen at most 8 elsewhere, and they were not there long or loitering on camp pads.

Well it is much easier for LL to move it's one build. And I am sure LL would not want the negative publicity or lawsuit stemming from such a move.

There are new Linden Contenints being built now that will include Public Works builds for community gathering. Let them go there and camp chat.

...or that too.

I don't have classes today anymore. I keep adjusting the schedule to accommodate the loitering - but to no avail. Unless I want to have classes at 4AM.

I added my classes again on Saturday - but if the sim is full on that day due to loiter camping and money camping I will just have to postpone them as I have in the past.

well one option for your classes that would demonstrate their effectiveness would be to hold them at a successful graduate's club with their permission.

Possibly with a tour of several graduate's clubs.

Kind prove they are not wasting their lindens by showing real world examples of how your teachings work