ALL ALTS listed in your profile

They were on the Un-American side of the war. The true american government has always been based in Washington, DC.

No, its not meaningless. It has great symbolic meaning. Great rhetoric meaning.

Or even in London... prior to the war of independence.

LOL OK...

Correction. In addition to Washington, D.C., the US Capital has officially been located in both New York City and Philadelphia at different times.

The official US government had NEVER acted/operated (in session) outside the continental US...ever.

Great catch and my oversight. You are 100% correct Plen. Thank you.

This sounds like a good compromise.

I definitely wouldn't support the "outing" of all alt accounts. I have to maintain my alternate accounts bisexual slut image! Or is that my own? Whatever.

What I *would* possibly support is the outing of the primary and alt accounts if a certain griefing threshold is reached... say, a suspension. Or a second suspension or something. Then people can be made aware of the alt accounts, and its an extra level of punishment for griefers. Plus, an incentive to not be a jackass... as stated above.

-Flip

That really wont work either,

Abuse reports can be filed for no reason at all, bogus abuse reports happen, trust me.

so let's say for example Kris (because she would make a fun example) =P

Kris is on an alt building away, and let's say Tcoz wants to out Kris's alts... so he goes to Kritania and starts reporting her objects, until she reaches the "abuse level" needed to out alts (btw say out alts 10 times fast)

So anyway, Im gonna go with status quo on this one too.

I use alts for the same reason Kris does, because Busy doesnt keep people from bothering you. And if you are busy and wander afk you miss things like inventory drops. If you are using an alt, your offline account will get the inventory drop. so... basically, why set busy when 9$ buys you eternal privacy? I dont view alts as anonymity I view it as an unlisted number. LL can identify an alt in a matter of seconds with their spooky godlike powers. So the system as it is currently works....

in closing I would like to say "If it isn't broken, don't fix it"

Ferran, it wouldn't be just abuse reports filed, it would be abuse reports that ended in suspensions, etc.

And secondly it IS broken, and in need of a fix.

A bit OT, but we desperately need inventory drop logging!! I want to see a list of who sent me what and when. "So and so sent you something or other that ended up somewhere in your inventory" isn't very helpful

Ferran, you seem to be assuming that the Lindens simply count abuse reports to decide on action.

It ain't so. The reports have to be backed by a great deal of evidence, and the Lindens perform their own investigation process. They have never simply taken my, or anybody's, word for it. I assume this is part of the reason that the Linden wheels of justice grind so slowly.

The fact remains; if the Lindens ban an alt based on the evidence they collect, then that alt has certainly committed a serious offense in the eyes of Linden, and the police blotter, or whatever, should make their alt account information available; it is their disgrace.

If you do not cross this line, you have nothing to worry about, and your anonymity is safe. The only alternative I see is to allow griefers to continue getting away with the status quo. Yes, I do think that you should be afraid to lose this right if you grief.

And I very, very much do think it's broken and needs to be fixed. As apparently do a great many other people. I reject the proposal that nothing needs to be done.

If we are to be self governing, then we need to be able to protect ourselves by avoiding certain individuals and refusing to patronize them, or be patronized by them. Exile might be ultimately the only form of justice we have. We don't want griefers in SL, and this appears to be a step towards a real solution.

Short answer: Yes. If you are naughty, they YOU are naughty. Not one of your alts. <i>You.</i>

So, your account should be dealt with universally. If avatar “A” was griefing, then every name on that account should be managed the same way.

The way this system is constructed, Linden Lab (and you, by accepting the Terms of Service) consider the card holder to be responsible for all the names on the account. So, I will too.

I do not agree that all alts should be made public. That sounds like too much personal information to release. (Besides, I’m gaming the system a bit myself, since I sometimes need an alt to go places where they blow my head off by default. And to talk to people who dismiss female opinion.) It’s really no business of anyone else’s how I play the game, and I shouldn’t have to confess.

Still, I wouldn’t get too excited if the company started listing your alts somewhere. I’d call them out on changing the rules mid-stream, but I wouldn’t pass out from outrage.

As far as accountability, however, the PERSON should be managed, not the screenname. If you are an abuser, your ACCOUNT should be suspended. Period. Any other approach is just silly.

Frankly, I though SL was do it that way. Can anyone verify that they suspend screennames instead of accounts?

This one I would agree to. It's not punishing those who don't grief, not giving griefers another target, and it's not something will affect the dedicated SLer.

Yes - I think that outing griefers is a good idea. It allows the people who they griefed to ban all of the alts from their land as well as being punitive.

So, basicially if my Stepfather Kills someone by this statement your saying I gotta go to jail with him I mean after all he is my stepfather?

Sorry Tcoz, I have posted with you off and on for a long time. I tend to agree with a lot of what you say. But, this time I am in staunch opposition to your view points here.

Alternate Accounts whatever they may be should in no way reflect on the primary account holders charature. I agree that the alt should be banned however, if the alts are done like some friends and family things you should not throw out the barrel of apples cause you found one rotten one. Just wash the rest off and get rid of the rotten one.

Sincerely, Shadow

No, however, you WOULD be known as "That guy who's stepfather killed that dude"

Yeah, I just realised this has been going on a few days but I have been sick and not inworld or on the forums. But, Still I wanted my opinion seen.

Shadow

Shadow,

Fair enough argument, though I personally believe that if your credit card is on someone's account, you should be responsible for their actions.

I really like the idea of personal responsibility, and I think this promotes it in the emerging form.

Sorry Hiro, I tend to disagree, think of it like giving your Kid a credit card to go buy that $300 sterio they wanted but you nor they had the cash at the time. So you work out an agreement they pay you back for the usage as in you buy it for them but if they break it they still pay you back for it. Thus if they screw up just that account should be banned.

Additionally, Im sorry but it's none of your business if I have an alternate account or not as if I want to be alone with my partner and not botherd with business dealings I would use an alternate account with their consent to do so. By making my alts public you have just violated my privacy.

So, in rhetoric does this mean I can put webcams in every orifice of your home and publicly display your day to day living. I think not and the point is the same should not be done with alternate accounts in SL. Sorry but I totaly disagree with you and Tcoz on this.

Shadow

But if the kid goes on a spending spree, the parent is responsible for paying the bill. It's not about breaking the physical card, it's about responsibility for actions with the card. My argument holds with your example.


Absolutely.
But we're talking about multiple offenders, griefers who have been warned over and over, even suspended a couple days. Their repeated violations, which violate others' rights (often that to privacy), negates their right to privacy.

At least temporarily - that was my last suggestion - make the suspension of privacy rights a temporary thing, but longer than the normal suspension.


No, but I have not broken any laws.
If I do, and I am sent to prison, guards would be watching me 24/7, and you sure as hell better believe that's an invasion of privacy.

Shadow, I'm not sure if you simply skimmed over the main revisions I made to Tcoz's suggestion or not... I"m guessing you did.

After reading 11 pages, here are my conclusions:

"people want to see alt because griefers are (in their belief) often alts of another account."
problem:
- familly or relatives, or even loosely coupled friends who used the same CC card. Knowing alts wouldn't tell people who is the culprit.
- if people knew who's the bad guy's main account, what good would it do? Would they go IW and lynch him? It's the Lindens job to punish griefers, not the job of the residents.

So showning alts wouldn't bring anything. Except for merchants would got pwned and would love to know if the next customer is an alt (instead of rethinking the way they do business...)


The parameter we can play with to reduce grief then seems to be the Linden's reactivity and efficiency when dealing with griefers (the story of the guy who bombed a club a whole month suggests there's room for improvement).

I have noticed that a LOT of people in this thread have made EXTRAVAGANT analogies with "invasion of privacy". Please stop being so dramatic.

Hiya Erikk! I met ya IW and you were really cool. However, this neg rating doesn't mean anything. There are so many more people with higher negs than that. This does not mean that he is a bad person in fact LF is one of the great builders in SL. You'll understand this when your IW for a few more months.

Knowing that somebody could grief you, then later smile in your face as you let them onto your land, into your class, into your shop, into your SL home, really irks me. I want the ability to ban that RL individual and make damn sure I in no way benefit him, or her, for good.

I believe the rules are, that the individual on the card is the one responsible for the account, no matter who plays it. You want to pay for somebody to play SL, use good judgement.

People need to understand that the alteration to the original proposal would only apply to the chronic griefer. Although I prefer my original suggestion, this one is undoubtedly more palatable and in no way compromises the legit player.

The Lindens have said, over and over, that the vision for SL is self governance; people seem to keep overlooking that. I believe revealing a chronic griefers alts is in keeping with that vision, as, since they often say, the only thing we really can do is "vote with our feet". Well, I want to make sure that my foot-vote applies meaningfully, not just to one screen name that may be deleted tomorrow.