ALL ALTS listed in your profile

How about:

When you ban one person from your land, or neg rate one person, it applies the same to their alts? It would, of course, not be shown to you, in order to keep identity private.

Tcoz, again I understand what your saying for the few that abuse the system but what of those that use it for good purposes such as wanting privacy or the ability to play anyone they want. The moment you "Out" all alts you have taken that right away and SL is no longer "Your Imagination Your World" But, "Welcome to Communism". Sorry Not flying here. (Please note Communisim in no way refects any country but a doctorine within itself.)

My view point is this Tcoz what your proposing seems selfish in its own way because apparent your getting griefed. Remember this, karma has a rule and for those that are doing what they are doing to you will get it back 10 fold. Just dont try to punish everyone else long term for a short term situation that your enduring.

As far as Self Governance, Sorry the day SL becomes Self Governing is the day 90% say FU and quit. Why? so many view points have been brought up against this time and again that I need not rehash it here. So again, Self Governance doesnt fly either.

To elaborate on this is simply stated as this within the confines of Self Governance Selfish whims and Mob Justice would rule and LL would still be held accountable for it's world.

Thus Self-Governance while owned by LL and not a seperate country or ideology cannot exist in this multinational environment.

Give the people facts don't try to baffel 'em with bullshit.

Sincerely, Shadow

Sorry Shad, but I don't think LL's policy should be based on superstition.

How would this work when a household has more than one player on the same credit card & IP?

Maybe some kind of process where you can declare seperate accounts?

Or required alt registration, with a punishment for not registering them?

Sorry Lance, I don't think it should be based on selfish whims of anger because someone is pissed off at someone or has a general disliking for a person either. But thats whats being proposed right now isnt it?

Yes, all the alts should wear yellow stars too so we know who to put on the train.

Godwin's law! Godwin's law!

Oooh. Wow. Hitler reference.

that wasn''t a hitler reference dumbass. But what you people want to do it the same thing. When you pay my bills you can have knowledge of my accounts.....saying you want alts known or marked is exactly how it begins.....where does it stop?

Okay, sorry, oppressive totalitarian genocidal dictator reference.

There is a solution to all of this.

#1 Letter/Email sent to Authorizing Party. The Letter would state Clearly the Reasoning.

#2 Upon Reply/NoReply one of the following actions take place.

A. if its Legitimately the Authorizing Party's Alt Account and they Claim it then a formal warning Takes place that the Alt and summarly the Primary account are on Probation.

B. if its a Secondary party's Account then the CC is Removed from the account and can only be reactivated by a NEW Credit Card Under a New Name.

Ie John Doe gave it to a friend. The friend Fk's up thus John Doe gets the warning. John Doe says I gave it to a friend as a Gift. Then LL Removes the CC and locks the Account.

Then Jack Assenhiemer the friend wants to log on but can't so they call LL. LL informs them that the orginal Authorizing Agent has removed his/her support. Then Jack Assenhiemer has to reestablish the account with a new card that cannot say John Doe on it. If Jack Agrees and obtains other methods of CC then thats Jack's Little red wagon from there and John Doe is free and Clear.

Punish the Punishiable not the innocent.

For those worried well LL says only 5 Alts per CC.

Well in a situation such as this if its Legit that John gave it to Jack and Jack Reestablishes ownership via a second method then John just got a new slot.

However, If Jack doesnt reestablish ownership then John is still semi penalized as no new Alt account can be made until the orginal account is purged Thus if it was John lying to LL about the account and there was no Jack. Then John cannot create a new account until it was resolved and LL gave John the all clear that the account had been handled.

Simple No?

All the while no one else but LL,John and Jack were involved as it should be.

Shadow

First they came for the griefers, and I did not speak out
because I was not a griefer;

Then they came for the rate whores, and I did not speak out
because I was not a rate whore;

Then they came for the forum trolls, and I did not speak out
because I was not a forum troll;

Then they came for the alts, and I did not speak out
because I was not an alt;

And when they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Hahaha

Shadow, do not state things about people directly unless you know what you are talking about. You also obviously don't know anything about me in world at all.

I am not being griefed in any way, and am more than capable of defending myself against attacks, as I have done in the past, by aggressively pursuing the griefer within the context of the TOS. I am simply tired of seeing griefers get away with giving people a hard time and ruining the experience of SL for many. That is a fact, not bullshit. Your accusations of selfishness and all the rest of it are unfounded and insulting. I have provided people with advanced banishing scripts and object scanners since the day I learned to create them, usually free of charge, in an effort to give them some tools to fight back. Many players have benefited from this.

I also disagree with your proposal. The idea is to prevent griefing in the first place. Your solution is too reactive and makes the presumption that SL can not exist without being policed like teenagers.

I think people would be far less likely to engage in griefing if there was risk to the primary cardholder and all alts of public censure. The Lindens are NOT an effective deterrent and demanding that they get more involved has failed for two years. I also believe primary cardholders would be considerably more likely to axe an account if they knew that they might end up paying the price for an alts activities, which is the way it should be. If you paid for an over 18-year old to enter the SL world and that person is malicious, then you should be held accountable because you are the enabler, not the malicious person. YOU paid his fare, you invited him, you are vouching for him. It should effect your reputation.

Further, there is no punishment at all being meted out to the innocent, there is no spying on alts, that's just rhetoric. You are responsible for all accounts on a credit card, they are not tied to the individuals that play them. You use good judgement when letting somebody into SL under your name or you pay the price.

SELF GOVERNING is the vision. I do not accept that we are incapable of it just because you said so.

To be honest once SL has no lindens anymore, and justice is 'self governed' on a friends-get-less-punishment basis, and everyone can spy on everyone's alts and see what people are up to, SL will be a kind of internet backwater, and I'll be long gone...

There's no reason to know who is who's alt. The lindens already know, and I'm sure they take it into account when dealing out punishment. There's no reason for it, except for being nosey.. If it were a player controlled government there's still no need, then would just leave the names blank and just leave the offences. Who you are shouldn't change the penalty, the offence(s) should. Also, if an offence is bad enough the lindens will already ban the whole CC in just one offence.

No, no, no, no, no.

My alt allows me to have a bit of peace and quiet to explore sims on my own without a constant flow of IMs. I love my friends but sometimes all I want to hear is the sound of the wind and the music as I fly from parcel to parcel.

What about the compromises?

I am with Trinity on this one. This is the worst idea ever.

Phad, you and trinity, and many others, apparently didn't read the whole thread, only the first few posts. Unfortunately that is very common, so I'll provide you with the data you overlooked.

The modified proposition would apply ONLY to chronic griefers, that is, people who are clearly using an alternate account to destroy the experience of SL for others. This anonymity is a form of protection for many of the most serious griefing incidents in the game.

Two years of yelling at Linden to please take more action, and they haven't. It is not rationale to continue doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. They have said repeatedly that the vision for SL is self governance, NOT to make Linden a policing authority, and from 2+ years in the game, from what I have seen, they appear intent on making that work somehow.

I personally am an advocate of self governance, as I would like to believe we are capable of behaving and dealing with malicious players without hallway monitors or lunch ladies.

for what it's worth i've never been griefed and the worst grief i know of any of my friends experiencing was a guy playing fart sounds until he got banned from their land. i'd like to gently suggest if you get griefed alot that you're at the far end of the bell curve and that griefing isn't a huge problem for sl in general.

seems to me the Lindens have a pretty good handle on griefing. i hope they keep up the work cause i don't want it left to the players. that's when you get Lord of the Fucking Flies and it turns into a vigilante slaughterfest.

now gimme the conch.

Actually, that's not what the original thread stated. You cannot blame people for not wanting to read 15 pages of stupid bantering when you just want to get your voice heard in the main topic at hand which was the main post. I don't even want to look around for this 'modified proposition'.

Anyways, I think it's a bad idea.

*scribbles her name down*

EEERROOOOOOOOOOOODING... Errrooooooooooooodinnngggg

Thank you, Evangeline. *hugs*

I'd have to say that if you want to put your thought at the bottom of 15 pages of posts, you should read them, or you run the risk of speaking entirely out of context, as you did. You have also written off many, many people as only contributing "stupid banter", when in fact a lot of the posts are actually good. Well, sweeping insults are nothing new here in SL. Also, since very few posts actually go 15 pages or more, maybe that's a sign that something interesting is going on.

People discuss things to modify original propositions, although I know on the SL forums that is a total mystery to many. Many people simply can not post anything without being overly defensive, profane, and insulting. What a world.

Nevertheless, after all this, and after hearing all the arguments against, the modified proposition still seems to be the best measure. I am entirely unconvinced that the alt identies of CHRONIC GRIEFERS should remain anonymous, I see no reason to provide them with this protection from community opinion and censure. If you play your alts legit, you would have nothing at all to worry about. Those are my guns and I'm sticking to them. Oddly enough a lot of people seem prepared to attack me personally for it.

With that said I'm done with this thread. I'm going to submit my proposal Although I'm sure I'm wasting my breath, at least I tried to do something other than say, "no that sucks and so do you".