ALL ALTS listed in your profile

I'm convinced that people should have all their alternate characters listed in their profiles, publicly viewable by anybody that wants to see. I would even go further and say that this information should be listed in any object created by any player.

The anonymity of alts is abused to the extreme to say the least. Legit use of an alt would in no way be compromised by people knowing the rest of that player's characters.

I understand that some people may want to anonymously play an alt legitimately. But the mechanics of SL just make abusing this capability far too easy and it is done every single day. Even the Lindens seem confused by how to handle it.

List all toons in the profile, and people will be a hell of a lot less likely to pull this crap and destroy a legit player's game experience.

I wouldn't support this idea. Some people use alts to escape griefing. What I would support is having suspensions and bannings apply to all accounts on a single CC or IP. If you get your alt banned your main goes with it. No exceptions.

WOW thats a great one! You know this would get rid of the multi av accounts in a way. Way to go CHIP!

I also know of some situations where 'alts' aren't alts at all... Some couples, for example, have both of their characters on the same CC.

Linden already has this capability. They are just completely reluctant to exercise it, and I don't believe they will change their mind about it.

It also does not inform the community in any way; we are still ignorant as to the indentity of the griefer, they maintain their anonymity. If Linden bans an alt for a week or whatever and all the characters go, we still don't know who to look out for. That main can just say they went on vacation.

I don't understand how you use an alt to escape griefing. If what you mean is, the main is being griefed and they log another toon so they can still play without being harassed, then the state of alts is still serving griefers; in effect, they win by compelling you to log off. This is not a model that players should consider as a necessary evil. I would resent having to pay for another account simply to continue playing in peace even though my main is in good standing.

What happens when they finally figure out that it's the alt of the person they were griefing...you destroy that one and make another alt?

An alt is an alt whether or not somebody else plays it. Having both of them listed in either of the characters profiles shouldn't be a problem at all.

Wouldnt really work. I have over 13 credit cards and i can call my isp and get them to assign me a new ip on a whim. There has to be another way.

My objection is that it takes rights away from honest people who might have perfectly legitimate reasons for having an alt. If someone is truly a griefer would they care if people know who they are? Probably not. I don't believe it would be an effective deterrent.

Totally. Many can just reset the router and get another one from DHCP a la many DSL services. Numerous credit cards, or credit cards of friends, are another hole in this.

The only thing it would remove would be total anonymity. You can still do whatever you want with your alt.

The rights of legit players are already abused to the extreme by griefers, and the current state of alts enables a great deal of that. It just isn't working the way it currently is, players need more information, particularly if we are supposed to be moving towards self governance.

An alt should be considered sort of a family member. You are accountable for it, publicly.

And thats what i want. I have an alt account for damn near everything, a few to hold my money so im not in the leaderboards. a few to build with so im not spammed with instant messages while working.

Billy, I'd have to say the using of alts to manipulate the public stats of your main sounds like gaming the system a la offshore accounts. The world has an inaccurate view of your main's net worth because you are offloading the money. I'm not making any accusations, I actually don't care if people do this, but it does illustrate how alts can be used to manipulate the mechanics of the game. Furthermore, having all the alts listed in your profile would in no way effect keeping you off the boards.

There's also busy mode; prevents IMs. Perhaps there should be a mode as well for "ONLY receive messages from the following" or something.

At this point in time we seem to have two choices. Continue with alts the way they are going and suffer, or make people accountable in open view for them. We all know from being around this game for a very long time that Linden just doesn't seem able to effectively and speedily deal with griefing unless it is extreme, and even then it seems to take considerable time.

13 credit cards? Why does this sound fishy to me?

I do NOT support this idea, especially while at the moment it isnt easily possible to hide your online presence. I use a single alt myself to do development work in private, listing the alt would completely remove the ability for me to do said work without interruption.

-Adam

I am with Chip here... against it. I have an alt for a legit reason. I chose to do get and pay for a 2nd account for privacy and well.. that was my choice. I am not abusing the system. I am not hurting or taking anything away from anyone. So, why should I be forced to show my alt's name when I had a very legit reason for keeping it hidden? That would be the day I said BigBrother when TOO far. LOL

If they want to merge and show my alt name.. then I say merge my inventories and land as well! Yeahhhhhhh no more paying to purchase two of an item... let 'em be shared between the accts. That sounds good... and let me share the land without having to set up a group situation. Yeah, that sounds real good..

Let's be honest here... if someone is going to grief and abuse, they are just going to DO it. They will find new methods.. and enjoying doing so! Why ruin it for the positive folks in the community?

Ok. So, everybody wants griefers to be able to hide behind their alts, and we all know that banning/Linden action is laughably ineffective. I also fail to understand why, in a game that is about society, people have such a strong desire to run away from their mains, but that's just me. I never use alts and have never liked them in any game I've ever played. If I had one in SL I would have no issue at all publishing that I was the owner and being completely open about it. I am who I am in SL and have no desire to hide from it. But admittedly that is a personal sentiment and apparently an unpopular one.

Anyway, perhaps list other ideas instead of just shooting down one of the two proposed? How do you prevent the rampant abuse of alts in this game, with the understanding that asking the Lindens to get more involved is more than unlikely?

First, I dispute the vague assertion that there is "rampant abuse of alts". I do so for two reasons... one ambiguity. You haven't defined abuse for me to agree or disagree with... therefore I have no choice but to disagree with it. Second, your conclusions presupposes agreement with your premise, contains a second argument not supported or implied in the first argument, and then presumes an either-or situation with only two alternatives --- though you challenge others to provide something else as an alternative.

I am in agreement with Chip, billy & adam. While some people DO use alts to grief there are MANY that have alts that do NOT. IMO it's not reasonable to take away the rights of those who want to protect their privacey. There are valid reasons & uses to have alts even if YOU don't agree with them.

The argument that 'this is a social game, so it's dumb to hide out on an alt' is a pretty silly one.

I don't know about you, but sometimes I get sick of the people I see EVERY DAY and want to do something without them. I don't have an alt on SL, but have had numerous alts on other games like Everquest. It is quite a relief to be able to still play the game you enjoy and get away from the drama of your established social-circle. A forced listing of alts in the profile would make it practically impossible for people to enjoy the many legitimate uses of alts.

I have one alt that never talks to anyone. It is an anti-social explorer. I use it when I want to explore the world without any interuption. If my alt was listed in my profile, people would just see that my alt is online and then IM it. Dont punish alts that dont bother anyone.

This is already in the Community Standards...

Alternate Accounts
While Residents may choose to play Second Life with more than one account, specifically or consistently using an alternate account to harass other Residents or violate the Community Standards is not acceptable. Alternate accounts are generally treated as separate from a Resident's principal account, but misuse of alternate accounts can and will result in disciplinary action on the principal account.

Korg, you always have a choice. Stating you do not is a self imposed limitation and not factual at all. FYI, read the forums. An alt committed a serious act of griefing just today. You also entirely sidestep the issue in a psuedo-intellectual attack on my post as opposed to clarifying what you think would be required to validate this as a a legit issue.

Alexandra, if you had read my post, you would have seen that I state that it is my personal sentiment that since this game is a social one that there is, again I state IMHO, no need to hide behind alts. I would say attacking my personal sentiment after I have conceded that it is apparently not popular and that another solution should be proposed isn't productive at all.

This is so typical for the forums. People entirely overlook that matter at hand and just start playing word games and going off into tangental attacks. Why do I bother. I'm capable of defending myself in game from griefing and perhaps should just worry about that, keep my scripts to myself, and just let people less capable of preventing these attacks fend for themselves. It's just exhausting.

I know of a few females (and a male) who have had serious stalker problems in game. And I havnt been here that long. Physical real life threats and various other abuses are not nearly as uncommon as one would think. The need for alts is an absolute, in my mind.
As for 13 credit cards, that isnt unusual. I've had upwards of 10 a few times, and know people with more than that. BUT....they are all in the same name....!! If the NAME on the credit card is banned....that person has to get credit cards in someone else's name to get back in. This isnt going to happen, because, frankly, no one at LL cares about their customers individually to solve the problem. As a whole sure, theyre interested in making us happy enough to continue giving them our money. But individually, its easier to let a few be chased off, or better yet, chased into making an alt also, who will then give LL more money....get the picture? This is win-win for LL...they arent going to fix it.
As for the club bombers, and general asshats crapping on sims, it doesnt stir up enough anger in the populace to get anything done. Without a large group exercising financial authority, it will continue unabated.
It isnt time for many people. Not enough have been affected yet, obviously. Given time, perhaps a reasonable group will get together and bring some financial distress down on them, and potentially get some results. I see no reason for LL to care about a sim being crashed. They are unaffected.
I'm waiting for more people to be ready. I have been for weeks. Singly, they wont really notice. All at once, and coordinated....that they will see. And perhaps still do nothing.

I think this is a terrible idea - it is an example of punishing those who use something in legitimate ways for the actions of those who don't. Instead of demanding alt account visibility, which you have no right to see any more so than you have a right to see someone's list of AOL screen names or all their phone numbers, you should be demanding tougher enforcement by Linden Lab on this. I agree there is a problem with alt abuse - there is a pretty visible player in these forums who switches between alts all the time in the same thread and attacks players, and LL seems to turn a blind eye to it.

It is not even a realistic request to show all alt accounts - I could easily create an alt account on a credit card in another name, and I have both a cable modem and DSL (don't ask, it is somehow cheaper to keep my cable modem than to get rid of it), so the IP method couldn't be used to detect it, so right there you would miss out on the alt connection. The solution is better enforcement when problems occur, not punishing the innocent.

You would honestly say that a reasonable defense for stalking or sexual harassment is an alt? THIS is the state of SL? OMG that's so, so sad.

I'd be willing to bet that anybody stalking or sexually harassing somebody in game, btw, is doing so with an alt.

Malana, I also never stated that you shouldn't have alts and do as you please with them, so the statement that I do not agree with legit use of alts is entirely from left field. I did, however, state that SL makes it far too easy to grief when hiding behind one, that it is a serious problem, and that since they seem unprepared to do anything about it, players need a way to indentify the owner of an alt to ensure they are not interactive with or benefiting that player in any way, i.e., buying goods, going to their club, allowing them at their events, whatever. This is self governance, and is long stated as the intent of Linden for the SL community.

I still see the guns blazing but nobody is proposing anything other than tell it to the Lindens. Well, two years of that and it hasn't done any good. Expecting a different result from the same action repeated over and over isn't rationale.

You're free to disagree. But holster that weapon and propose something.

Tcoz, it boils down to this:

Yes, alts are abused. Perhaps massivly.

However, there are legitimate uses for alts, regardless of if you see them or not, some of which would be harmed by your proposed changes.

Therefor I, and apparently most others, refuse to surrender our right to use alts as we feel we need to just because some other asshats abuse the right. It's not that "everybody wants griefers to be able to hide behind their alts", it's just that we refuse to be punished along with them when we have done nothing wrong.

Gotta dissagree with you tcoz. Griefers will find way anyway and I need my annonymous alt or I get burried in IMs. Sadly I have no suggestion as to how to deal with the griefers. Somehow I haven't had much problem with them. probably luck of the draw. I'm curious though... how is it useful for alts to be public? so they can be added to the ban list? so the linden's can ban all of them? If those are the cases then they don't need to be public, just the lindens need to know them.

All that is needed in this case is to more stringently enforce bans against griefers and all of their accounts. We don't need to propose an alternate solution, because the current rules handle this well enough. All that is required is a more extreme enforcement of the rules.

By removing the anonymity of alt accounts, you remove one of the only valid reasons for having an alt account.