RC Questions

Myself, I don't see that the posting of previous lawsuits against SL and LL is threatening them. (or trolling)
Look at it this way...the only language that gets their attention is $ signs.
They need to be reminded that they HAVE been sued and HAVE lost...and without a doubt will be SUED again with their unfair and one sided policies.
Maybe they will rethink a lot of what they are doing...and maybe see that the possibility is there.
As far as actually sueing them...it would have to be a Class action...no one person could afford it and SL knows this with the economy they way it is right now, and the fact the TOS has the $10,000 clause which effectively prevents any single person from sueing...which we signed in order to even log in...they have our money and when we sign that it's the same as duress, because they know we don't want to lose what money we have already invested in SL.

If we had taken that defeatist attitude towards LL with adfarms, we'd have 10x the number we had at the height of the Blight, now.

So, yes, while LL does (or doesn't do) whatever it wants, it CAN be influenced to change. It just takes constant pressure, applied continuously over time.

It is, of course, no guarantee that it will work every time, but if the choice is getting them to change or leaving, what other choice is there? I know I am not going to live under the new rules; from real evidence, I don't think I will be alone in that feeling, either.



That's only true in the narrowest of cases. In many cases out hiking in the woods, I have hiked the quarter mile up and over a fairly steep hill, rather than hike the 5-10 miles around it, which often would have meant hiking about half that distance after dark. Not a good idea in unfamiliar territory.

LL policy: "if you advertise your sexual content, it's 'adult content', and must be in an adult region; if you don't advertise it and keep it private, it's not adult content and doesn't need to be in an adult region".

Darien: "Unless you're running an adult business, you should be OK".

Oh yes, I can TOTALLY see that she's just stating the current policy.

Not even Blondin has said "Unless you're running an adult business, you should be OK".

Linden Labs: "Word of mouth may be advertising."

Darien: "No it isn't, they'll get their tits sued off."

Nope, she's absolutely not taking any kind of position there.

This is incorrect.

Some Lindens use agendas, but many of them, Jack, Torley (when he did OH), Blue, Zero, Andrew, and others use an unstructured, open-format in their office hours.

So they just ignore on the fly?

Cost - a court case against LL could cost $10Ks and take six month of time and hassle. Unless your issue with LL/TOS is worth some substantial 5-6 figure sum, it just isn't worth the time. Moreso if you are a non-US resident.

Also in this particular case, one of the issues is from those who wish to preserve anonymity - it is a little difficult to take court action against LL in RL and preserve anonymity!

However, in one case where someone did feel strongly enough (or had enough money at stake) to take LL to court (Bragg v Linden), the judge overruled two clauses of the TOS (the one stating that you agree that LL can abitrarily disable or delete an account if in its sole judgement the account is being abused; and the one stating that any legal action against LL must be heard in a Californian court).

Matthew

What if you advertise non sexual content but don't have you private sexual content locked away?


Sorry I have reached the point were i am starting to find this whole thing funny.
Tragic but funny.

Especially since i am loosing track of who said what previously.
(so many posts, so little brain left)
you know, just going by whats in the current post.

You miss my point. The Bragg case happened because they trod on the toes of a resident who was a lawyer in RL. They tried to hide behind their ToS and got shot down. I'm not a lawyer myself either, least of all one specializing in contract law. That means to pursue this angle I'd need to hire one and the modest profits I make from my SL business dont justify that expense, even if I was 100% sure these changes would put me out of business. However, they had better be very certain that none of the residents still unaware of this and about to be impacted fall into the same category Bragg did, pissed off and having the resources to do something about it. The odds are more in their favor here, since its less likely a RL lawyer will stand up and admit to working in the virtual adult industry than they would about working in virtual real estate but what about a sim owner who has to evict an adult club that pays a large chunk of the tier on that sim? I can see a RL lawyer in that position getting peeved enough to file.

The underlying point is that LL have clung to their blinkered view of a tiny minority of residents being impacted by the change, even though the visible scope creep and hamfisted implementation is clearly going to impact way more people than they think and not just those with adult-oriented businesses or careers in SL. Their exposure to this risk is therefore going to be significantly larger than they estimated. I'm not saying "this has to be illegal" because personally I think it could be argued either way - and to find out it has to BE argued and then ruled upon. It just wont take many instances of that for the financial downside of this project to make LL regret embarking on it. The original post wasnt precisely making a legal argument but a business one. A competent executive does not expose his company to that kind of unquantifiable risk.

When I came to SL I was excited like a kid at Christmas...I was always into graphics having built a few websites....sandbox's didn't cut it for me so I started buying land to see my builds permanantly.
I started meeting people from all around the world and made so many friends I lost count and I loved SL and my friends. It was all about freedom and sharing.
For the last year I've watched SL slowly take away little pieces here and there and changing the viewer to almost render it useless.
Now they want more of my freedom..actually most of it, they are effectively killing My World My Imagination slowly.
I don't feel the same as I used to about SL and everyday I feel less and less...when this was *announced* a couple months back I stopped building and scripting...I was losing the desire.
It doesn't matter even if they do a 180 and stop this change, the damage is done...how can I have faith or even trust SL again...I will always be looking over my shoulder to see what's coming next.
It leaves a sick feeling inside...almost like having a GF that was unfaithful...you love her so you take her back...but what happened never goes away and will always be in the back of your mind .....the relationship is doomed.
I have invested several thousand dollars in SL in two long hard years...I was proud of my land and what I had acheived on it......when they take it away it can never be replaced. but
I am staying and I'm taking the land swap.....I'm not sure what I will do after I move...I may build and try to be happy again but then again I may sell out and recover some of my WASTED money...I don't know yet.
I just want to say...Thank you SL for destroying My World My Imagination

That's making the assumption that they actually check / allow / disallow its use on future accounts for that purpose.

I don't think they are that smart... yet.

Sitting in SL right now....
Escorts, mature unchecked...
Results 1 - 10 of about 5310 for escort (0.039934 seconds)

first 10 are BUSINESSES.

Results 1 - 10 of about 7260 for free sex (0.061687 seconds)
Free sex.. mature unchecked...

Again... first 10 are businesses.

Results 1 - 10 of about 5250 for fuck (0.032846 seconds)
Fuck... mature unchecked...

Again...first ten are businesses....

Results 1 - 10 of about 853 for cunt (0.040003 seconds)
Cunt...mature unchecked....

This got a mix of groups, profiles and businesses


Now something interesting....


Results 1 - 10 of about 812 for religion (0.036541 seconds)
Religion...mature unchecked....

Results 1 - 10 of about 909 for religion (0.043909 seconds)
Religion...mature checked...

and about 1/2 these ads come up in multiple searches...

FIX THE EXISTING SEARCH. PUT THE G-TEAM on this. ALL those NON MATURE ADS NEED TO BE PROPERLY FLAGGED.
FIX THIS... this ONE THING... and 80% of this problem is solved.

HELLO?? EASY FIX... DO IT. STOP THE MADNESS!!
~Brie

Magic 8-Ball Linden says: "Outlook not so good". But you *can* have a skybox residence on the same parcel as a store, and the stuff in the skybox isn't "adult content".

You might want to look a bit closer into what the disupute was about before holding him up as a shining light of people who have had a raw deal at the hands of LL.

They check it to enforce the 5 account limit, and allegedly to enforce bans, so they must already have code for using PI for things like this somewhere.

I don't think one necessarily has to admire Bragg to recognize the implications of the suit.

57 votes away from 3000 on the JIRA. In less than a week. Imagine what it would be if LL actually mentioned this Adult Content plan on the login screen where everyone would see it rather than hiding it away in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door that says 'beware of the leopard'.

Estate land should be parcel level flagging, LL are offering no free tier period to estate owners or providing anything to estate tenants to help them with this plan.

I'll regularly call out TOS'ers but he was hardly an innocent victim of LL policy.

Well when you're always sure of the answer I guess you are just talking to yourself.

There is software that may allow you to download your sl inventory to your computer. At least I found something that captures everything but objects-they are still working on that. But hey I'm talking to myself.

Continuing that... if you're not willing to make any sacrifices then you have to settle for whatever the masters have in store for you. I won't be especially sympathetic either. Freedom doesn't mean you get everything you want-to me it means not being completely subject to the whims of others.

There are a lot of those "exceptions", and their ability to live their Second Life as they please has ironically been defended by Linden Lab itself in the past.

You don't need PIOF/PIU to experience SL as a "consumer". However, in the future, you will.

Personally, I never liked the decision LL made on 6/6/6; I think everyone should have used some kind of RL link to create their accounts. However, it still wouldn't have mattered much in this issue, because it is being driven by an irrational set of goals.

Exactly.

"Magic 8-Ball" I like that!

/me waits for the appearance of an actual "Magic8-Ball Linden" to give some answers we can understand.

Come on LL , I dare you!
Send in a new rep called "Magic8-Ball"

/me doubts they have the sense of humor to do so.

there are many government agencies that may undertake action on your behalf, particularly if lots of complaints are received.


http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/video-games-wholesale-and-manufacturers/linden-lab-in-san-francisco-ca-57373#govtaction?

These guys rated LL as F and they list the complaints they've received.

GreenKnight Kaul posted a list of various US based (primarily) agencies that could be contacted:/352/1d/318980/20.html#post2417280

I created a blog post with it because I don't think this information should be lost.

Those of you in the US should consider contacting the agencies or at least checking out the websites to see if they can help.

You don't always need a lawyer..

What's a rhetorical question?

Note the fourth word in the following sentence:

Of course he wasn't. Which means that he didn't even have to have a very strong case to fight LL to a draw in court.