RC Questions

A pompous blowhard's bid for attention?

Sadly I know all too well how little notice people take of T&Cs at time of registration/ ordering, but the point is if you implicitly agree to them (by a check box, a notification that clicking proceed means you accept the terms, etc) then it's *your* problem if you then find you're not happy with the service provided. In SL terms if you click that box then you are agreeing to something you've either read, or something you are lying about having read. If you're fibbing and get found out, then bye bye.



Oh, I totally agree with that, even if I believe stating acceptance of T&C at registration should be suffice. But I'd go so far as to say the whole rezoning, forced moves, mature land buyers not getting what they're still paying for and all the other issues could and should be avoided by simply implementing an in world pop up that could be set by the parcel owner. Add to that chat not passing beyond a parcel boundary and making it impossible to cam through walls and surely those who do not want to "accidentally" see this kind of content should have their delicate sensibilities protected without having to negatively disrupt the many who are going to suffer with the current plan.

I don't see how LL can keep requesting "debate" when they still don't seem to have fixed definitions of adult content, answers to how to move builds and items, or any fixed plan other than to banish some people to a pornotopia with no regard for the damage this will do to many people. The threads that keep sprialling out of control over this do so because to date all I've seen is one Linden who doesn't appear to be at all informed trying to pick and choose easy questions to half answer over and over again. So your notion of an explicit statement on registration, others ideas of solid walls, etc are a waste of time, other than to vent a little steam...

Ghetto, eh? Does this look like a ghetto?



Oh, sorry, that's another rhetorical question.

Since I'm not willing to rip off content creators in SL by pirating stuff from SL to OpenLife (and yes, I know a lot of people are doing this on a regular basis, I'm not) I'll take a 512 square meter chunk of Mainland over being Ruth in OpenLife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto?

A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."[1]

The definition of "ghetto" still has a similar meaning, but referring to broader range of social situations, such as any poverty-stricken urban area.

A ghetto is formed in three ways:[4]

* As ports of entry for racial minorities, and immigrant racial minorities.
* When the majority uses compulsion (typically violence, hostility, or legal barriers) to force minorities into particular areas.
* When economic conditions make it difficult for minority members to live in non-minority areas.

Openlife uses a horse avatar for ruths??

Ok... Strange but ok..

Well, if it IS the Titanic, helping the crew "salvage the vessel" is suicide.

I've not drawn that particular analogy, because it is absolutely fatalistic. My analogue du jour is the "train wreck", because they aren't usually so much fatal as they are simply spectacular messes and examples of epic failure.



I don't find very much in them true at all, what there is that can be considered with some measure of veracity, anyway. I am glad she is here talking about the issue as much as anyone, too, but she needs to spend more time addressing the points and suggestions that have been made, rather than continually clamoring that they don't exist.



That's right. They feel that a significant portion of their existing customer base is sacrifice-able for an imagined larger set of future customers. It is the classic "bird in the hand" parable; one which LL has effectively failed to learn from as a collective.

I find it amusing that M said all that crap about "don't be disruptive to the community" and "you have hours, not days", and I figure it was as a memoir of what he learned from his own failings at Organic.

In that case, I would predict that, in M's memoirs from his time at LL, that particular parable will figure prominently.

The problem is that it is apparently a lot easier to make wise observations about screwing up, than actually put those observations to use in preventing it.

Though strictly speaking most of the places described as "Ghettos" are not at all similar to the Warsaw Ghetto from which the name is derived. My college history professor got all kinds of apoplectic over the distinction between the Warsaw Ghetto and the "Black Ghetto" in Chicago, and I just can't take it seriously: the term is pretty much meaningless without qualification.

Alright I'm short tempered and I apologize to the thread. But if I offer something I and it's not for you then pass on by. You don't need to be reactive-like me I'm fully aware that OL isn't for everyone-I even said that in a post here.

I'm also not too keen on smugness and posturing which I think I can detect a mile off (well sometimes).

That opens up a can of worms about SL that I've avoided confronting directly since I've been in SL.

Others have discussed it very well here in this thread and it's this dividing people up here into higher versus lower less than versus better than. It must be the result of our psyches (which the ancients seemed to understood better than moderns do) but there is a lot of dismissing people based on whether they're verified or what they do. How many nonsexworker jobs do you think are available in world for that matter? When I started here I camped a lot and then I found out what an underclass campers were/are, but they are just people and not bad at all. They did get a lot of abuse from griefers and the la-dee-da's here. So the "upper" class does have something in common with griefers they both know how to abuse-they just do it in different ways.

As with SL the time for me has probably come to move on from this forum topic.
Sometimes to bring something new into ones life one needs to let go of the old.
I'm not looking back and that includes this thread-bye & good luck! (click)

No, that picture was from the "ghetto".

Etymology

The term 'ghetto' was originally used to refer to the Venetian Ghetto in Venice, Italy where Jews were forced to live. The word "ghetto" actually comes from the word "getto" or "gheto", which means slag in Venetian, and was used in this sense in a reference to a foundry where slag was stored located on the same island as the area of Jewish confinement.[2] An alternative etymology is from Italian borghetto, diminutive of borgo ‘borough’. [3]

The corresponding German term was Judengasse (lit. Jew's Lane) known as the Jewish Quarter.

And you think I'm doing that? I've been arguing AGAINST the idea that the unverified should be an underclass since, well, before there were such a thing as unverifieds... because I could see it coming.

Hell, Za-Rex

^V^

The term is still diluted to the point of meaninglessness. People say "Science Fiction is a ghetto" or more generally "Genre is a ghetto" in literature. What does that mean? That genre writers are an ethnic group? There's similar "artistic ghettos" in every medium. Is there any mention of that in Wikipedia?

Well, I have a problem with them not having announced it in-world. My problems stems from the fact that they are supposedly 'gathering feedback" from their residents for the last couple *months*, and hardly *any* of the residents *know*!.

If you're going to say things like "We're going to open this up for resident input" then you damn well better *tell* the residents that their input is sought, and let them know how to submit it!

LL hasn't done this, doesn't intend to do this, and *does* intend to keep spinning this as some sort of resident driven process.

That is also unacceptable, at least in my book.

^V^

ahhh so you're saying that if a word becomes misused we should no longer use it in the correct setting? An interesting view and certainly not one I've ever come across before.

I think the problem is you present the question as "Can I have this in OL" and give a picture.

The default answer would be "I don't see why not", because you can build the same stuff in OL that you can here (sans some of the scripting).

Your question isn't specific enough; it should be "Can I have these things made by SL creators?". Even then, if you really want *that* specific content, you can contact the creators and let them know of your desire to obtain their content in OL. Some of them may already be there. Others *might* be tempted to go there, especially after another train wreck or two in SL.

The problem is one endemic to the persistence of online worlds. In the future, there WILL be more choices than SL; more are opening up every day. In the future, you may be drawn to a new one, and away from SL. There, you will have to (re-)obtain content that you like, just as you did in SL. As such, the question isn't simply one of "can I get *THESE* things in <insert virtual world here>?", but "can I get similar or better stuff that I like there?".

I think it is the same kind of question that someone would ask coming from Habbo Hotel to SL. If you want Habbo Hotel-looking stuff in SL, well, I guess you could make it, or have someone make it for you, but why?

If OL evolves into something superior and significantly different from SL, why would that question even be pertinent?

I also think that there is a difference between those who opt for a non-adult business model, and those who are *hostile* and castigate those who *don't*.

People who simply want to run a non-"adult" business, I can understand.

Those who wish everyone *else* to run non-"adult" businesses because of whatever reason, and believe that they have have some kind of *right* to dictate to everyone else? Them, I *don't* understand, and won't patronize.

^V^

LL are following their tried and true procedures for eliciting customer feedback right or wrong, but just how many thousands have people have come into these threads, hurled abuse and left. They've certainly not hung around to provide any meaningful, rational feedback.

You can try to paint me into whatever corner you like. TBH I don't care. I at least can see what these guys are trying to do and whether I agree with it or not this is the way it is.

If the majority of the long term users of SL were really bothered then they would periodically check the blogs at a minimum because that is the way LL announces changes. They don't, if LL use that to their advantage it doesn't say a lot about the company ethics, but they're well within their rights to do it that way.

Stamping your foot over things you can't change whilst ignoring the things you can isn't rational to me either.. feel free to be insulted.

Ah, in our days it is a metaphor. We can also say box or container, if ghetto is waking up too much assoziations... - but hehehe, it would be grotesque if we start now to censoring ourselfs while we talk about censorship...

I think ghetto is ok for Ursula. The position on the map gives that impression. Alcatraz is a good word too. Gulag is even ok. Penal colony. Atlantis with brothels and bars. Whatever

I think we are bored, because no Linden is there to be a correct target for our fangs.

Jira is at 2947 in this second! Here in Austria it is 9:10 pm. If we reach 3000 today, it was a good day. And has not Blondin said he has an office hour tomorrow or so?

Step by step...

There are several of us working on the wiki but anyone is welcome to come over and add stuff to the wiki, even Blondin asked Daniel to put a link to the word list there in a JIRA so maybe if more people came and help on it, it will start to become a resource center, not just for Adult stuff but other things as well.

We even have a page for Index and links to items which are filtered within SL. You are welcome to create your own user pages and put your adult businesses on them. This wiki is not being run for profit and we do not expect financial contributions for the running of it as it is part of an on going SL project and because of this we put the wiki in place for others here to use.

All we ask is that you stick to the facts that is all and we are happy for both sides of the argument to post there, as always respect is the watchword

An entirely valid point- and another indication that LL is trying to market this the wrong way-





Sounds to me like a "g" rated setting that keeps the bulk of SL out of your hair, combined with a validation setting that lets you into the rest of SL would help fix this.

Let the employer control the account creation process, and then for the duration of the training, allow the employers to set the access controls- Employees would only get to "leave the island" during non-training hours for example, or only be able to access certain types of content with their *corporate* avatar, but would be free to create their own on their own time. Companies could create a "stable" of training AV's which they could issue to each new "class" of trainees in turn. LL gets the steady income of a corporate account, and the corp gets a ready-made in-world presence on an as-needed basis.

It would be a matter of creating a "corporate account" category of both land (keeps people out that you don't want in) and Avatar (Keeps people in, when you don't want them out).

Neither of these require picking up all the porn and moving it to it's own continent.
and it would also conceivably allow content creators to hire themselves out for custom builds, avatars, uniforms, etc.

^V^

Maybe the Bragg guy who is a lawyer will represent people here However until LL has published their final guidelines and it is set in stone, all of us both sides of the fence do not really know what will be happening next, so we will have to wait and see before anyone can decide what action could possibly be taken imho

You're both right. I'm taking a stand on my interpretation of what LL is saying. We disagree because they are being very obtuse and it's very much open to interpretation. I hope we can agree on that.

Going back to the original reason we started talking about whether it was a business or not: since they are being obtuse, opaque, and generally cryptic, dismissing people's concerns because "they're not a business" is callous, careless, and just plain mistaken.

Actually, in the Bragg case, the judge said that such a TOS agreement was too one-sided to qualify as a valid contract. LL was *not* protected by it. That's the whole point.

And why would a lawyer tell me to stop discussing legal issues in a forum? I'm not a lawyer, and I'm expressing my opinion that selling someone something, and then changing it into something fundamentally different *after* you have their money is, on the face of it, *fraud*.

The TOS doesn't protect LL from this. Had they made an in-world announcement, had they suspended land sales, had they even put a disclaimer in the land store, or "buy land" tabs, it would be different.

They haven't done those things. they want to make the changes without facing the logical consequences of those changes, and so their business plan is to deceive their users until the changes are a fait accompli. Perhaps they believe that they are meeting the bare minimum requirements of the law by posting this stuff on a single blog, or a couple of consecutive forum threads, but that's not enough when the overwhelming majority of users don't look at anything but the log-in screen and information.

When LL has a new release client, or a viewer update, or something that they *want* residents to know about, do they release it on the *blog*? No, they use the log-in screen.

That's *wrong*, Kalderi. That's the sort of thing that the *police* visit you for, not merely civil court summons stuff.

Anyway, That's my opinion as an interested observer of the legal issues surrounding SL and virtual worlds. The Areas of the law that deal with this are getting less and less nebulous all the time, and there has been at least one real-world ruling against LL about their TOS and their use of it as a blunt weapon.

Maybe there will be more. Especially if LL refuses to protect themselves by making a full disclosure of this godawful plan to their residents.

^V^