The sensible thing that LL could do here, to alleviate this issue somewhat would be to flag all alts of a verified main as verified. They know who my alts are.
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Argent Stonecutter
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05-05-2009 18:26
The sensible thing that LL could do here, to alleviate this issue somewhat would be to flag all alts of a verified main as verified. They know who my alts are. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
Argent Stonecutter
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05-05-2009 18:28
You have the chat log from the person I talked to in OL (see post #585) and you can buy a whole island in OL for the price you'd pay for a chunk of ghetto in SL. ![]() _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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05-05-2009 18:30
I see there's 20 more posts, so here's my general reply. Read the plan, read the facts. It's not hard to understand. Stop taking it personal, it's not. LL knows you're mad, but That has never stopped them before. For people who are taking about being treated with respect and being open minded, I see a lot of close-mindedness, and disrespect. Ursula is not a Ghetto, it's not a Concentration camp, all of that is in your head. In a world where we have no place, It's a place we can call our own. Its a home, and I do not shy away from it, I embrace it, as something precious. People talking about how there's 80% npiofs, yes those are all the millions of inactive accounts which will never return. Most of the active people have payment info on file, don't fall for the red herring. You can call me what you will, but I'm determined to make it through this, and make sure my customers and those I care about make it through too. I want everyone to. But I can't take you there, you have to do it yourself. Yelling in a forum never solved or accomplished anything. Decisive Action and understanding do. But it has to be the right action, for the right reasons. A lot of people are afraid to speak up about their agreement for fear of being labeled 'sellout' or what have you, just as I have been. But I'm more than willing to take up the mantle for their cause, and fight for them, as I have been. Someone has to. There is no shame in giving a little ground in the name of peace. Keep throwing artillery and there will be none. Your idea to try to hire new staff for the sinking Titanic, instead to try to avoid that the ship is sinking, is amusing. But ok, your role in this is legitimate. Every catastrophy has to offer its clownesque protagonists as side notes. The takeaways for marketers: •Listen carefully. If you target connected customers, have a mechanism in place to collect feedback before taking major actions (product changes, new product launches, etc.). Don't act in a vacuum. Use social media to engage customers and solicit their feedback. Then, make their input an important part of your strategy. •Be ready to act. Social networks and many Web 2.0 tools make it very easy for people to assemble around a cause. Major brands should have a rapid action plan in place to identify and address these situations before they get out of hand. In the old world, this was called public relations or crisis communications. In a new, networked world, it's good community relations. •Respect the community. What I wrote in an earlier column about five best practices for marketers who venture into social networking still applies: "Respect the Community. It's a club and you don't really belong. Most social networks aren't about advertising or commerce per se... As an advertiser you're a guest in the club. Understand the environment and respect the unwritten rules: don't intrude on conversations or connections in a way that irritates members; don't divert users from the network to other sites; and don't disguise yourself in a dishonest way." If this advice doesn't resonate with you, close your eyes and imagine this scenario: You've just spent six months developing a new campaign for a major new product launch that's a line extension in a very popular, somewhat dated product line. You and your management team have high hopes for this product. You need to invigorate the product line and generate a big bump in sales. You've carefully researched the product and launch strategy. The focus group results indicate you'd add new customers without alienating your core franchise. You launch. Within a week of launch, 126 groups have formed, all calling for a boycott because you spoiled the product with this line extension. The revolt started in the U.S. and is now moving to Europe. Angry customers are filling your inbox with hate mail. Your boss calls and asks what the heck's going on, how significant the damage could be, and what you're doing to respond. You tell him you're going to change the campaign messaging and heavy up on PR. Then, you realize that strategy won't fly. These people want answers and action -- now. You have hours. Not weeks. So, this is what we do: we measure Linden Research, Inc. on this. He wrote that big mouthed statement before he was CEO at LL. Now he can show, how honest it was meant. End of signal. Maybe you start to meditate a bit over his sentences. Edit add: the link: http://www.clickz.com/3623393 |
Darien Caldwell
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05-05-2009 18:54
Your idea to try to hire new staff for the sinking Titanic, instead to try to avoid that the ship is sinking, is amusing. But ok, your role in this is legitimate. Every catastrophy has to offer its clownesque protagonists as side notes. So, this is what we do: we measure Linden Research, Inc. on this. He wrote that big mouthed statement before he was CEO at LL. Now he can show, how honest it was meant. End of signal. Maybe you start to meditate a bit over his sentences. Edit add: the link: http://www.clickz.com/3623393 Something must be lost in translation, because I don't get what you mean at all. ![]() ![]() And I'm quite familiar with Mark's words there, as you say it's pretty old stuff. I think he's doing pretty much that so far. They certainly are engaging the community, the bazillion posts and Blondin's attentive, although selective posts certainly attest to that. The various brown bags were a little contrived, but did provide a lot of information. They certainly never let residents listen in on a press event before. I can tell you LL hasn't put this much effort into listening to it's customers in the 2 1/2 years I've been here. And you can say that's sad perhaps, but it's true. I would give them an A for trying, however we're not even around the first turn of this. There's a long way to go. _____________________
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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05-05-2009 18:58
For the first and last time I am actually going to ask for a bear. Just don't ask me what I'm going to do with it ![]() Beside Blondin's cuddly representance in your care taking arms: are you interested in a M Linden bear too? I have bears from the CEO (transfer). |
Brenda Connolly
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05-05-2009 19:05
Your idea to try to hire new staff for the sinking Titanic, instead to try to avoid that the ship is sinking, is amusing. It sounds more to me like she is saying it's too late to avoid the iceberg, and the passengers who aren't getting into the lifeboats should try and help the crew salvage the vessel. I think there is a lot of truth in the posts Darien has been making, I agree with a lot of them. She's been very eloquent and brave in making them I enjoyed the venting and Linden bashing as much as anyone, but it is time for constructive thinking to try to get LL to see that at the very least, their plan is far from completed or even workable as it stands. This is not a pesonal moral crusade on LL's part. It is a calculated business strategy. They feel a certain type of customer will be more profitable to them, and are doing what they feel is necessary in tailoring the product to that group. I think they are wrong, and are alienating their profit base, but they are going forward no mater what. Maybe, once the damage is done, they will ask some of you to at least help steer the ship. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
Argent Stonecutter
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05-05-2009 19:12
She's been very eloquent and brave in making them I enjoyed the venting and Linden bashing as much as anyone, but it is time for constructive thinking to try to get LL to see that at the very least, their plan is far from completed or even workable as it stands. _____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/
"And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore |
Tormented Twilight
#1 Cheese Lover
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Posts: 103
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05-05-2009 19:13
According to the blog, it has been pulled because it tripped virus scanners. Also, it crashes instantly at startup on machines using comma as the decimal point rather than dot. (You can work around that by changing your system settings, though that could mess up other programs). What's that word that describes something that's somehow comical and tragic at the same time, something-ony? _____________________
SteamJunk, HoboJunk, SpaceJunk, FreeJunk n' more!
News, Online Store, Blog n' more: www.tinyurl.com/junkworld Shop on XSL now: www.tinyurl.com/tormy ![]() |
Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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05-05-2009 19:16
Having sex is adult content if it's "public". 1. There are many homes in SL that have neither walls nor a roof. Are you honestly going to say that the G-Team will not treat these builds as "public", whether they're listed in search or not? Especially when Blondin has said that a nude beach with sex balls is Adult. 2. If some G-Team member thinks "being listed in search" means "public", then the fact that the build looks like a private house isn't going to stop them: there are many public builds that look just like private homes. These builds have been discussed, and looking like a house won't keep them from having to move to Ursula. And: for example - dutch people have traditional no curtains and no blinds at their windows and there are also some extraordinaire well designed modern builds in game wich have no tinting by default just for design reasons, modern living, whatever. It is kind of style to have such homes in RL too. Some people don't care and like to live relative open, as a statement for themselfs and as a statement of architecture. You know, kind of Farnsworth House styles, with more windows than walls. Open beach buildings with no windows and no walls, etc. These would be now targets of the G-team and hobby abuse reporters. |
Wynochee LeShelle
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Join date: 3 Feb 2007
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05-05-2009 19:19
What's that word that describes something that's somehow comical and tragic at the same time, something-ony? -tragicomical- is the official word, it is also since new a synonyme for a specific company. |
Hanspeter Gelles
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What is the G-team?
05-05-2009 19:23
What is the G-team?
Hans. |
Brenda Connolly
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05-05-2009 19:27
They are like the A team, but with lesser known actors.
_____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
Wynochee LeShelle
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Join date: 3 Feb 2007
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05-05-2009 19:28
What is the G-team? Hans. Kind of police. They follow abuse reports by residents if someone acts against the community standards and sometimes they act spontaneous if they find something TOS-violating by accident. It is ok that such a team exists, but sometimes they give impressions about to be not well briefed with a tend to overreactions in some cases. Well, like any police on globe. Sometimes nice, sometimes bad. |
Hanspeter Gelles
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Join date: 28 Dec 2008
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G-team
05-05-2009 19:33
Kind of police. They follow abuse reports by residents if someone acts against the community standards and sometimes they act spontaneous if they find something TOS-violating by accident. It is ok that such a team exists, but sometimes they give impressions about to be not well briefed with a tend to overreactions in some cases. Well, like any police on globe. Sometimes nice, sometimes bad. OK Well i got castigated earlier for drawing a comparison with ... erm ... some historical event. But this is frankly awful: the idea that the community as whole, we report each other to the police for wrong-doing and then some team of police (are these G-team members actually Lindens or just other residents who happen to be particularly nasty?) investigate us further. The whole idea so disgusts me ..... I don't want to leave this game. I love SL. But really this G-team concept is all wrong. I have one question about it: does it really exist or are we dreaming it up. Can you point me to an official statement from the Lindens about the G-team and the rules by which it operates? thanks Hans. |
Brenda Connolly
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05-05-2009 19:38
No, they really exist.They are Lindens. And there is nothing wrong with them in theory. Someone needs to respond to co,plaints and enforece guidelines. The problem is the Gsters have a tendency to shoot first and not ask any questions and are inconsistent in their decisions.
_____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
Katheryne Helendale
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05-05-2009 19:44
So it's counter-productive to challenge bad ideas and bad thinking, I should simply go along with this particular herd. That's probably the saddest thing I've ever read. _____________________
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut. Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world. |
Hanspeter Gelles
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Join date: 28 Dec 2008
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05-05-2009 19:45
Kind of police. They follow abuse reports by residents if someone acts against the community standards and sometimes they act spontaneous if they find something TOS-violating by accident. It is ok that such a team exists, but sometimes they give impressions about to be not well briefed with a tend to overreactions in some cases. Well, like any police on globe. Sometimes nice, sometimes bad. Just to add another couple of words: of course i agree there should be a way to report abuse. But here in this blog we are talking about reporting adult behaviour which is a normal human activity: that's what i cannot fathom. In fact we don't really seem to have any clear statement of what is wrong and what is right anymore: unlike RL where there is a legislature and a judiciary here there seems only to be a policing policy. With no guidelines as to what is legitimate. Or at least the guidelines I have read about seem to be nonsensical. The policing policy seems to largely consist of an unworkable system for fiddling about with how search works which will probably result in it being impossible to search for things. But if this G-team really exists i think it is rather sinister. Particularly for ordinary residents like me who are not being encouraged to move to Ursula: therefore i honestly feel like i am going to be abandoned on a mainland police state when these impending changes come in. Presumably surrounded by people who are not verified, not interest in behaving like adults, and happy with a crippled search engine which omits half the English words in the dictionary. Also this is causing mayhem in-world. All sorts of organisations are simply folding up and dying. Ursula apparently isn't ready yet and by the time it is there won't be any adults left who want to move there imao. Well i know people will say i am over-reacting but that is how i feel. Hans. |
Katheryne Helendale
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05-05-2009 20:00
Actually there's a big difference. NPIOF don't have any lindens. The ones that do, and are as you say people keeping their lives private, it's their 'main' that has PIOF, and give them the lindens. So that only strengthens the assertion that most have PIOF, since a lot of these NPIOF are backed by a PIOF main. I can agree though, it does weaken the ability to keep one's various second lives seperate. But it's still possible even with the new adult initiative. NPIOF - No Payment Info on File: Has never entered valid payment data to Linden Labs. Has never purchased lindens or any other Linden service. Is still fully capable of earning enough in-world to accomplish things. PIOF - Payment Info on File: Has entered valid payment data to Linden Labs. Has never purchased lindens or any other Linden service. Is still fully capable of earning enough in-world to accomplish things. PIU - Payment Info Used: Has entered valid payment data to Linden Labs and has used that information to purchase lindens or other Linden services. Note: PIOF and PIU does not necessarily mean that the payment info is current or currently valid. It ONLY means that the user had entered validated data at some point of time and, in the case of PIU, has used it at least once. If you have short-changed any NPIOFs based on your ill-conceived notion that they have no money, then you have done yourself - and them - a grave disservice. You want to know if an NPIOF has any vested interest in their second life existence, then take a good look at the person's profile. _____________________
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut. Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world. |
Valentine Young
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 37
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pivot point
05-05-2009 20:03
The takeaways for marketers: •Listen carefully. If you target connected customers, have a mechanism in place to collect feedback before taking major actions .... Then, make their input an important part of your strategy. •Be ready to act.... it's good community relations. •Respect the community....don't disguise yourself in a dishonest way." You've just spent six months developing a new campaign for a major new product launch that's a line extension in a very popular, somewhat dated product line. You and your management team have high hopes for this product. You need to invigorate the product line and generate a big bump in sales. You've carefully researched the product and launch strategy. The focus group results indicate you'd add new customers without alienating your core franchise. You launch. Within a week of launch, 126 groups have formed, all calling for a boycott because you spoiled the product with this line extension. The revolt started in the U.S. and is now moving to Europe. Angry customers are filling your inbox with hate mail. Your boss calls and asks what the heck's going on, how significant the damage could be, and what you're doing to respond. You tell him you're going to change the campaign messaging and heavy up on PR. Then, you realize that strategy won't fly. These people want answers and action -- now. You have hours. Not weeks. http://www.clickz.com/3623393 He wrote that big mouthed statement before he was CEO at LL. Now he can show, how honest it was meant. End of signal. Maybe you start to meditate a bit over his sentences. Wow, so many possibilities: 1) The pressure to implement is from Mark Kingdon's bosses, LL's board of directors. 2) Mark Kingdon, is conducting a live social experiment, to prove or disprove his theses above. 3) Mark Kingdon's staff are following orders to the letter, in an attempt to oust the CEO. To bad, SL residents have been constrained within SL blogs, failed to use email and direct phone calls. The right to anonymity versus ability to voice a protest. The pivot point. |
Katheryne Helendale
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05-05-2009 20:05
There are always exceptions, I agree. I probably should have said "they don't have the ability to buy any lindens". That would have been more along my actual intent. _____________________
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut. Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world. |
Hanspeter Gelles
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Join date: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 36
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Isn't SL supposed to be 18+ ?
05-05-2009 20:09
As i understand it SL is supposed to be an 18+ game. In this way it is not like RL. In real there are people of all ages obviously. But in real if i go to an 18+ cinema or an 18+ bar i don't expect to discover it has two sections: one for verified people who can see the nude scenes in the film and have a drink and another safe section for non-verified people where they are positioned in such a way they can't see the film or drink anything.
It looks to me as though LL created an 18+ game then realised that a lot of people who are attracted to an 18+ game are thinking 18+ = porn = alcohol = fun. But LL has realised that there are other people out there who don't want to do porn etc but who will do business or educational work of other kinds. I have no objection to that vision. Why not? If LL made a success of it then maybe they could make loads of money. Good luck to them! [Although i would say for people really interested in education in a serious way, there would be a need for a grid that allowed under 18s as well as over 18s and so completely off SL: it should be a new grid, like SL.edu.] But why oh why does LL have to turn the world upside down and create mayhem for the people who are here now in order to create the world for the future new style residents. Why on SL couldn't Ursula have been the new PG world. Im so frustrated by this. I love the game but it's like we're being told, "The game you like is changing now to one you didn't ask for and didn't pay for. This is so that other people who are not currently playing and don't currently want to play will start playing." What kind of business dumps on its current customer base like that? It doesn't make sense. Hans. |
Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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05-05-2009 20:12
Just to add another couple of words: of course i agree there should be a way to report abuse. But here in this blog we are talking about reporting adult behaviour which is a normal human activity: that's what i cannot fathom. In fact we don't really seem to have any clear statement of what is wrong and what is right anymore: unlike RL where there is a legislature and a judiciary here there seems only to be a policing policy. With no guidelines as to what is legitimate. Or at least the guidelines I have read about seem to be nonsensical. The policing policy seems to largely consist of an unworkable system for fiddling about with how search works which will probably result in it being impossible to search for things. But if this G-team really exists i think it is rather sinister. Particularly for ordinary residents like me who are not being encouraged to move to Ursula: therefore i honestly feel like i am going to be abandoned on a mainland police state when these impending changes come in. Presumably surrounded by people who are not verified, not interest in behaving like adults, and happy with a crippled search engine which omits half the English words in the dictionary. Also this is causing mayhem in-world. All sorts of organisations are simply folding up and dying. Ursula apparently isn't ready yet and by the time it is there won't be any adults left who want to move there imao. Well i know people will say i am over-reacting but that is how i feel. Hans. Yes, Brenda answered your question perfect. I think the G in the term G-team stands for Governance. They are Linden employees. I was never confronted with the G-team so I cannot say much about them. There is a web-page hmm, I need to search, ah here: http://secondlife.com/support/incidentreport.php there you can see some excerpts of results as a list of daily abuse reports and what LL decided. It can happen that the provided tools we landowner have - like ejecting, banning, are not enough to avoid griefers. If someone crashes your sim frequently with some scripts and tricks it is maybe not too bad to have a Linden to help to identify and to eliminate the problem... Or if a neighbors item hangs to much into your land and you cannot move it back, than it is ok, if a Linden can help. So, there are much good reasons to have staff wich can take action if needed and reasonable. But beside this: all in all I understand your point of view. Me was grown up in kind of anarchy family, hehehe ![]() I am not a fan of overdriven rules and arbitrarily decisions. As much experienced posters said: it seems they often shooting first and asking later. Since Ursula is on the table I agree with Argent Stonecutters point of view: we can expect an increase of abuse reports by residents and following reactions by the ominous G-team... However: nothing than problems on horizon for us customers. |
Shambolic Walkenberg
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Join date: 24 May 2008
Posts: 152
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05-05-2009 20:16
Even that would be untrue. There *are* private Linden exchanges out there. I have not used one myself, but I know they exist. Until a few months ago I bought L$ through the Anshe Chung (sp?) website till I got round to using what was slx. I'm NPIOF, own a small parcel on a private estate (which may or may not be effected by this ludicrous plan), and have put real money into the system through needing to upload textures for my build, buy furniture etc. And if LL hadn't bought slx then I'd still be unverfified in every way (and I'm yet to be convinced the slx/ xlstreet side of things will actually work when trying to reach "adult content" ![]() So yeah, there are ways of buying L$ that don't mean going through LL, and I'm less than impressed with the elitist attitude of certain posters on this thread when it comes to NPIOF being somehow second class and unworthy for consideration. |
Hanspeter Gelles
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 36
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05-05-2009 20:25
........ I'm less than impressed with the elitist attitude of certain posters on this thread when it comes to NPIOF being somehow second class and unworthy for consideration. I much sympathise. But for me at least i value some reassurance that the people i meet in SL really are 18+. Of course that said, the verification procedures in use don't seem to be particularly robust. Hans. |
Maleena Tiraxibar
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 32
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They need to fix..
05-05-2009 20:29
The verification system before any of this can work, me and a few others ahve no end of problems being verieified by the SL scanners even though we are verified both age and payment wise.
I'm still not happy with this, however I dont really have anything more to say. I have said all I can on this matter, i'm scared that a lot of my hangouts will be shutting up and vanishing forever, I am scared that SL could be killed by moves like this, for now who knows. So I will settle for a hug and cookies, lol. |