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RC Questions

Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
05-05-2009 15:23
From: Blondin Linden
2) There is going to be another in-world Brown Bag on the definitions sometime in the next week.

It would be extremely cool if this brown bag were open.

And please send one of those Blondin Bondage bears my way! Thanks!
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
05-05-2009 15:25
From: Ciaran Laval
The less people inconvenienced the better, the way it's panning out people who have no interest in adult content whatsoever are getting dragged into the net.
My position, of course, is exactly the opposite: The more people who are affected, the better for everyone who is affected.

For example, those educational institutions who are willing to operate on non-Adult sims: they'd best not claim anything about "academic freedom" ever again, the spineless hypocrites.
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
05-05-2009 15:27
From: Brenda Connolly
You mean Nany is one of the millions of unheard voices she hears in her head?

Probably more than one.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
05-05-2009 15:30
From: Milla Janick
It would be extremely cool if this brown bag were open.


Why? You plan on being sick? :p

Can I have a BBB too?
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.

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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
05-05-2009 15:40
I wanted to rescue this from oblivion, so I've created a blog post to capture the details here: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/possible-avenues-for-real-life-redress-if-linden-labs-new-policy-adversely-affects-you/?

From: GreenKnight Kaul
I know this is suppose to be about the new viewer and rules but feel this needs to be reiterated.

Here is a list of links to help contact the proper authorities to pursue the possible criminal actions of Linden Labs. They have not, as of yet, set things in motion to file complaints in most jurisdictions. But the longer they postpone informing the masses, the more people they victimize. Once again, TOS is not a license to commit fraud.

Federal Trade Commission USA
http://www.ftc.gov/index.shtml

eConsumer.gov, international database to file a complaint, maintained by FTC. Also contains links to participating countries consumer protection authorities.
http://www.econsumer.gov/

Internet Crime Complaint Center
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

Federal Trade Commission, U.S.A.,
International agencies with cooperations agreements with the FTC.
http://www.ftc.gov/oia/agreements.shtm

ICPN, International Consumer Protection and Enforcement Network
http://www.icpen.org/about.htm
http://www.icpen.org/news.htm


I just checked land auctions and direct land sales, still nothing. Interesting behaviour for such a "HUGE" change.

interesting articles:
Better Business Bureau give SecondLife an F
http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/video-games-wholesale-and-manufacturers/linden-lab-in-san-francisco-ca-57373#govtaction

http://www.businessinsider.com/better-business-bureau-gives-second-life-an-f-2009-2

http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2009/02/better-business-bureau-flunks-linden-linden-says-grade-is-outdated.html

Why Reuters left SecondLife
http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/11/why-reuters-left-second-life-and-how-linden-lab-can-fix-it
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Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55
XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc
Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/
Vivienne Schell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 85
Zillions of potential Brown Bags
05-05-2009 15:41
Makes no sense to discuss with some people who are listening to some mysterious "voices" (called "survey" or "feedback" - whatever this is) that they should mess up with their existing (and paying) customers - because of all these "millions" of "potential" customers, who never paid a dime, never created a prim and never contributed anything but "voices" to SL so far.

Apart from that i doubt that there actually are "millions" of "potential" folks out there who are willing to pay the price for the latest high end systems which would enable them to lag around on a sim with more than 30 avatars assembled on.

Pfft..brown bag. What for?
Gracie Goldflake
Registered User
Join date: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 4
If it's legal to do it...it should be legal to advertise it.
05-05-2009 16:17
My suggestion via notecard to both Blondin and Jack is that if something is "legal", or allowed, on a certain level of land, one should be able to place a "legal", or allowed, classified ad for it using real words.

On mature land, where my tenants will be "LEGALLY" having sex on a SexGen (yes, a real one, from Strokerz) bed, in the privacy of their own home, I should be allowed to advertise that I offer that.

On mature land, I understand that I will NOT be allowed to hold or advertise an event that says "come-naked, beach party with a plethora of provided SexGen equipment."

And for all who whither at the word "sex", they could be, as many have suggested, given the ability to see no words on the Big Nasty List in their search returns.

Small service and content providers need the right to use "adult" words in ads for allowed activites on their mature land.
Da5id Weatherwax
Registered User
Join date: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 90
05-05-2009 16:28
From: Couldbe Yue
For the first and last time I am actually going to ask for a bear. Just don't ask me what I'm going to do with it ;)


To the protest toy with it! :)
Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
05-05-2009 16:36
From: Ann Otoole
I'm not quoting anyone but there are a very large number of NPIOF accounts out there making content and are very productive members of the community. If you do not want their money or think their money is somehow tainted then I heartily invite you to prove it by setting your land access accordingly. I will happily embrace them at my store anytime.
There is nothing wrong with NPIOF accounts *now*. When the Adult Content rules come into force, the NPIOFs become a problem.
From: someone
Also if you are so certain adult flagging will not affect your business then flag your sim adult right now and stop selling anywhere except in your adult flagged region. I.e.; prove it.

(I don't expect anyone to take this challenge since it is suicide ... obviously...)
Unfortunately there's no way to do it early on the Mainland. For the past month or so I've tried as best I can, restricting my smut parcels to Age Verified Only. That excludes accounts with payment info; I could have done it the other way around, but it has to be one or the other: there's no way to set a parcel to allow either or both, the way Adult regions will work.

But even the more restrictive Age Verified Only on a parcel isn't that effective. The damned things have actually been selling stuff, which mystified me until I happened to see a shopper make a purchase: she bought by camming inside the smut shack while standing on an unrestricted parcel. (This will presumably also work across Estate sim boundaries, so one will still be able to buy Adult content from the convenience of PG land. :rolleyes: )
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
05-05-2009 16:38
/me again fails to understand why they're doing this age crap at the same time as everything else. There's like 3 related-but-independent subprojects that they're doing at once - I think I'd be happier if they did one at a time instead of trying to crap it all down our throats at once.
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Snickers Snook
Odd Princess - Trout 7.3
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 746
05-05-2009 16:44
From: Darien Caldwell
I'll assume you skipped over my correction by accident :)
Yes. Open compose window while you posted your correction I think. :)
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Snickers Snook
Odd Princess - Trout 7.3
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 746
05-05-2009 16:47
From: Qie Niangao
For example, those educational institutions who are willing to operate on non-Adult sims: they'd best not claim anything about "academic freedom" ever again, the spineless hypocrites.
AR them!!!
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Kathrine Jansma
Registered User
Join date: 25 May 2008
Posts: 20
05-05-2009 17:02
From: Darien Caldwell
Actually there's a big difference. NPIOF don't have any lindens. The ones that do, and are as you say people keeping their lives private, it's their 'main' that has PIOF, and give them the lindens.


Hi Darien,

just wonder how i managed to buy stuff from your vendors in that case..., NPIOF on file for nearly two years (just changed it to see how hard it would be, trivial with a verified PayPal account, at least the fear that it would be as crappy as the rest of the plan wasn't true). Your stuff is great work btw..

So, you may be right in a statistical sense that 95% of the NPIOFs are dormant or bots anyway and have no lindens for that reason, but your wrong to assume the active NPIOFs do not have any lindens or just from their 'main' alts. I get only minor royalities for one thing on sale, but still, it accumulates faster than i can buy new shoes in SL...

I sometimes have the impression you might have driven into the LL offices in RL and been replaced secretly by some alt bot that now takes over Blondins job ;-)

Maybe i just don't like the sound of "The battle is a lost cause, get over it and make the best of it, it has some minor benefits if you search with a microscope", even if that might be close to the truth and i see it paraphrased in many of your comments here.

[Edit]: Read your correction. Still wrong, there are more places than lindex to buy lindens with RL currency, and even more options to buy lindens with inworld labour of some kind.
Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
05-05-2009 17:12
From: Blondin Linden
3) We're re-evaluating some of the flagged words. I think you'll be (relatively all things considered) happy.


So does that mean ladyboy is being taken off of the list?
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Those Lindening Lindens!

'O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
Never shalt we define thee.
Our users think that means no lagging,
But we say they want no shagging.
O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
We love you null expression.'
Phoenix Nohkan
Dangerous when annoyed
Join date: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 45
sorry you're worng
05-05-2009 17:19
From: Lord Sullivan
That is correct sex is only allowed on private islands when i was there last not on mainland.


I meant to reply to both you and the post you were quoting-I can't do multiple quotes it seems.

I've been in OL-talked to a business owner there who also has over a year in OL (Everyone I met there has been in SL btw)

There are lots of opinions but just like in SL the residents don't always know what's actually true.

According to the business owner I talked to there is an adult club on the mainland-I have the chat log and I asked for permission to give that out which she said yes to. Everything is possible there according to her and I felt reasonable comfortable that she was understanding my questions and knowledgeable about OL.

Having said that OL has it's problems (think SL a couple of years ago) and although there are regular updates and a very active forum I wouldn't want to pretend that OL is a utopia with no problems. What is though?
Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
05-05-2009 17:19
From: Thorn Witrial
Re: BROWN BAG -- it can't just be in voice. It can't. It's not accessible to people who can't hear. PLEASE get someone to realize this. No, I'm not deaf, but I know people who are and they are being excluded. Also, I don't have a working mic, so I can't respond even if I can hear.


Strongly seconds that! There is not any real reason *not* to use text. Does anyone there know about the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)?

There is also the problem that people at work usually can not participate in a voice discussion, but might be able to in a text discussion.
_____________________
Those Lindening Lindens!

'O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
Never shalt we define thee.
Our users think that means no lagging,
But we say they want no shagging.
O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
We love you null expression.'
Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
05-05-2009 17:22
From: Ann Otoole
The objective is one million concurrency. That means routinely having one million residents online at any given time on average.
I think I would rather have my hands held and my fingernails forcibly dragged across a large, dirty chalkboard for all eternity than deal with the kind of lag a one-million concurrency is sure to bring. :eek:
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From: Debra Himmel
Of course, its all just another conspiracy, and I'm a conspiracy nut.

Need a high-quality custom or pre-fab home? Please check out my XStreetSL Marketplace at http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=231434/ or IM me in-world.
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
05-05-2009 17:23
From: Kathrine Jansma
So, you may be right in a statistical sense that 95% of the NPIOFs are dormant or bots anyway and have no lindens for that reason, but your wrong to assume the active NPIOFs do not have any lindens or just from their 'main' alts. I get only minor royalities for one thing on sale, but still, it accumulates faster than i can buy new shoes in SL...

Even if 95% of NPIOF users are dormant or bots (and 100% of PIOF/PIU users are active) that's still nearly 30% of SL users that are NPIOF. It's a significant number no matter how you cut it, and anyone with a financial interest in SL should take note of it.
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All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
05-05-2009 17:34
From: Milla Janick
Even if 95% of NPIOF users are dormant or bots (and 100% of PIOF/PIU users are active) that's still nearly 30% of SL users that are NPIOF. It's a significant number no matter how you cut it, and anyone with a financial interest in SL should take note of it.


The sensible thing that LL could do here, to alleviate this issue somewhat would be to flag all alts of a verified main as verified. They know who my alts are.
Phoenix Nohkan
Dangerous when annoyed
Join date: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 45
Adult is OK in OL
05-05-2009 17:38
From: Lasher Oh
Oh dear! looks like destiny is wander in the wilderness for the next 40 years looking for a safe sane and consensual haven ;-(


You have the chat log from the person I talked to in OL (see post #585) and you can buy a whole island in OL for the price you'd pay for a chunk of ghetto in SL.
Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
05-05-2009 17:39
From: Ciaran Laval
The sensible thing that LL could do here, to alleviate this issue somewhat would be to flag all alts of a verified main as verified. They know who my alts are.


Would you tell them to settle their bar tabs then?
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.

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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
05-05-2009 17:46
From: Brenda Connolly
Would you tell them to settle thier bar tabs then?


They're all grown up, that's between them and the bar manager!
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
05-05-2009 18:00
From: Kathrine Jansma
Hi Darien,

just wonder how i managed to buy stuff from your vendors in that case..., NPIOF on file for nearly two years (just changed it to see how hard it would be, trivial with a verified PayPal account, at least the fear that it would be as crappy as the rest of the plan wasn't true). Your stuff is great work btw..

So, you may be right in a statistical sense that 95% of the NPIOFs are dormant or bots anyway and have no lindens for that reason, but your wrong to assume the active NPIOFs do not have any lindens or just from their 'main' alts. I get only minor royalities for one thing on sale, but still, it accumulates faster than i can buy new shoes in SL...

I sometimes have the impression you might have driven into the LL offices in RL and been replaced secretly by some alt bot that now takes over Blondins job ;-)

Maybe i just don't like the sound of "The battle is a lost cause, get over it and make the best of it, it has some minor benefits if you search with a microscope", even if that might be close to the truth and i see it paraphrased in many of your comments here.

[Edit]: Read your correction. Still wrong, there are more places than lindex to buy lindens with RL currency, and even more options to buy lindens with inworld labour of some kind.


I fully expected a lot of flack for that statement. It's an easy target to hone in on and not keep in mind the spirit of what is being said. There are no absolutes, there's always exceptions. And I did get a little education about Linden buying today. But I think it's good to read Qie's post a page back, there's some wisdom to be garnered there.

/352/1d/318980/24.html#post2417797

I did nearly go, but Blondin finally answered my question, the pressure must have been immense to illicit an actual response. Too bad for them, I would have brought donuts. :p

But no, I'm just trying to help people realize there are options, and to not think things are lost.
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Deltango Vale
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Paradigm Shift (draft)
05-05-2009 18:08
There is a famous paper by the economic historian Paul David called "The Dynamo and the Computer" in which he reflects upon the conceptual lagtime for the implementation of new inventions. A brief description can be found at . I believe the same problem afflicts Linden Lab concerning their strategy for Second Life.

When factories were first built with steam-powered engines, the factory was literally built around the engine. This was done because machinery was connected to the engine by leather drive-belts. When the electric engine was invented, factory owners removed the steam engine, installed an electric engine and hooked up the drive belts again. It took 30 years before factory owners realized that electric engines were an entirely different type of engine - that factories could be built flat with machinery reconfigured laterally. Eventually, many small engines replaced one big engine and electric cable replaced belts and pulleys, but it took 30 years!

Linden Lab created not simply a virtual world, they created a metaphorical world of user-generated content within a free-market property rights structure. Second Life is not a platform; it is a new country. Residents and entrepreneurs were not attracted by the platform - the platform was crude - they were attracted by the country. They didn't play Second Life; they immigrated to Second Life.

Linden Lab is essentially an engineering firm. It is understandable, therefore, that they seek to improve the technological infrastructure of Second Life. Unfortunately, as they do improve the platform, it further binds Linden Lab to the old paradigm and blinds Linden Lab to the new paradigm. The resulting strategy is to optimize the platform for conferencing and educational purposes - to make SL a better IT system.

While the current 'adult' policy makes sense for an IT platform catering to RL political and educational organizations, it is anathema to Second Life the country. By plugging an electric engine into an old factory, Linden Lab is not only squandering the full potential of Second Life but alienating those residents and entrepreneurs who are 30 years ahead of the technology.
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
05-05-2009 18:20
From: Deltango Vale
There is a famous paper by the economic historian Paul David called "The Dynamo and the Computer" in which he reflects upon the conceptual lagtime for the implementation of new inventions. A brief description can be found at . I believe the same problem afflicts Linden Lab concerning their strategy for Second Life.

When factories were first built with steam-powered engines, the factory was literally built around the engine. This was done because machinery was connected to the engine by leather drive-belts. When the electric engine was invented, factory owners removed the steam engine, installed an electric engine and hooked up the drive belts again. It took 30 years before factory owners realized that electric engines were an entirely different type of engine - that factories could be built flat with machinery reconfigured laterally. Eventually, many small engines replaced one big engine and electric cable replaced belts and pulleys, but it took 30 years!

Linden Lab created not simply a virtual world, they created a metaphorical world of user-generated content within a free-market property rights structure. Second Life is not a platform; it is a new country. Residents and entrepreneurs were not attracted by the platform - the platform was crude - they were attracted by the country. They didn't play Second Life; they immigrated to Second Life.

Linden Lab is essentially an engineering firm. It is understandable, therefore, that they seek to improve the technological infrastructure of Second Life. Unfortunately, as they do improve the platform, it further binds Linden Lab to the old paradigm and blinds Linden Lab to the new paradigm. The resulting strategy is to optimize the platform for conferencing and educational purposes - to make SL a better IT system.

While the current 'adult' policy makes sense for an IT platform catering to RL political and educational organizations, it is anathema to Second Life the country. By plugging an electric engine into an old factory, Linden Lab is not only squandering the full potential of Second Life but alienating those residents and entrepreneurs who are 30 years ahead of the technology.


Agreed to a point. I did enjoy Second Life for the very reasons you cite, because to me it was the better world I, and many had been waiting for. A world without discrimination, a world of enlightened people with enlightened ideas, where the physical gave way to the intellectual. Howver, I"ve been through the cycle that many have been before me, and many will in the future experience. And that is where you eventually realize SL is not that magical place you thought it was. It's still tied to the Real World. It's not a country. It can't make it's own laws, or wage war on the soil it sits on.

While it may not be able to live up to the lofty, idealistic standard that many place upon it when first finding it, it *does* serve a very important purpose. Even if so very brief, it does give one a taste of what such a world would be like, and that hunger will never leave you. You will take it with you, long after you leave Second Life, and for some it will drive them to make the Real World live up to this standard. And you cannot say the world won't become a better place because of it. You will be changed and for the better, and learn a thing or two about yourself as well.

Of course I could be wrong. :)
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