RC Questions

Not that many, you're assuming ALL of them want access to adult content.

But it's more than "2-4%", in any case.

They are affected, whether they realize it or not, or whether they are content with that or not.

Right, but it would be a big mistake to conclude that this means a 35-45% reduction in revenue for Adult-sited businesses. A "big mistake" in two senses:

First, it would be an incorrect conclusion to draw from the numbers. At the simplest level, we don't know that anything like 40% of the L$s are spent by the 40% of customers who are NPIOF. And even if we did know that, those 40% never before had any particular reason to get payment info on file. The new policy changes that.

And that leads to the second way in which such a conclusion would be a big mistake: it would lead merchants to do things that make the situation worse, by failing to reinforce the strong incentive for everyone to get payment info on file. We've seen plenty of posts on these threads from merchants eager to scheme some way to stay sub-Adult in order to preserve those precious NPIOFs. That's just gutless greed; those are the folks who really should be ashamed of themselves.

Once this is all over, I fully intend to never spend another L$ on products or services offered from non-Adult land; the merchants catering to NPIOF stragglers may find their rewards rather less than they'd hoped.

I agree that will happen if the filtered list gets too big. In real life, it's common for strip clubs to have signs like "Live Girls", which is both true, non-adult, and gets the idea across.

For that matter, the term "Escort" developed as a cover for "Prostitute".

My suggestions for cover words:

Dancers (Strippers)
Girls (Female sex workers)
Toys (Sexual, fetish, and bondage gear)
Adult Furniture (sex furniture)

(Though at present there are still lots of synonyms not on the list)

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Note: Blondin has removed all the attachments to JIRA issues I put up with the current known filtered list EVEN FROM THE ISSUE THEY SET UP FOR REPORTING INCORRECTLY ADDED WORDS. (SVC-4149 Meta Issue for Adult content keyword filter refinement)

Think about that - How the F**k can you talk about fixing the filter if you cant list whats *in* the filter? "Please take X out", "Sorry, post deleted for using adult word, JIRA must be PG".

Hey, great idea - Make an open source viewer that when you do "Search/ALL", pulls results directly from google (which is not filtered). Call it the "AdultSL viewer" Wish I had the coding skills to do that, but hopefully someone else will set it up.

(That will not help with teleporting, just search)

Or just put payment information on file for your account.

There's a potential problem for LL in making the list too big. It'll force people who don't want to access true adult content to use the adult search for Mature content, and they'll end up getting the adult stuff they didn't want to see in the first place.

LOL i think they are using the list on the SLapt wiki did you see Blondins post to you SVC-4149?

What is non-viable about this?

Allow mainland sim landowners to petition to change their sim to Adult. If a reasonable majority of the sim land area requests it (say 75%), then change the rating.

If private estates will be allowed to put Adult sims next to non-adult sims, why not mainland?

Then we won't have as many problems moving things, and people who like to have unrestricted possibilities for their land will still have that.

A couple have changed to adult. the adult rating might be better described as "no griefers" rating.

Using the 1.23 rc viewer you could search for adult land and there are a few listings already. So it is already happening.

They wouldn't accept that unless the entire continent went Adult. The whole reason for making a separate "Adult Continent" is to make it impossible to cam across sim borders and see extreme stuff or buy from adult merchants.

Why on private extates and not on Mainland? Because on Private Estates, it isn't LL's liability on the line when someone complains about XXX Hardcore next dor to their PG residential parcel. When your question was asked earlier, as "Why is it OK for the Dreamland sims to have an Adult sim right next door to other ratings, when we can't do that on the mainland?", the LL reply was "Because Dreamland is owned by Anshe Chung.".

If someone disables camera constraints to cam into something awful from the next region, they deserve whatever they get.

Just to play devil's advocate on that, if the businesses are on mature land, wouldn't they be open to being AR'd? They would still be advertizing adult services on non-adult land.

That concern does not apply to all merchants, mind, those selling adult skins or other 'non-restricted' items furniture or toys deemed ok for sale on mature land for instance, but would apply to someone trying to run a strip club or brothel off adult land.

Part of the point is to get people into the correct zoning, but if this is anything like RL, a big part of the rules are simply to get adult activity off the street and out of public view. Because of the inability for most walls to stop cameras, that is trickier in SL and is deemed to require stronger zoning limits, but conceptually it is the same as in RL.

And yes I know there are areas in RL that are less restricted in where they place things, er, restricted. Unfortunatey or fortunately (depending on your point of view), it is problematic to expect the world to conform to the least restrictive jurisdictions in any given industry.

And adult shops can still advertize as 'adult.' They just are limited in the details (or services) they provide outside of Ursula.

Personally I think hiding the keywords and simply ensuring that the display descriptions are 'clean' would have been the better route than the current censoring. Among other things it would mean the Lindens would not have to continually struggle to maintain 'the list.'

It's more complicated than that. Think of the case of Textures 'R Us, who have long banned NPIOF avs from their sim in case they're copybots or something. Why on earth, other than to make a point, should they flag as "Adult"? Or a hair shop or something?

As I mentioned on the other thread,where several people said their experience is similar, a friend who sells a lot on XLStreet -- where, of course, almost all the shoppers will qualify to get into Adult land if they want to -- tells me that when she pays for front page exposure for her products, she gets hits in the thousands for the ones that are visible in general search and in the low hundreds for pretty similar ones listed in "mature" (we're talking animations and MLPV2 furniture).

Since her in-world sales figures certainly don't suggest her mature-rated products are in less demand than are her pg-rated ones, she concludes that a lot of people probably don't bother to turn on "mature" when browsing XLStreet unless they're looking for something they think is likely to be thus flagged.

In consequence, she has big reservations about moving the whole show to Adult land (which was my original suggestion to her) because she fears that she'll lose a lot of potential customers for stuff that could safely be sold and advertised as mature because they won't see it, having decided that they don't want to turn on "adult" search even though they could, because they aren't in the market for hard-core porn and, mistakenly, think that's all they'll find there.

You don't have to disable camera constraints to accidentally cam into SOMETHING NASTY IN THE WOODSHED across a region boundary.

I think this will definitely happen, and its a good use of stats to show how this might be so.

I'll say it again. Nothing LL can do will prevent people from attending LL office hours with the "naked life" viewer with potentially embarrassing results unless LL closes the source code and forces use of the closed source viewer. Even then I'm sure some perv with lots of free coding time will find a way to circumvent the clothes in the video memory somehow.

So actually the only way for LL to have a safe area with no embarrassments is a G grid with a G viewer that is not open source and no avatars allowed in with any anatomically correct aspects whatsoever.

You know... All the same arguments LL has flung in our face about the ripping of content applies to their noble effort at being nannies. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life

I added a section under Criticism and controversy for adult content, and referenced the blog post. Please feel free to add other main issues and references to the page, but keep it factual and not rants, in keeping with general Wikipedia policy.

(This is *definitely* controversial, and since openspaces rates a mention, I think this does also)

2796 votes on the JIRA so far.

No.

I said the problem with expanding the filtered words list too far will be that people will have to use the Adult search to find Mature items.

Don't cam into woodsheds.

Seriously, how often does that actually happen?

Besides, If the woodshed isn't advertised, it can still be in a mature region. I don't believe the amount of accidental pron encounters an adult continent will prevent over being able to flag mainland parcels as Adult can possibly be significant.

You have heard of chat distance I suppose.

Also, a percentage of people )not sure what percentage) that do these sorts of thing, don't make the choice to keep it on their own proerty, for whatever reason.

PG next to Mature is already a mess I wish The Lab would address. Adding random Adult land into the mix, would make matters worse.

But as far as items which one would want to use adult words to describe, aren't there non-offensive euphamisms which are unlikely to be censored? Such as 'adult', which is used to describe such goods in most RL advertising of such products?

Past a certain point, censoring words becomes unneccessary, since it becomes progressively harder for adult service providers (the businesses which are being moved to Ursula) to find words that their customers will think to use. It becomes in their best interests to move to the new continent simply because their client base will have progressively more difficulty finding them.

Compounding that, more people who are not looking for those services will find them accidentally, since in hiding the true nature of their operations, they will get traffic not wanting to be there. Those are the people who could AR, and that risk means more incentive to move.

Thus there is likely an upper limit to the expansion of the list.

Limit chat to the current parcel. That would serve the dual purpose of preventing shouting objects from annoying everyone within a hundred meters. I see a lot more people complaining about yelling from dance clubs than about overhearing crappy sexual roleplay.

Besides, camming, not chat, was the specific reason given for needing an adult continent.

XstreetSL--and SLexchange before it--have always insisted on forgetting the Mature search preference, at least for me, despite being told to remember it. If others have that experience, it may have something to do with those results. (The same would obtain in-world if they don't fix the maturity-preference-forgetting bug.)
Yes, but you understand that by pandering to the sub-Adult customers, she's making more of them, thereby exacerbating the problems this creates for others. She can choose to do that, and maybe she'll get more business, maybe not. But she won't get my business.

As I mentioned in another thread, my plan at the moment is to offer no-transfer products on Mature land together with prominent alerts to the customers that the very same items are available for half price or less on Adult land--all they need to do is get Adult-qualified. Other creators can do something similar or not, but if they choose to stay in the easy comfort of their sub-Adult sims, they've lost the moral high ground should they ever find reason to complain about anything else.

The same goes for educationals, non-profits, and corporations. If all this effort is going to please them, they ought to have the intestinal fortitude to put themselves on Adult land, too.

I agree - the sound and chat moving from Mature to PG is an issue. Fortunately it's easily avoided. Sound can be stopped at the parcel border simply by setting a checkbox restricting sound to parcel, and the good interactive chat can be done via IM. All that's necessary is to explain to people when they are "overheard" how to avoid it. There _may_ be complications for renters having access to the controls - I am not sure about that. And it doesn't fix that folks can cam in and watch. These are some of the reasons why LL's current approach is doomed to failure from the start.

The only way you'll have a place where you can't cam in and see virtual bits banging away is by having a place where all the sex is banned absolutely. And the only way you'll create that is by putting it where nobody currently lives and making that place the new entry area into SL. Trying to sanitize the current mainland will be quite impossible without losing nearly all of your landowners in the process.