Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

5% of 5000 is 250. it'll be a squeeze but if they're initial calculations are correct this is all they need.

Logic:
SL main grid is for 18+, no underage allowed
PG = parental guidance for immature audience

What does this leave PG land?

No one is allowed, above or below 18.

Without a definition of adult content (given the wildly conflicting answers from Lindens, they don't have one) any figures probably aren't very useful.

The hell I can't. I transfer money from PayPal to XStreet and buy from the uncensored list all the time.

And you know what? If LL can shoot themselves in the foot over this, so can I. I'm damn well GOING to write to PayPal. For one thing, I don't agree with their "no adult content" policy, and if they choose to lose my business by enforcing it on LL, it serves both of them right.

I guess what I was trying to convey in reply is that your metaphore is the kind that can shut down discussion, or at least lead to it being taken less seriously. Even to the extent that it is true, the 'jailers' are at least making a show of negotiations, which is more than most jailers do.

My concern is that if LL ever do become fixated on 100% screening being impossible, or worse, that the public becomes fixated on that, that everything that you all are trying to protect could be tossed out entirely.

Sometimes you need to sacrifice some freedoms to preserve those freedoms you most cherish.

If PG land is for adults, but not under-age, why not call it IMMATURE land?

That will not cause any confusion to the general public to invite the under-age to play in SL?

That will make the term MATURE clear.

ADULT land
MATURE land
IMMATURE land

Except you will lose their business too. You will be shooting yourself in the foot over principles.

Better transparency would be good. The fact that they are not willing to release the basis for their 2-4% is troubling, and likely the biggest cause of dissention.

Jack's position could plausably support those numbers, but Blondin's version is unlikely to be anywhere near that low.

Lindal, this is in my opinion one of the most intelligent things that has been said in this whole discussion for a while.

All of the hyperbole about "rights" and "discrimination" and "segregation" along with suggestions for a PG continent and "privacy pockets" are going to go nowhere with LL. They have a business model that they are trying to implement and are making changes in SL to bring it more in line with that business model.

The only way, in my mind that LL would be persuaded not to go through with this is to prove to them that this change will not succeed. We don't have enough information to do that, because we don't know LL's long-term goals for SL. We can draw our own conclusions, though.

My guess would be that they are more than willing to support "Adult" businesses - it's a revenue generator for them - they will publicise it and it could easily be a flourishing business for the business owners too. I think they are so intent on doing this that they will take the gamble that, in spite of the bluster, most business owners will come back to SL and run a successful business, because there's nothing else out there.... and those they lose, well, maybe those are acceptable losses.

/me bites her lip..

Thanks.. Thought of it very soon after Cyn's initial announcement but, as angry as I am at the way this is being handled, I don't want to hurt SL or even LL..

We seem to tell LL over and over that they'll piss us off LESS if they treat us like customers they care about instead of like a bunch of kids who should just shut up and do as they're told.

What would have made me far less angry at LL is if there had been an actual discussion about this stuff instead of just throwing it over the wall at us then being surprised when we exploded. Is there anyone here that could not have seen that coming? Anyone?

LL, I don't understand how your plan is going to prevent any kids, any at all, from getting into areas that they should not be in. It's not fair (and, IMO, downright dishonest) for you to tell people that you're protecting kids by doing this or that adult content providers should in any way feel safer that their content is only being used by RL adults. It's also horribly unfair to many of your residents that you're inflicting so much pain for what seems to be zero result.

Lindal, I'd much rather see some press discussing this issue: what the problem is; what, if anything, can be done about it; what's been done in the past and how well it worked; what adult content providers should be thinking about; stuff like that - stuff that adults do when they've got a problem that needs fixing or at least looking at. You are, of course, free to ask payment providers if this plan of LLs is acceptable to them or say anything you want to them - I'm still hoping for an actual discussion, though.

I think so, yes. But if "account verification" is the goal, what is all the hubbub ABOUT?

We've pointed out over and over the obvious...that everyone here is, or is supposed to be, an adult, capable of making their own decisions. So what is the purpose of "account verification"...or even of "age verification"?

We've also pointed out that using PayPal or a credit card is not proof of age. So again, what is the point of that?

The majority of SL accounts are NPIOF. A lot of those are bots, and don't matter. The rest are the ones who really stand to lose in all this, because they will lose access to a large portion of SL's content...and it is content that, for many of them, is the only reason they come here in the first place.

If LL's intent is to get rid of NPIOFs, why didn't they take the easy, honest, and straightforward road: Get rid of free accounts, except for an initial trial period? Their biggest competitor, WoW, does that.

IF and when its my turn to do a land swap and LL's tries to force me taking a same plot size in the same sims as other clubs, I simply won't do it. Two clubs will not make it on the same sims. Impossible!!

On the mainland it works. Sure we have to comply and be nice with our neighbors, no shouts etc but it works. It puts divisions between all the adult clubs. We try to give other land owners around us a separation of garden and forest space even.

I can meet Lindens half way on this, I can be told I have to move and do so. But I won't be forced to take land swap plots next door to another club, nor will I swap land beside the mafia head quarters either. Nor will I remain beside a newbie club offering free sex. Non of this will work. The mix on the mainland grid works. They are forcing all Adult activities all in one small continent without a buffer between them is simply a complete downfall.

Their 5% adult is a low number and we know it. My move would entail 1/2 a sims, thats my clothing business too and my garden which isn't considered adult at all. Was this in their overall thoughts, or just my brothel? Why would I leave behind my garden or my clothing, furniture store? Did they really believe I would separate my business?

Stand alone Adult entertainment doesn't always pay the bills, you put beside a club a clothing store, rentals, a cuddle garden, ballroom dancing, girls, events including all those business' DOES.

How many here only own an adult club and nothing more? does it completely work alone without another investment or two?

It's plain and simple LL's didn't plan this through well. No, not just my adult business plans on moving...its all that I own. It works together, not alone.

PG means "I am able to refrain from violence, cursing and I am willing to leave my sexual lifestyle at the door for the time I visit this place". Every mature person should be able to do that. SL is about diversity. Sex has its place and time, and so do other activities.

/me quotes Cyn...


Though she may say "account verification" instead of "age verification" she's clearly talking about keeping kids out..

From https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/03/12/upcoming-changes-for-adult-content

This does not answer the question. Let's say you have 4 adult clubs, each with 1/4 of a sim, each of which attracts 30 to 40 avatars most of the time. They are currently in 4 seperate sims, nowhere near any other busy venues. The surrounding Mainland near them now is Linden protected waterways or roads, or is low-use residential parcels. If you force those 4 sims all to go into the SAME NEW SIM in Ursula, that sim will get lagged to death, with a demand for 120 to 160 avatars at a time that can not possibly be met, and all that club gear fighting for script resources. Even if you place them in a 2 x 2 array of four sims, placing one club per sim, they will still be closer to each other after the move than they were beofre, and lag will be worse. And Gods help anyone forced to move their smaler business into the same sm as a club that regularly maxxes out a sim's avatar limits!

I'll grant you generally answered the question, but your answer leaves a gaping hole in people affected by this forced move, since you are applying it ONLY to people who OWN a mainland parcel, and who will move that parcel.

What about people who are only RENTING a mainland parcel, but who have to move? They have no mainland parcel of their own that they can offer to swap. If their landlord on the mainland refuses to pick up their parcel and move, with all their tenants, what happens to the people you dispossessed?

What about people who are on parcels on Private Island sims today, who rent a parcel and don't OWN the sim? Where do they go if their sim owner decides not to flag the whole sim as Adult? They will be in the same boat as the mainland rental tenants.

You are only taking care of a small part of the people you are forcing to relocate!

Did you read the question at all? Or is your answer really "We will do nothing about price gouging. The speculators will pay us for the land, and we don't care how badly they price gouge on what they pay for."?

The question was about land speculators and price gouging, AFTER you cater to the actual Mainland parcel owners who move. You know, the land that anyone who RENTS a parcel will have to BUY or RENT in Ursula from whatever speculators or enterprising new land barons scoop up the land that is left, as soon as individuals can buy there? In Nautilus, some land speculators were demanding L$500 per M2 for their land-flip parcels! And that was for a commodity that people could take it or leave it, not for land that is the ONLY option for an adult content user/merchant to stay in business.

Once again, DID YOU READ THAT QUESTION? DID YOU UNDERSTAND IT?

The first half of that question was about land speculation and price gouging. You completely blew that part off.


Eight questions, and on half of them you either completely failed to answer what was being asked, or ignored a major factor.

F Minus grade on Customer Service, Blondin.

Maybe this is why LL are creating so many sims on the new continent, so things CAN be spread out better....

ETA: Oops, I think I misread a previous post, sorry!

Prevention is impossible. It is impossible to protect from all harm without causing greater harm. Mitigation is very possible. Reducing risk is common practice, considered good practice, and age restrictions exist in all other venues for such content.

Mitigation is not zero result, either. Something does not have to be an ideal result to be a worthwhile result. The key word is 'safer.' Not 'absolutely 100% safe' but 'safer.' And that is a goal that society not only supports, but demands. Yes it inconveniences people, and yes it costs people profits, but that does not mean it is unreasonable.

Now that said, it still has to be implemented in a sane fashion, and it is not clear that is occurring. The goal is legitimate, but the concept of mitigation extends to mitigating the impact on those affected by the changes too.

So many?

253 is not enough.

There is another quote here somewhere that 250 is the starting point, but they expect to expand that to a couple thousand (paraphrasing from memory).

On the censored site you don't need to transfer the money in. you can actually buy items in usd with the paypal account - like you can anywhere else on the net.

only I don't suggest it. the way xsl is set up for this is a scam and actually reduces the price paid to the merchant by around 15% (and this is on top of the 5% commisssion we pay to XSL).

Why would they care about people who are renting? Or who are on private island sims? Neither of them pays tier to LL...the tier fees are paid by the people from whom they are renting. LL probably assumes that if they want to keep their adult content business they will either (a) buy a lot on Pornotopia or (b) rent a lot on Pornotopia from someone who owns a lot there. Otherwise, they will either cancel their rental or convert their adult business into something Mature or PG.

Yes, and age restrictions exist in SL too...you have to be 18+ to BE here!!!! THAT should be restriction enough LOL!

EDIT: Let's say they implement these changes - moving adult content to a separate continent and require age verification for anyone to visit there. Now six months down the line, they decide that the bouncer at the door (account creation) AND the bouncer at the inside door (adult continent age verification) isn't enough and that now each of us who has an adult place there has to start verifying people ourselves at the entrance to our individual places... How the hell many bouncers do there need to be?

So basically if I get this right...If we all jump for beach front property, it won't last. HAHA..lovely!

Oh, maybe just because if those renters stop paying their landlords, and the landlord can't make tier, that landlord folds too, or reduces their holdings, and therefore LL loses money?

Or maybe because those renters are PEOPLE that LL is forcing off their land by these mandated moves?

And I'll bet that the majority who rent now will NOT buy land in Ursula, because before they get a chance to even consider that, the speculators will buy all the available land and jack the prices to something like L$1,000 or more per M2?

Meh... As far as LL is concerned, they are all replacable cattle, I guess.

Exactly my point I think LL is banking on the fact that SL is indestructible.