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Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

Blue Linden
There For You
Join date: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,311
03-31-2009 11:27
Thank you very much for your ongoing feedback! We have closed the previous thread in order to compile and provide some answers to questions in the hopes that we can further the discussion. Please do feel free to join the conversation!
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Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
03-31-2009 11:31
Blondin or Blue...

do we have rough guidelines yet even if more firm definitions of adult are not decided yet so that gray areas can be deciding what needs to happen??

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Residents, please feel free to im me if you have posted a transcript of meetings, tools or events that need quick links posted. Just include the direct link to the post and I'll update this post to reflect. :)

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Links to posts, events etc:

New blog post: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/04/21/update--upcoming-changes-for-adult-content

new ratings: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

FAQ :https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6032

The Adult Continent Help thread - not discussion on topic of, but for help in planning and moving
/327/8c/316622/1.html

Adult Content Wiki Entry http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Adult_Content

Sindy's Traffic Scanner /54/6b/315213/1.html

From: someone

Originally Posted by Blondin Linden
Adult Oriented content controls: educator meeting transcript
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6284

Adult Oriented content controls: merchant meeting transcript
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6285

Adult Oriented content controls: landowner meeting transcript
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6286

Adult Oriented content controls: definitions meeting transcript
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6287





Community Events to discuss:
Blondin Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
03-31-2009 11:32
1. What are the specific new features we can expect to see implemented in Viewer 1.23? What is changing, and what do these features do?

Though Viewer 1.23 will have a variety of new features, specifics relating to adult content are that residents will be able to choose the maturity level of content they want to access. Search results and region access will be based on that preference. I think there is a whole lot more to Viewer 1.23 than this, though.


2. Is one of the changes an elimination of the parcel-level "Adult ID Verification Required" flag?

Not at this time. The changes are effected at the region level only.


3. What changes are implemented in Search in 1.23 to filter out naughty words? Is there a list of "Banned Words" that Residents can read? Or will we have to guess which word in our classified ad triggered the auto-censorship, like we have to guess now about what sequence of words triggers a 403 forbidden error in Forum posts, because of a hacked solution to filtering post content to disallow certain sequences of words that +*might*+ be an attempt at adding in a SQL command?

No filtering is yet happening. The list won't be publicly available -- it would make gaming it too easy, and we're trying to disincentivize gaming, so that the Adult initiative will have critical mass and enable better targeting of users, via customized search. But we are being careful to AVOID words that have non-AO usage, so no one will be surprised. In other words, you won't be filtered unless you're using VERY COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD "Adult" terms. Also, if you trigger a word in a classified or event, the error message will tell you what word caused the issue. You won't have to guess.

4. It's been said the 'adult' flag was an estate-level thing, which would mean that a 100-region estate with one adult parcel on one region would turn the whole 100-region estate 'adult'.

It's not estate-level. It's region level. There are three levels: estate, region, parcel. All parcels in a region that is marked as Adult would show up in search as Adult. However, not all regions in an estate must be adult.

5. How will having payment info on file will work as age verification. When we did the age-verification stuff a couple years ago, LL make it very clear that credit cards could not be used for age verification and some card companies (visa.com) still say this on their websites.

We are not merely collecting credit card numbers as a means of verifying age. We are requiring that accounts be in some way "verified" as a proxy for us to feel comfortable that Residents are appropriate for Adult access. This might be, for instance, an actual payment record (not merely presentation of a credit card), or it might be, alternatively, "age verified" status by our age verification vendor.

6. I've also read, from Blondin Linden, that something like a strip club would be adult. Then there's people quoting Jack Linden saying that it's the really extreme stuff like dismemberment and such. These are two very, very different things and you've left us all wondering where the line actually is.

This public discussion phase is critical in gathering opinions / feedback which will need to be factored into any decisions regarding adult definitions. This is to ensure a minimally disruptive and ultimately successful implementation and responses from the forums and direct feedback have already provided valuable insights in this regard. Once this is complete, we hope that we will have considered all possible scenarios before publicizing any official definitions.

7) When will search be in beta for them to test?

Search will be available when the Viewer RC comes out. Right now that's looking like late April, but please don't quote on that date. :)


8) When are we releasing details on the land swap?

We’re still a few months away from beginning any land swap related work, and we’ll introduce the program with ample opportunity for Residents to consider all their options. What we already know is 1) we are not charging for the move 2) we’ll ensure tier fees are not charged in the same period for the source and destination plots 3) we are sensitive to extenuating circumstances and understand that leeway will be needed for certain individuals. This will be judged on a case by case basis 4) We’ll also leave a pointer on the old mainland parcel(s) or a period of time after the move, so visitors following out dated bookmarks will be able to follow them to the new location.
Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
03-31-2009 11:33
Could we possibly add a bit of additional instruction on Newbie Islands?

"Second Life - it's not real, so stop acting like you are watching the news!"

Because clearly, some people don't comprehend that killing kittens or shooting my friends with a cannon in here is a VIDEOGAME, And that the kitten never existed, or that my friend I blew up just came over with some beer to bribe me for a copy of the cannon.
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
03-31-2009 11:35
Do you have any information on what the changes to the viewer in 1.23 will be, and how those changes will effect alternate viewers?


Will current alternate viewers still connect? Will they connect and be limited in functionality or will they need to be patched and recompiled?
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
03-31-2009 11:40
From: Blondin Linden
1. What are the specific new features we can expect to see implemented in Viewer 1.23? What is changing, and what do these features do?

Though Viewer 1.23 will have a variety of new features, specifics relating to adult content are that residents will be able to choose the maturity level of content they want to access. Search results and region access will be based on that preference. I think there is a whole lot more to Viewer 1.23 than this, though.

How will this effect current alternate viewers? Will they still be able to connect and function, or will they need to be patched and recompiled?

Can I haz UR bear?
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Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
03-31-2009 11:41
thanks for that :) very helpful

questions:

on verification. Many people have expressed concerns about not being able to verify for one reason or another. Others have concerns about the 3rd party system being used. What measures will be implemented to get people who want to verify but cannot or will not through a party they do not trust get verified?

Alts and verification. At this time I have a lot of alts, I was really having fun in some of the roleplay communities for a while and wanted different avatars to express those personalities. Are there plans to link alts to a main account so that we can verify all at once and consolidate information?

Thanks. :)
Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
03-31-2009 11:43
From: Shockwave Yareach
Could we possibly add a bit of additional instruction on Newbie Islands?

"Second Life - it's not real, so stop acting like you are watching the news!"

Because clearly, some people don't comprehend that killing kittens or shooting my friends with a cannon in here is a VIDEOGAME, And that the kitten never existed, or that my friend I blew up just came over with some beer to bribe me for a copy of the cannon.


just because that's your reality doesn't mean it's anyone else's.

I'm not so detatched from my reality that do I feel the need - even in a virtual world, to kill kittens or shoot my friends and tbh I don't see the point of what you do.

But, if you want to do it and don't make me witness it then I'm fine. Your problems with your life are exactly that - your own.

:)
Marx Dudek
Lipstick Thespian
Join date: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 17
03-31-2009 11:44
Regarding land swaps: What determines who gets beachfront property and who doesn't? I DJ for a club that has been in operation now for nearly two years - and profitably so. The club is in a skybox and the owner's private residence is on the ground level, on a beachfront parcel.

When he is moved, will he be offered a piece of land as equal as possible to the parcel he currently owns? Will location of the parcel to be moved be taken into question, or will people simply be moved on an as-available basis - even if that means being moved from beachfront land to a boxed in area on a landlocked region?

Oh, for reference, this is a male-strip club. The club has a central dancefloor where patrons may dance, and a semicircular stage in the front of the dancefloor where the dancers work. The dancers engage in stripping with full frontal male nudity. No sex is permitted to occur in the club (although some dancers may choose to work as escorts outside of the club environment if they wish). Think Chippendales.

In addition, I own a shop on a mainland sim. While most of my products are acceptable for even a PG environment, I am currently working on some products that would not be (beds with cuddles, sleeping, and sex animations. The advertising for these products promotes loving relationships and is done in a tasteful manner. If there is no explicit sexual artwork involved in the promotion of these products, will my shop still need to be moved to the adult continent?
Bambi Newall
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2008
Posts: 155
Definition please?
03-31-2009 11:44
Can you clarify what fantasy is from reality? in case if someone doesn't know what is right from wrong?
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
03-31-2009 11:45
From: Blondin Linden
No filtering is yet happening. The list won't be publicly available -- it would make gaming it too hard, and we're trying to disincentivize gaming,


Too easy you mean ;)
Bambi Newall
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2008
Posts: 155
IQ verification
03-31-2009 11:50
Is IQ also a requirement?

What is the minimum IQ to play in SL?
Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
03-31-2009 11:52
From: Couldbe Yue
just because that's your reality doesn't mean it's anyone else's.


Real: That having the property of actually existing. Your computer is real. Your fingers on your keyboard are real.

Virtual: That having the property of existing solely within the computer. Sonic the Hedgehog is virtual. You seeing me and my friends engaging in some consenting horseplay or sexplay or warplay or chess are virtual.

If you can't tell the difference between real and virtual, then videogames are a hellish place for you. So's TV, I imagine.
Matthew Dowd
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,046
03-31-2009 11:53
Can we not use the abbreviation AO for Adult Oriented. AO already has an accepted meaning with SL namely Animation Overrider.

Matthew
Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
03-31-2009 11:53
From: Blondin Linden
We are not merely collecting credit card numbers as a means of verifying age. We are requiring that accounts be in some way "verified" as a proxy for us to feel comfortable that Residents are appropriate for Adult access. This might be, for instance, an actual payment record (not merely presentation of a credit card), or it might be, alternatively, "age verified" status by our age verification vendor.
Blondin, you have made some great points here - I hope we can keep the message out there and avoid some of the extreme dis-information that is being thrown about. It would be nice if people gave you feedback on things actually said by LL rather than critiquing you on the speculation of others :)

One of the concerns that has been raised regularly is the idea of ONLY using Aristotle for verification. We heard originally that if payment information was available (in other words, the resident had a status of "Payment Info on File" that would do. You imply by what you just posted that that might not be enough, and that the resident must have made at least one payment (in other words "Payment Info Used" as a status, or whatever it's called).

Either way, as long as you are not relying solely on Aristotle, I think most of the criticisms on that front, at least, can be laid to rest.
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Marx Dudek
Lipstick Thespian
Join date: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 17
03-31-2009 11:54
From: Matthew Dowd
Can we not use the abbreviation AO for Adult Oriented. AO already has an accepted meaning with SL namely Animation Overrider.

Matthew


I nominate "AC" - Adult Content. Or "PA" - Patently Adult, with the accompanying understanding of the abbreviation as "Parental Advisory".
Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
03-31-2009 11:55
ooh, another question on keywords...

what happens to keywords that could be used for several adult AND mature uses.

example:

Clothing store.

Come browse our selection of SEXY and stylish clothing. Sure to make you look HOT. Show your SENSUAL side while staying covered. Fashions for every LADY



Sex Club:

HOT SEXY LADIES. Curvy SENSUAL vixens sure to delight



Maybe not the best example, but depending a lot of other businesses could get flagged. Especially when a word can be used to describe different things. Sexy clothes and sexy ladies, same word, different reasons to use that word. :)
Marx Dudek
Lipstick Thespian
Join date: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 17
03-31-2009 11:59
From: Phoenix Welles
ooh, another question on keywords...

what happens to keywords that could be used for several adult AND mature uses.

example:

Clothing store.

Come browse our selection of SEXY and stylish clothing. Sure to make you look HOT. Show your SENSUAL side while staying covered. Fashions for every LADY



Sex Club:

HOT SEXY LADIES. Curvy SENSUAL vixens sure to delight



Maybe not the best example, but depending a lot of other businesses could get flagged. Especially when a word can be used to describe different things. Sexy clothes and sexy ladies, same word, different reasons to use that word. :)


I would think that a general list of words would be the same as those that would be prohibited from being aired on American broadcast radio or television during daytime hours. Also, the description that you give gives a clear indication of the type of business that it is, without doing so tastelessly. Also, if the business is on an AC-region, I would think it would be blocked from a PG search, anyway.

I do concur there will be some grey areas. Not to mention the fact that there are some fetishes out there that, on the surface, involve otherwise G-rated material (women's feet in socks, leg casts, military uniforms, etc.)
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
03-31-2009 12:00
/me w00ts answers!! TY, Lindens!

From: Blondin Linden
5. How will having payment info on file will work as age verification. When we did the age-verification stuff a couple years ago, LL make it very clear that credit cards could not be used for age verification and some card companies (visa.com) still say this on their websites.

We are not merely collecting credit card numbers as a means of verifying age. We are requiring that accounts be in some way "verified" as a proxy for us to feel comfortable that Residents are appropriate for Adult access. This might be, for instance, an actual payment record (not merely presentation of a credit card), or it might be, alternatively, "age verified" status by our age verification vendor.

Ok.. I think we misunderstood something in the original announcement - I thought it was said that just having payment info on file would let you into Pornotopia.

Are you saying that Payment Info Used would be sufficient? If so, what about things like prepaid credit cards? I think just about anybody can pick one of those up at the corner market. If not, aren't our international friends back where they were 2 years ago?

Also, many here have suggested having an Adults-only continent *AND* a PG-only continent, not forcing anybody to move anywhere and letting the market (land supply/demand) determine how the mainland should grow. There's lots of pros to this and I've yet to hear any cons.. Any thoughts on this, LL?
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Bambi Newall
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2008
Posts: 155
Parental supervision????
03-31-2009 12:01
From: Marx Dudek
I nominate "AC" - Adult Content. Or "PA" - Patently Adult, with the accompanying understanding of the abbreviation as "Parental Advisory".

"Parental Advisory" huh? Do we need to ask our parents to play in SL?
That is additional requirement to prove your parent-child relationship to be verified by LL even if you are 100 years old.

What if you parents were dead already? Who will give you the Parental Advisory to have sex?
Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
03-31-2009 12:02
From: Bambi Newall
"Parental Advisory" huh? Do we need to ask our parents to play in SL?


I agree - AC for ADULT CONTENT is more apropos.
Karenjane Walworth
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 2
My thoughts on the debate so far..
03-31-2009 12:03
I have read a variety of posts on this change, many very distrustful.

I think many people have very valid concerns that the adult play they enjoy in SL is being marginalised at best, that the sector will decline as businesses and private islands are forced to choose between adult and maybe losing income from mainstream customers, or ditch adult content completely.
Others distrust verification as an intrusion into privacy.
I am a member of the adult community here and hope to continue to play as I have before and visit wonderful places, without horrendous lag killing the experience.

But...
We must all recognise that if SL does not continue to grow, it will not get better as there will be no money for development. And if it does not develop it will inevitably cease to exist as it becomes yesterday's technology.

I don't see how SL can grow, as it must, if new users are confronted with adult activity they have not opted into. It has that reputation out there. "SL equals cyber sex". At the moment anyone who has some mature land in SL can find an adult activity starting up next door. SL needs to appeal to everyone and provide the experience they need. And it has to lose its kinky sex tag if it is to become a channel for meetings conferences and new ways of working. So I think, whatever the short term pain, separation has to be right for the long term.

I also think that a scandal of underage children accessing adult areas and at worst, soneone being prosecuted under local legislation for corrupting a minor - maybe having their real life ruined - would be such a disaster that we have to have proper age verification. Players need to be as sure as they can be that they are not inadvertently playing with a minor and age verification protects us all.

However, those of us who engage in adult activity need LL to show us that we are valued customers and a sector that SL wishes to grow as it wishes other sectors to grow.

I do think the idea of a champion for the adult sector would be good within SL, someone who understands and experiences what we do. Indeed, champions for other sectors might be a good idea as well.

So LL - show us you want us, that we are valued customers and I hope to learn that you have managed to take our concerns on board. Please be responsive to the inevitable issues that will arise. If you aren't, we will see this world of adult play we love collapse and we and SL will be the poorer for it.
Marx Dudek
Lipstick Thespian
Join date: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 17
03-31-2009 12:04
From: Bambi Newall
"Parental Advisory" huh? Do we need to ask our parents to play in SL?
That is additional requirement to prove your parent-child relationship to be verified by LL even if you are 100 years old.

What if you parents were dead already? Who will give you the Parental Advisory to have sex?


You are overreacting to a suggestion made by myself to another poster *not* to use "AO" as an abbreviation for "Adults Only" as the abbreviation already is in common parlance in SL to mean "animation overrider". Blocking "AO" in searches would block nearly every animation shop on the grid from a PG search.

I was merely making the point that "PA" is already recognized to mean "explicit content".

Well, that and Pennsylvania. :)

[Edited to correct grammar because I think faster than I type, and hit "Submit" faster than I proofread.]
Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
03-31-2009 12:07
From: Karenjane Walworth

I do think the idea of a champion for the adult sector would be good within SL,


No, I'm Spurticus! :)

That probably flew right over lots of heads. Oh well.
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
03-31-2009 12:11
From: Karenjane Walworth
I do think the idea of a champion for the adult sector would be good within SL...

Naughty Linden?
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