Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

Thanks, so I didn't miss anything.

Of course yiff will have to be classified as adult. There is no question about that. But that still doesn't make a furry avatar per se adult.

You can't go there yet though. Although, I do see a green dot there.
BT

Although even mature could be problematic for child AV furries. Especially ones that live in plots on PG sims.

LOL You are right there.

Watch the price of coastal land go through the roof. LOL

Hm..

Cyn, a VP at LL and Jack's boss, says..

Do you think they're being up-front about what their goals are?

Do you feel like you're being given more controls and more choices? Do you think that this effort is going to prevent ANY underage people who are actively trying to get at naughty stuff, despite the "do not enter signs" that have been up for years, from getting in?

Will this improve SL for the majority?

edit: and what bugs me about this whole thing is that LL is _not_ asking these questions.

i remember last year with the great openspace rip off.
Lindens made a forum, most people objected to the plans, apart from a few that it didnt affect in the slightest, we all made our voices heard, LL "listened" then they changed the openspaces to homesteads and increased the tiers making homesteads the most expensive land to live on. most were abandoned 10 months after the openspaces were put on the market, my partner and i abandoned the last one we had in january, we never even had the chance to break even on it.
thats how LL listened to us last time.

we had a discussion on gambling before that, LL "listened" and gambling was banned.

can you see see a pattern emerging?
and do you think adult sims won't be next for a tier hike?
lets see...

Furry AV's only classed as mature not adult!!

You have to be f***ing joking, I find the concept of any person walking around pretending to be the offspring of a beastial relationship sick, repulsive, f**k me thats beyond extreme!

Have LL gone mad.

Blondin any chance of someone at LL addressing the issues of private regions. If a region refuses to turn adult the adult content business has to leave, will they get a free move to Ursula too?

Has anyone at LL considered the financial implications for regions who have to evict adult content business from their sims? I mean have you even factored this into the equation because it's likely that some sims are going to go under on the back of this, they'll either not raise enough money on tier or they'll merge two regions together to make up for the shortfall. That's a financial hit for them and it's a financial hit for LL.

Antros are not even mature, every heard of a minataur? it's offspring of a bull and a human, (or a cross of the 2, whatever) lycans? welcome to fantasy, if you don't like anthros, then just leave, we'll always be here.

I think after pages and pages of trhead postings (I have tried to read most of them myself), I think a couple things are clear:

1) The Sheer # of posting responses on this topic should tell the LINDENS that this is not some small, transparent, casual change in policies/deployments that they are imposing on their CUSTOMERS (remember Lindens - we are customers). And this is the volume of intense response with still a VAST MAJORITY of residents not even yet aware of LL's plans that they have on the SL world. Can you image if the LINDENS had the guts to place an announcement of this censorship initiative on the login splash page for all to clearly see and become aware of???

2) The content and intensity of the postings in this forum clearly should indicate to the LINDENS that this topic and censorship initiative that the LINDENS are planning to impose on our virtual world is of great concern to their CUSTOMERS!

3) From all the reading of the postings here, the LINDENS should clearly see that there is clearly an INTENSE LEANING of this planned censorship action to the NEGATIVE by us residents / LINDEN's CUSTOMERS! If, as the LINDENS has been stating, this move of theirs is to satisfy the greater demand of the residents of the grid, then where the heck is there even ONE posting in this thread that supports this policy??? The opinions here are not overwhelming toward not liking this move... ITS BASICALY UNINIMOUS that their idea makes absolutely no sense and will likely infuriate a large / if not the majority of their CUSTOMERS.

So if the LINDENS are going to forge ahead and impose this adult world censorship / segregation upon the residents of the Adult SL - despite the clear message they are getting from their customers that its wrong, not feasibly, and dangerous to the point of eroding their customer base, WHAT IS REALLY DRIVING THEM TO DO THIS?

Its clearly not for the reasons they have stated publicly in their announcements as those reasons are not logical. So then, is it because:

1) For cost reasons cutting reasons they can merge the teen and other grids into a common universal grid and remove the costs of running duplicate infrastructure to support multiple grids? If so, they will have to factor in the drop in operating costs with the risk of lost revenue and marketshare as several residents/customers will just throw up their hands and find more stable and reliable form of role playing / simulation entertainment.

2) A completely Naive and poorly executed customer market study that made them believe that the the vast majority of their customers wanted this and made a blind commitment to execute now - regardless of how wrong they clearly realized they were.

3) The LINDENS and LL is a company with some strong ultra-right leaning (possibly religious fundamentals) group that believes that their own morals must be extended to the company, products, services they offer to the world. As such, the opinions of their customers really has little relevance to their ultimate objectives which are MORALS based and not Business drivers based. Seems to me that based on what i am seeing here, this could be the hidden drivers of the LINDENS.

Unfortunately, all our screaming, yelling, posting, expressions of concern to try to talk common sense to the LINDENS will have little value. I even doubt that BLUE or any of the LINDENS are even reading many of these posts. They will throw a few bones to the residents on what they think are reasonable compromises, but I think we all know from past experiences..... once the LINDENS make up their mind, it really doesnt matter what we all want.

So all, get ready for the LINDENS dictated attempts at censorship and segregation to happen.

Toy

Of course it is

I remember that too - I wasnt inworld when gambling was tossed but I heard a lot about that as well.

I do see a pattern here, just as you do, even though the drivers for each change were different the common factor is that LL decided that it was not feasible to maintain the status quo. Here we are in the same position. LL have made a business decision that things must change. This means they will change. As I recall from the openspace debacle the vast majority of folks protesting that were arguing for leaving things as they were. Given the level of their investment into the product that was understandable but completely futile. LL were NEVER going to agree to that. Nor will they in this situation. Theres no benefit of doubt to be given in that regard because there is no doubt that change is coming.Where I am prepared to give the benefit of doubt is over exactly how that change will be implemented and if LL are prepared to be open and frank about their decision-making process that will restore at least a piece of trust and I say that as a business owner who WILL be impacted by those changes. That means it makes good business sense to show a measure of good faith from my side, even if I'm rather cynical in private

As a person that generally understand why this has to happen and could be considered a supporter, this morning's post by Blondin following on the heals of Jack's more tolerant views, makes me wonder if those within the Lab aren't even on the same page with what the goals actually are.

When considering my support back when this was first announced, there were two "deal breakers" in my mind ... letting this sink into confusion caused by political correctness, and massive mission creep.

So, where are we?

This started out as relocation of extreme and hard core pornography to an area designated to contain that sort of activity. Anyone that didn't think this would eventually have to happen as Second Life grew, is just not being realistic. Under that scenario, it was reasonable and managable ... a business, if they wished to stay in the mainstream, could remove/modify a few products, make a few search changes, and make things work for them. I work in the art department of a mid-sized beer company ... its the sort of thing those of us in the "sin'dustry" (alcohol, tobacco, firearms) face every day.

Then strip clubs were thrown in, and I looked the other way. I can't in a million years imagine how anyone could think a simple strip club would be considered extreme or hard core ... but, I saw what I wanted to see, I guess.

Now, we have a list given by Blondin of things that are mature but not adult, that is both thunderous in what is on the list, and thunderous by what is not.

Lingerie ... just by stating it, the mind leaps to the idea that skins will not make the list, etc, etc, etc ...

So, my two deal breakers have now been met, confusion and mission creep.

How do you respond to a request by a repressive government to disclose the names of those who access adult areas and, therefore, are at risk for prosecution as habitual sex offenders?

wait, so I've head that the 2 grids as of now are NOT going to merge yet, but what troubles me is that I cannot age-verify, I live in the US and it has been refused several times (I have tried, with my lisence) now wth? am I going to be locked out of any content I want to go to because of the age-verification system being screwed up? it clearly says 2/23/87 as my birthday on my liscence! (duh, I'm 22) so tell me how this is going to affect us? are we just SOL or is LL gonna do something about that?

All, literal all, what we are creating here and all what we are doing here is artificial and art.

Every single pixel and function.

If they try to touch that, they are moving themselfs into the very near of anti-democratic tendencies and totalitarism and fascism.

I declare all of my creations and my complete avatar(s) to art.

My art. Not their art.

18+ is the only moral-line I accept.

We are 18+

This means, we need no guidance, we are self-responsible.

Who feels not self-responsible should not enter the platform, but see a doctor or a custodian.

The job and function of the lab is, to provide a technical comfy platform and an excellent customer service for reasonable prices.

All other aspects are not their cup of coffee. They have no right to judge anything as non-art or wrong art, nor to restrict or to move it somewhere or to interprete it somehow.

Because this would be arbitraraly, private censorship.

We pay for the platform to be artists and not for their fake-moralism.

With that we do follow the slogan: our world and our imagination.

If they try to destroy that, we should not follow. May they go bankrupt then. Point.

Just to be sure we're all on the same page, I think the question was about the Picks tab on profiles, not about pix/pictures..

Picks to Adult places, as long as the image & text are not 'adult' will be allowed? How about if you're not 'verified'?

I hope this is sarcasm.

If it's not, then you'll be banning every children's book that has a talking animal in it. Better sue Disney and Warner Brothers too, for corrupting the minds of children.

IMO, if anyone looks at a furry or a Neko, and the first thought that comes to their mind is, "OMG, the offspring of a bestial union!", they need to have their head examined, because they, not the furry in question, are the sick one.

Still, I'm glad you posted this, because it's yet one more example, a very extreme one, of how one person can look at something and see evil and perversion, and another can look at the same thing and see only innocence and fun.

Well said.

It was obviously an off-the-cuff comment... it was clearly meant to read something like "no, furries, goreans, robots... whatever-else-the-mentioned... are not adult-only".

That is an Excellent question, Sam3. And one I have not even considered before. Moreover, what if the request comes from a state Attorney General instead of the minister of peepee control in Godlemeeouttahere? Will LL be keeping a log of who goes into what sim? Because if you do, I quit.

I apologize DEEPLY for this RIDICULOUSLY LONG REPLY. But I've been in SL for like, nearly half a decade, and it's time for me to speak up.

After seeing the last forum discussion go to something like, 300 pages, I wasn't too keen on adding my voice to the giant sea of opinions. But after reading a lot of other people's opinions, I'm going to throw in some of my observations.

I've been in Second Life since 2005. That's a pretty long time, in my humble opinion. I wasn't just sitting around for that time, either, I was out there doing nearly everything SL had to offer, so I've nearly "seen it all", as they say. I've even this "this" before. I remember every single time the Lindens have tried to "clean up" SL, both their successes (the times they listened and backed off) and their failures (I actually remember when LL closed these forums down, welcome back forums?).

First off, I want to comment on this little endeavor here. I'm actually not against what LL is trying to do here, as long as they don't let it turn into a witch-hunt, which it often does. What the Lindens need to do ASK themselves: Who are we helping/protecting by "going after" adult content? Is this not an adult grid? You people have been running a teen grid for kids for awhile now - so you can't just say "Oh, we're protecting minors.". It's an ADULT grid. So the people who are complaining to you, when they get offended at something, are in most cases, adults. Granted, they are offended, whining, malcontent adults. But adults, none-the-less.

On that point, y'know, I'm glad that Phase 1 of the Adult-plan or whatever-you-call-it is the redefinition of Community Standards. SL is slowly becoming a somewhat intolerant place. A business related AV accidentally walks away from the Dell sim and stumbles on a strip club, where he berates a strip club patron for their immorality. The patron pauses the argument to insult a furry who walks by, calling him "repulsive" (a word that someone a few posts up was quoted as using). So it's a good thing that the Lindens are going to step in and say <THIS> IS FINE, while <THAT> IS NOT. What we need to do. however, is make sure that this is done with some common sense. I got a little worried when CYN was somewhat happily quoted listing off the "stakeholders" of the consultations, like " educators, solution providers, land owners". Educators? Like...what do they care? They have their own educational sims... Why not include "peasants with torches and pitchforks" in your list... well...nevermind, actually, that category is covered by the forum users. lol...

...Basically, like, please be fair. Don't let the RL practice of special interest groups redefining society to suit their whims, grip SL. I only say this because, IN the PAST, most Linden decisions have been direct knee-jerk responses to complaints, posting final decisions in Blog threads and only allowing for "after-the-fact" raging from the Residents. Your Residents, us, the people who pay the bills and live here.

I won't comment on the searching/land tagging issues. We already have a button to include/not-include Mature content. The Linden plan only makes the button more advanced. I for one welcome ANY advancements to search lol.

That basically leaves me with 1) Relocation and 2) Verification. One VERY SERIOUS question for the Lindens: Since a huge part of Second Life is Mature already, and the MAJORITY (don't kid yourselves, we're in the majority) of SL avatars are accepting/using of adult areas... did you guys ever consider.... Moving the PG people? It's only fair, no? If you want to create some kind of hell-ish continent of adult doom (hey, I don't care if you do...less walking time for me), was there ever a plan considered to create a Utopia of PG Beauty? I mean, if the adults are the majority, and the "malcontent PG adults" are a minority, wouldn't they be happy with a sort-of Utopia area? Think about it.

As for Verification, I'll put it simply.

WHY
do we,
need more,
THAN
The Internet.

Every single website out there, from Playboy, to "worse", has a little Box you click that says, "Hey! I'm an adult, and by penalty of perjury, lemme in!". If its good for actual, hardcore porn of real human beings, why the heck would I need to give you my Social Security/Driver's License to look at your pretend, digital boobies?

Seriously, I hate to be cynically pragmatic, but if a simple "Let me in" box works for everywhere else, then the Aristotle Identity Verifications is downright Orwellian on your part. I recommend adopting the box system, or your proposed "Credit card + history", or if people really want, the ID Verification. But don't just make it like, the latter. Give people some options that are workable/don't totally violate their right to their private info.

To end on a good note, as I said way above, it's about time we addressed these issues. The fact that it is done via forums and discussions groups, is veyr promising.

Thank-you for your time, both Lindens and forum participants.
-Tracer.

Saiki, does your status on your profile say "Payment Info Used"? If so, then according to the statements made by the Lindens, you are already verified. This is also the case if you have bought something from XStreetSL.

If your status is "Payment Info on File" then by buying a very very small number of Lindens (like a dollar's worth) your status will be changed and you will have been verified.

If you are "No Payment Info on File" and if you haven't bought anything on XStreetSL, then if you can't or don't want to use Aristotle you will have to find a way to get your status to "Payment Info Used".

That is the most we know based on statements from LL to-date. Hope this helps.

What if you're coarse enough to want to impose a narrow-minded morality on everybody else? Should the content offered by those be labeled CPBTI "Content Provided By The Intolerant"?

If you actually believed in personal responsibility, you wouldn't be taking the positions you have.

Enough Nany. Stop with the snipes. Why must you take every possible opportunity to make a value judgement about the interests of others? It reveals too much of your character and it shames you and everyone you profess to represent.


- Kyle

something which imho is just someone's crusade to destroy every fansy but their own. I go to sims and see Gor meters on people, I used to rp in Gor, I have read some of the books. it may not be a lifestyle for me, but it's always interesting to talk to them. (Then again I have a very open mind, unlike some) You can learn alot about someone's views by asking them, and most of the time, they're not bad veiws, they just see things as you may not. At first I thought BDSM was a bad thing, but as I opened up to people around it, I grew to understand it more, it's just plastered in a bad light. The same goes for the gay community in SL, (the guys, not lesbians, I'll get to that in a second) I have always thought gay to be a sin (religious beliefs) but that does not make them bad people, my views are my own, I do not spread them around and preach. I don't say they're all damned to hell for being what they are. I don't look for excuses to pick fights, I'm not a self-absorbed asshole. There are genuinely good people on SL, just as there are bad. sexual preference is not one my my guidelines to being a good person. Now I said I would get to lesbains, so here I am. A few of my freinds are lesbians as well, I do not try to do anything that would affend them, just the same as they do not for me, we are clearly understanding of eachother, and the company we keep, (ok, I just didn't know how to say it) But you can bet that when anyone wants some advice on just about anything, I'm who they go to. (in my social circle anyway) When I need a friend I know I can turn to them, just as they know they can turn to me.