Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

Thanks, I wish SL is really that ideal.

If there is a wish, may I ask LL to spend a bit more time on positive improvement to create a warm welcoming environment in SL other than negative and destructive banning which consumes real resources and human energy?

At the end of the day, who are you making happy?

OK i accept the facts as you show here and thank you for taking the time to reply. I agree that there are problems ahead with this and perhaps next time writing a reply to topic rather than using a direct quote may be better and some smilies or disclaimer at the end and i would have seen it quicker

dear god noo..
I really dont want SL to turn into a soft playful kids palace XD.
It doesnt mean I am into AO things, but I think if I want to walk around wearing a jeans only on a beach, I shouldt be bothered by a 13 year old kid that doesnt understand a shit about evertyhing that SL is about XD.

Really, SL is a thing for adults, it CAN be highly addictive, so parents out there, dont even ALLOW your kid to play SL lol. Its something made by adults, for adults..
Lets leave the kids alone and let them have fun with a dollhouse or a batman-figure!

Teach your newbies well,
Their gesture spam will slowly go by.
And camp them in your store,
To sell their picks, to game your search by...

Whoops, I got a bit cynical there at the end...

As has been known since the dawn of time - articulated again recently by the US Supreme Court - one man's obscenity is another man's beauty. To attempt to codify the wide range of human social norms into a regulatory system is counterproductive. At best, it will generate high monitoring and enforcement costs; at worst, it will lead to confusion and conflict within the SL community.

We can play this game until the end of time. In fact, there are probably as many possible sets of definitions as there are residents. Even if you were to get general agreement on a California set of definitions and the folks in Ohio manage to get general agreement on their definitions, there would still be as many sets of definitions as there are countries and cultures in the world.

For example, the term 'adult' is employed with an Anglo-American bias to mean 'pornographic', but in the rest of the world, the term 'adult' means grown-up - not childish. The very language used in this discussion is biased toward a US-centric view of the world.

In continental Europe, it is common to see sexually explicit ads on television. Topless women appear daily in British tabloid newspapers and Parisian bus shelter posters. Japanese men read graphic novels on the subway. "Ebichu", a popular TV show in Japan, would be banned in the United States. Belgian students fall over themselves laughing at "Man Bites Dog". By contrast, many Saudi women swim fully dressed at the beaches of Taba, Egypt - and you just try walking down the streets of Tunis as a woman with your long, blond hair uncovered!

The same goes for violence. Watch "Planet Earth" by David Attenborough. Who can forget the battle between two birds trying to drown each other - interrupted suddenly my a mink that kills and eats one of them on the spot. Then there is chimp gang warfare, whereby the victors tear apart and eat one of the losers. The footage of killer whales 'torturing' seals is pretty dramatic as well. Should it be banned? The very question is insane.

Folks, get the picture here. No one holds a wet T-shirt contest in Salt Lake City. No one wears a Hijab in the casinos of Las Vegas. Give 100 people from 100 countries 100 photographs of human beings in various poses in various stages of undress and good luck deciding what is prudish, silly, normal, acceptable or pornographic. No matter how you twist and turn, there is no way to set 'community standards' on a virtual world as complex and diverse as Second Life - at least not without alienating a significant proportion of the population. People came to Second Life to get away from such labels and definitions. Is it not obvious that this exercise in definitions is poisonous to Second Life?

If anyone is interested, I just created a group called Ursula Alliance for discussion by future Ursula residents. It's modelled on existing groups Bay City Alliance and Nautilus City Alliance.

It's not a protest group, but a group for people who either see the migration as a fait accompli and want to make the best of it, or for people who are genuinely enthusiastic about the opportunities.

Good ideas seen so far:

- creation of an adult showcase
- appointment of an adult advocate linden (XXX Linden?)
- separate zoning of adult and violent parcels
- adult community events like burning man
- adult welcome area/infohub
- opening Ursula to visits with a long lead time before the move to allow familiarisation

Let me repeat, not a protest group

I'm still less than impressed with the options for island owners, having to flag a whole region adult is great for people who have adult business on their own sim, but what about small business? They're stuck, island owners are not going to want to disenfranchise existing tenants and residents by making their island restricted access, by the same token they're not going to want to lose the income generated by the adult business on their island.

This needs to be a parcel issue in cases where content is contained within a building or high in the sky.

I own BDSM Bondage Bukkake Fetish. It's an extremely adult content and I work hard to make it that way and that's been the success of my place. I cater only to those with fetishes beyond the normal poseball jumpers. Lots of people dislike my place becuase of the lag (which LL has yet to fix) and lots of people enjoy my place and have for over two years. I have spent literally thousands of US dollars on the "club" for aquiring toys and land. I am going to be forced to move and that will kill my place. Linden Labs has no idea how many hours of days and nights of months I've spent trying to make my club what it is. I love my club...I hate to see it go down in flames like it's going to. This makes me sad, angry and feeling like I've wasted the past two years in SL for nothing. The accomplishment of making a successful establisment only to have it ripped out from under by Big Brother.

Way to go! You did well. Remember when everyone complained about gambling? Everyone jumped on the band wagon about how awful they were. SL shut them down with no remorse. I saw then that the BDSM community would be next. A few, but very loud minority forcing their beliefs and lifestyles onto all others.

I would like to know about the land swap. If I have to take the time, trouble, and MONEY to move, is SL going to help me? Is it a square meter for sq. meter land swap? Are they going to pack up all my stuff, my vendors' things, and transport them and set it up for me? Are they going to give me free advertising? Am I going to be able to still have advertising for my club in any mainland mature sim privately owned business? Are they going to "SELL" me the land on the new continent? Am I going to have to buy land on an adult continent at an inflated price becuase of special "flags"?

Are the adult continent sims and land fees going to be inflated? This move is going to cost LL millions of US dollars, and we know the users are going to be the ones paying it. Government never pays their costs..taxpayers do!

Now that it will all be age verified, there should be NO DOUBTS as to the real age, gender, and geographic location of an avatar. What will now be allowed? If you are moving us to a single continent, are you going to relax your "TOS" as to what you will now allow? Being all age verified, we should all be allowed to express ourselves in ANY manner we choose. If I want to be a 6 week old puppy feeding from a male sex organ. I should now be allowed. It IS an ADULT CONTENT CONTENINENT!

My club does NOT allow age players...so those of you reading this and thinking it is tolerated there...Don't try it.

I wanted to get my point across. LL wants to "hide us away" from the general public as we are scum of the universe for having establishments which cater to sex. I see many many places going out of business. I see tons of products no longer being available without tons of inflation to compensate. I see "cover charges" to get into clubs now becuase as a business owner, I cannot afford the inflated costs to keep my place going, so if it prevails through this madness, the cost is going to end up going to my clients.

First it was age players, they still exist. Then it was casinos, yet they still exist. Now it's deviant sex (anything non-missionary for you ohh light of heart). What's next? We will all be forced to be the same. The only way to have no discrimination, is to have no differences.

Wait and see....Big Brother is watching, and you will conform. By the way, I'm a Southern Conservative! That part is true, very true. I believe in God, I believe in FREE WILL. I believe that censorship is wrong to be forced upon anyone. I believe in freedom of exspression and the RIGHT TO CHOOSE. I believe what you do in your bedroom or in a PRIVATE ESTABLISHMENT is your choice. LL is obviously a leftest extreme forcing us to look the same, have no gender, and have no mind to choose what is best for us. Linden Labs did not buy my land, they did not buy the toys in my facility, they did not choose my decor, they did not pay my tiers. They did however..MAKE A PROFIT off of my business the whole time I have had it open. And now they are telling me where I can be, how I can decorate, ....This is a sad day for myself and LL...I think I'm out of here.

It's been a good two years everyone...Enjoy what you have left.
Best Wishes,
DigitalJoe Saintlouis

Well, let me say it more explicitly. It is the political-correctness in all these terms that everyone is trying to duck at using the precise terms that really have some meanings to them.

Ok, it is the problem of the American society to be so puritan by self-censoring themselves when they could have used the exact words but afraid to be ostracized by the society that is the root of the problem. This extends all the way into SL. The question is why can't we be more authentic rather than so hypocritical and dance around the issue by simply using the term "immoral" if that is what they are referring to by what "adult" is? But that would get them into trouble.

It's like saying enemy-combatant but not prisoner-of-war, improvised explosive device but not mine, not fighting a war but fighting a war. Using all these terms are trying to disguise their intention, and pretend we are so pure and innocent.

Linden Lab has got its knickers in a twist recently regarding sexuality in Second Life. While seeking to improve the 'user experience' by segregating residents based on their sexual preferences, LL's proposed policy changes have instead opened Pandora's Box. Soon, this forum will groan under the weight of hair-splitting detail concerning the best method of classifying sexuality within Second Life, but Linden Lab has asked the wrong question.

Background:

The establishment of anonymous accounts in June 2006 opened the doors to underage players. This resulted in international legal scrutiny, increased exposure to legal liability and damaging media coverage. Linden Lab responded by intruding into residents' sexual relationships and expelling two consenting adults for underage roleplay - even though no underage players were involved. Refusal to close the anonymous accounts and dogged insistence on an ineffective and unsound ID-based age verification system cost Linden Lab considerable political capital with no benefit.

Many of us who came into SL in 2006 (and brought money with us) were horrified by the policy changes of 2007. The deal was that LL would provide a basic property rights structure and act solely as a referee in property disputes. We sighed with relief when LL reassured us that they had no intention of applying overarching codes of morality on the community. I also vividly recall LL announcing that there would be no change in gambling policy. Then came 2007 and bitter disappointment. All the reassurances given only weeks before were abandoned as Linden Lab slammed the gearshift into reverse. For thousands of people, the trust and faith they had in Linden Lab was badly damaged.

During 2008, the company's reputation slowly began to recover. Yes, the openspace pricing model was flawed and, yes, there was a second round of mainland supply problems, but at least LL were not bungling policy anymore. The micro-parcel issue was resolved within reason. LL seemed to be developing the ability to handle complex issues...then bang! We are back to square one with a crude policy on social behavior.

The Right Question:

The right question, then, is a) how best to prevent underage players from mingling with adults and b) how best to zone the mainland in a tolerant and efficient manner? Needless to say, eliminating anonymous accounts solves the first part of the problem. Instead of creating a complicated system of filters to prevent kids accessing adult content, keep them out of SL altogether.

As for the second part, when constructing the mainland, Linden Lab established a patchwork of Mature and PG sims such that a loud BDSM club can open next to a quiet, residential home. The introduction of a third sim type, 'Adult', though badly named (all SL is adult by definition) - let us call it 'Xtreme' instead - makes sense. Constructing an 'Xtreme' continent and allowing residents to migrate there - at their own choosing, at their own pace - also makes sense. It may take a year or two, but I believe most 'Xtreme' players will prefer to be free of the moral harassment they receive from PG residents.

The New Problem:

As has been known since the dawn of time - articulated again recently by the US Supreme Court - one man's obscenity is another man's beauty. To attempt to codify the wide range of human social norms into a regulatory system is counterproductive. At best, it will generate high monitoring and enforcement costs; at worst, it will lead to confusion and conflict within the SL community.

Context and Perspective:

1. Second Life is VIRTUAL, VOLUNTARY and ADULT

Seeking to apply RL standards to a virtual world is silly. There is no safer place on Earth than the privacy of your RL home. It is voluntary in that one must sign up for an account and it is adult in that everyone in SL is an adult (or should be). That means one has passed through puberty, has learned to relate to people and become responsible for one's decisions - including the decision to be in a virtual world with other adults. As an adult, one recognizes and accepts that people have different styles and tastes and that rudeness or harassment should not be confused with sexuality.

2. Creativity needs VARIETY, COMPLEXITY and SYNERGY

Second Life is unique in catering to a broad, international population of adults. Because of its richness and diversity, SL attracts a wide range of entrepreneurs who provide a wide range of services to a wide range of residents. The organic nature of this mix is itself creative. The functionality of a BDSM collar may benefit another entrepreneur making improvements to a 'PG' hugger; Gorean silks may generate new ideas in traditional fashion design; techniques learned to make vampire animations are transferable to dance animations. As for 'deviant' behavior, Penicillin was the result of dirty dishes. Post-It notes were a mistake. Lord Byron was a scoundrel. Virginia Woolf was a manic-depressive. Alan Turing was a homosexual. History is littered with the corpses of the brilliant heretics.

The founders of Second Life understood this. They recognized the organic nature of the IT industry and that 'creative destruction' had to be embraced rather than shunned. They were amazed by the fall of IBM and inspired by the Burning Man festival in the desert of Nevada. They built Second Life - against all the odds - and it was hugely successful. Sadly, in 2007, the regulators, lawyers and bureaucrats arrived. All this organic stuff had to go, they said. The time had come to strip away risk and uncertainty, to seek the lowest common denominator and penetrate the mass market. I summarized the spirit of this new direction in my profile: "In the name of safety and security and to protect residents from themselves, all activities requiring intelligence and maturity will be banned."

3. Don't micromanage the rainforest

Getting rid of snakes may seem like a good idea, but they play a vital role in the natural ecology/economy. Without the snakes, there are too many rodents. Importing hawks to solve the rodent problem disrupts other birds, causing a new problem. Soon, like a vast cascade of dominoes, the whole ecosystem goes out of balance. Hiring 1000 managers and forming new committees to provide more control only makes things worse. In an ever-descending spiral, the managers scramble to repair the ever-increasing damage until the rainforest is finally paved in concrete. Problem solved.

Conclusion:

While my criticisms may seem harsh, I feel it imperative to warn Linden Lab of the long-term consequences of 'cleaning up' Second Life. Yes, improvements can be made in the property rights structure to enable residents greater privacy and control - I am very much in favor of this - but Linden Lab does not seem to realize that the lowest common denominator is poison for any creative enterprise.

I implore Linden Lab to note the howls of protest against this new policy drowning out those voices raised surreptitiously beforehand in its favor. Please reflect on the nature of the world you have created - that became a wonder BEFORE you began meddling with it. Please remember that Second Life is VIRTUAL, VOLUNTARY and ADULT and understand that Disneyfication will buy you at best a temporary advantage before the whole edifice slides gently into banality.

Ok, yes, I agree that it would be better to put a disclaimer at the end to indicate it was a rhetorical question. Yes, text communication often got us into misinterpretation when there is a much fuller spectrum of expression in vocal communication to give us the clues of what we meant by intonation of surprise or disappointment.

Next time, i will add a few words of disclaimer, but yet I will put me back into the same corner for being so defensive in wording everything and put a legal disclaimer in very fine print that i would be a lawyer rather than a regular fun loving citizen

My apologize if I had ever made you feel embarrassed in the public I wish LL could be man enough to do the same too!

I found Second Life using a free account. Within two months I went premium and opened my own club. If I had to pay for an account up front or give personal info in the beginning I never would of experienced what I found fun to begin with. SEX! I would of never bought land, I would of never spent two years in SL. LL's would of never made any money from me at all. I came as an explorer and loved it due to the openness of sexual expression.

To think once age verification was enforced back then I never would have stayed scares me. How many people will we lose in the future over this? ALLOT!

I have been playing online for over 14 years. SL was the very first place I ever gave any real time credit card info to. I was very conservative. I trusted very little of given any info online. I see this as hurting everyone that has an adult business. SL would of lost the thousands of real time money from me if this was in place in 2006. I have no doubt I would not of stayed. This only tells me SL is about to go down the tubes for those that are looking, exploring Adult activity.

Good luck LL's for dumping any future potential players and money makers. No matter how small or large.

Excellent, thank you Lindens. I can see it would be much more difficult to filter the inworld Search function than it is for something like xStreet. But just filtering the usual out of the descriptions will make a big difference.

Search in xStreet is great. If you aren't looking for adult material, it is simply not there. Inworld, you may teleport into a place that is not what was advertised in Search. But at least I hope we can fix getting it pushed in our face just by opening the Search utility.

Part of the policy needs to be a well defined way to provide feedback on apparent violations. Should probably be a LL statement prominently displayed that feedback is welcome and who to contact.

Who can forget the magic of Second Life before 2007? City slickers all, we trooped into the rainforrest with an enthusiasm rarely experienced in our daily lives. It was an alien world - mysterious, vibrant, alive - and who among us did not get bitten by insects? We didn't care. We danced and cried and LIVED free from the grinding banality of RL with it labels and definitions. "At last!" we shouted from the virtual rooftops, "a world for adults!"

Then we got down to business: grooming, shopping, building a home, making new friends, integrating ourselves into new communities. In a world with few restrictions, we rolled up our sleeves and learned to plan, bargain, cooperate and negotiate. What a joy to exercise talents long suppressed by RL nannies, school teachers, employers, lawyers, priests and politicians - not to mention morally self-righteous neighbors. Here in SL, we were on our own, free, yes, but also responsible for our decisions. What a thrill to live by your wits, to grasp the fabric of reality and press it against your face. Clean sheets fresh from the dryer!

This is what made Second Life successful. It was an information-rich social space in which residents could bypass the physical and social constraints of race, gender, age, class, nationality, sexual orientation and physical appearance. It was also a free-market economy in which talent could rise unhindered by the social and political constraints of formal education, employment history, credit record, union membership, professional accreditation and government bureaucracy. Anyone could come to Second Life and be an architect, fashion designer, model, dancer, club owner, programmer or socialite. It was this combined social and economic freedom that drew people from all over the world through the Welcome Centers of Ellis Island. Don't you get it, Jack? Second Life is itself a symbol. It is this symbol you have been slowly destroying since 2007.

I'm so sick of all this bullying from the Lindens I'm ditching my land and downgrading my account to free. They are not getting another cent from me. I recommend that anyone else who is fed up do the same. This is an adult community and catering to the brain dead at the expense of everyone else is absolutely unacceptable.

so LL is not charging for the move. BUT, if someone is moving a parcel (or a few parcels) rather than moving an entire sim ... will parcel owners have to contend with waiting for the new sim buyers to parcel and price the land? -also- will there be price controls so that the new parcels cost the same as our old parcels?

this can't be called a "swap" unless the new land costs nothing (except tier), and for parcel owners it must be in the same square meter amount, and also located in the same approximate sim quality as they already have. otherwise, it's just a forced relocation.

even if the move is 100% cost-free to everyone affected ... IMO, overcrowded sims with busy businesses will turn the adult continent into a ghetto - or a reservation - for what Linden Labs has already stated is a minority group ("only 4%". so, excepting the violent RPGs that will have to move ... is Linden Labs honestly forcing relocation based on how people choose to express their sexual preferences? the NCSF is at http://www.ncsfreedom.org , everyone.

my fears about the land "swap" are:
1) i won't be able to afford new parcels on the new land. will there be price controls to prevent real estate price gouging?

2) i bought 3 parcels together in order to create the buildings i need. will Linden Labs guarantee i'll have the exact same amount of square meters in a new sim on the new continent?

3) i bought land in a sim that does not have any other busy/crowded businesses in it. i did this so my patrons wouldn't suffer from lag during events. how will Linden Labs arrange the "swaps" to ensure they are moving to the same quality of land they already own?

i truly hope for answers to my questions.

Blondin, Blue, et al Lindens:

Will you PLEASE answer the questions that we keep asking instead of IGNORING them? Stop cherry-picking questions that are of little to no relevance to the core of the issue. If you are going to decline to answer them, or if you just don't know, then SAY so.

Hence:























I can keep repeating them until they are recognized and addressed/answered.

How long are you all going to keep trying to hide from the hard questions?

Please, answer some of the other questions, that circle around this....it is very frustrating, when on top of the "Adult" classification, we don't get answers on this.

Even a "we aren't sure"...is an answer. Ignoring...is not an answer.

Again, I make my three simple requests:

1- Look back at your data and validate the 2-4% number. If it's higher, this could get very expensive.

2- Allow me to flag myself and everything I have created as 'Adult Content' so i can be sure I am invisible to those I or my content might make uncomfortable.

3- Use 'Double Opt-In' rather than internationally problematic and privacy invading alternatives.

- Kyle

This would solve several issues.

1) It would allow new players a chance to explore the VIRTUAL world we live in and decide if it's for them.

2) Banning non-verified accounts from "Mature" rated sims whatsoever would eliminate any possible minors from accessing mature content. My club isn't adult content, my club is MATURE! I don't have topless dancers begging for lindens. I have willing consensual MATURE roleplayers who enjoy a more deviant side of ...life.

3) Pay to play. It would get rid of a bunch of beggers, spammers, leachers, and TRAFFIC BOTS as well as help to fix the problems of traffic ratings for search results.

4) It would show an accurate display of the SL economy, population, and actual avatar data.

5) It would keep negative media attention LOW and boost the overall appearance of SL's reputation.

6) It would give LL/SL a chance to forewarn new players that this world is MADE UP of and by INDIVIDUAL creators and the content that new players see may not be suitable for their person regardless of age.

7) It would be much easier and cost effective to implement as well as less intrusive for it's current PAYING residents. Those who don't pay now...SORRY. You would be banned from mature content and your account deleted if not a paying member within 2 months.

It would give new trial members a chance to learn about SL's usuage that so many NOOBS don't take the time to learn before they go off searching for sex..IE, search, appearance altering, use the SL economy....and still allow for camping (which is a total waste of gameplay)

9) All residents would be AGE VERIFIED for Mature content.

10) WE CAN ALL BE FREE TO DO AS WE CHOOSE.

I would like to thank Detango Vale for this idea.

Blondin - Since yesterday was the end of the discussion phase, can you let us know which definition is being considered more likely at this time?

Patasha

This goes to show more needs to be done on keeping those starting in SL in an area where they can learn the basics before going out into the main grid. Some time ago I helped on help Island some time ago and was a very interesting time. Many wanted to know how to get off that part and into the fun stuff, alot wanted to know how you have sex in SL, some wanted to know how to build, dress and the basics of SL.

It would also eliminate most of the active SL user base, and the money they spend in SL. Want to put as many SL businesses out of business as fast as possible? End free accounts.

In the last thread, several owners set out a script to count NPIOF, PIOF and PIU users who came to their shops. When they saw the numbers, they didn't think even requiring payment info was such a hot idea. I think it had something to do with half or more of their customers being NPIOF avatars.

SL would be much more peaceful though. Last one out, turn off the lights.