Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions
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Innula Zenovka
Registered User
Join date: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,825
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04-29-2009 02:03
From: Valerius Constantine Until they are forced to flag content rating- and someone get's AR'd for violating the content rating.
Private estates are affected too.
^V^ Quite so. My understanding is that I'm required to flag my islands as whatever I think most appropriate and am then, myself, held responsible for policing people's adherence to the standards. That is, if I don't flag them as "adult," it's me who ends up in trouble with the "G" team if someone takes exception to what he finds there, ARs it, and the G team take his view rather than mine. What this means in practice is that I'm going to have to flag everything as "adult," so I don't have to worry and neither do my tenants. It's not that we want to hold public orgies or whatever, but I do have "Adult" items on display on carefully landscaped parts of the sim (my tentacle monsters are not really indoor plants, for example) and some of my tenants have been known to use the rugs and other items placed discretely round my woods. The two things that really annoy me about having to do this are i) my tenants and I can no longer freely invite guests of our choice to our properties, since flagging the sim means our guests will have to be age-verified and ii)a free builders' resource centre I host, up in a skybox well away from anything on the ground level, will also become "adult content," with all that implies for advertising and access. |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:07
From: Prilis Boa ...but I don't want to type or copy every single lindening linden, theres too many of the lindens Ah, consumer activism is a harsh mistress!  ^V^ |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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04-29-2009 02:12
From: Mars Lake What I am saying is the NSFW content as it stands now on SL would likely be a big problem for a number of corporations in the US and could derail many such forays. Only as an excuse by IT to kill it if all else failed, and this policy change won't keep Mordac the Preventer from being able to point at Anshe Chung and the Floppy Dong attack. If LL had a secure product they wouldn't need to clean anything up because IT would be on their side. |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:14
From: Ilana Debevec Where's George Carlin when we need him?
"Ok sheriff, we're gonna Lindun you now... but but we're gonna Lindun you slow..."
"Ok boys we've got a cop-Lindun'er out there..." LINDEN THE UMP! LINDEN THE UMP! Mad LIndener still on the loose! RIP george- you would have *loved* this shit.. ^V^ |
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Mars Lake
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
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04-29-2009 02:16
From: Argent Stonecutter It's passed already. If they had come out with their grid-in-a-box product back in 2005 before OpenSim got to the point of supporting meetings behind the firewall, they'd have a chance, but letting IBM get a special deal on a secure grid is too little too late. Could be. The important thing though, is that I seriously doubt LL thinks it has passed, and so here we are. |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:18
From: Ashe1 Writer You know, everytime LL changes their policy, someone along the way cries 'lawsuit.'
Don't you think that LL went over this with all THEIR lawyers first? I'm almost positive they don't make a move without consulting the legal department beforehand. The LL legal team can learn a thing or two along the way- and if they are as thorough as the people who crafted this charlie-fox of a plan, then I imagine that there are a *LOT* of things that they haven't considered yet. ^V^ |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:22
From: Darien Caldwell Then why not do it now? They have nothing to gain from dragging it out. In fact they have a lot to lose the longer this goes on. How many more months of tier fees can they get out of us by dragging it out? especially when they know that we'll probably wind up abandoning our land at the end of the trail, and they can re-auction it to some other sucker? ^V^ |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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04-29-2009 02:23
From: Valerius Constantine But Second inventory only works with full-perm objects (so the blurb for it says, anyway- it costs too much for me to play with it)
If you have purchased full permissions, or is is an object you yourself has made, then what is the issue?
Full perm items are re-sellable anyway, after all. Full Perm doesn't mean "you have the right to transfer this to another grid". The only objects you have the right to transfer out of the Second Life service, *even if your name is Linden*, are those you created or the creator has explicitly told you that you are allowed to transfer them. From: SL ToS 3.2 You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights, forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of Second Life. Users of the Service can create Content on Linden Lab's servers in various forms. Linden Lab acknowledges and agrees that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, you will retain any and all applicable copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to any Content you create using the Service, to the extent you have such rights under applicable law. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service, provided that in the event that your Content appears publicly in material under the control of Linden Lab, and you provide written notice to Linden Lab of your desire to discontinue the distribution of such Content in such material (with sufficient specificity to allow Linden Lab, in its sole discretion, to identify the relevant Content and materials), Linden Lab will make commercially reasonable efforts to cease its distribution of such Content following the receipt of such notice, although Linden Lab cannot provide any assurances regarding materials produced or distributed prior to the receipt of such notice; (b) the perpetual and irrevocable right to delete any or all of your Content from Linden Lab's servers and from the Service, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and for any reason or no reason, without any liability of any kind to you or any other party; and (c) a royalty- free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing and/or providing support services in connection with the Service. Further, you agree to grant to Linden Lab a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable right and license to exercise the copyright, publicity, and database rights you have in your account information, including any data or other information generated by your account activity, in any media now known or not currently known, in accordance with our privacy policy as set forth below, including the incorporation by reference of terms posted at http://secondlife.com/corporate/privacy.php. That means that when you create something in SL, you are licensing Linden Labs to allow it to be transferred within the service using the tools LL provides (such as permissions), and to use it for advertising under the control of Linden Labs. Transferring your content into another grid is not permitted by this license since it is neither within the service nor under the control of Linden Labs. This clause in the ToS doesn't even grant Linden Labs the right to use SI to transfer your creation to OpenLife, no matter what permissions you put on it. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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04-29-2009 02:29
From: Mars Lake Could be. The important thing though, is that I seriously doubt LL thinks it has passed, and so here we are. Yes, that's the point of my message to Meta Linden over in the SLX forums. |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:34
thanks blondin. They add a layer of confusion, but thanks ^V^ |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:46
From: Snickers Snook Woah, wait as second!! What's the difference between a RESIDENT being RATED Mature vs PG. I get the account verify for Adult but this implies a new level of verification to tell if you can access Mature content other than a checkbox. If the checkboxes are disabled, how the hell does LL know someone is PG or Mature?? Am I missing something? Yes, you're missing that those *under* the age of 18 will be limited to a PG rating. But the grid merger is just a rumor! ^V^ |
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Cal Kondo
Low impact
Join date: 7 Oct 2006
Posts: 143
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04-29-2009 02:47
From: Couldbe Yue blondin has already said that if that approach is taken there'll be trouble. And so there should be. If LL allow loopholers to continue to advertise and sell adult content on less then Adult land. That would be grossly unfair to vendors that follow the rules and remove themselves from access to unverified customers by moving to adult land. |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 02:53
From: Argent Stonecutter Don't forget: half the tits out there are cocks. Some of them are even from Lake Titicaca! ^V^ |
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Kirsty Shoreman
Registered User
Join date: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 44
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thank you
04-29-2009 02:56
Blondin thank you this is a huge help. K |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 03:08
From: Mars Lake Yes, interesting post Hypatia, but I think off the mark. I'm not sure how it could ever be about inventory when nasty stuff can be made by anyone including a griefer who would label them PG.
Based on my time in corporate IT management and reading the recent press surrounding SL, it would seem to me that the core reason for them to clean up "public" SL to be much safer for the corporate desktops in the workplace. LL has a real opportunity to break into the corporate mainstream, but it won't last forever. There are many corporations though where the things that will be labeled as adult content are NSFW (not safe for work). Casting adult content off into it's own lands could make entry by employees at work much more acceptable.
I wouldn't be surprised if some time after this segregation of adult content occurs if LL makes available business avatars. Get your own business name (or variation of it) as a last name AND the avatars would not be able to switch or verify into adult mode. Going for the corporate accounts would mean using content controls that kept unverified accounts *out* of PG areas, not Adult. A PG place with draconian content enforcement and the inability to enter without payment info on file, and maybe a fining system if you're caught stinking up the place with a penis bomb might work. ^V^ |
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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04-29-2009 03:19
From: Cal Kondo And so there should be. If LL allow loopholers to continue to advertise and sell adult content on less then Adult land. That would be grossly unfair to vendors that follow the rules and remove themselves from access to unverified customers by moving to adult land. but they are - through xsl. that's the funny bit
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Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55
XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc
Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/
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Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
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04-29-2009 03:30
From: Valerius Constantine RIP george- you would have *loved* this shit.. Yeah, who would have thought his routine today would add one more word and that it would be 'Linden'?
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Those Lindening Lindens!
'O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
Never shalt we define thee.
Our users think that means no lagging,
But we say they want no shagging.
O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
We love you null expression.'
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Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
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04-29-2009 03:35
From: Valerius Constantine thanks blondin. They add a layer of confusion, but thanks Yeah, ty Blondin, although they were pretty late. Also, they seem much shorter than the MP3s would indicate, especially for such an *efficient* mode of communication -- are they the COMPLETE transcripts of everything everyone voiced? They look more like a canned set of responses. If they are incomplete, when will everyone who does not have access to voice get the actual transcripts?
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Those Lindening Lindens!
'O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
Never shalt we define thee.
Our users think that means no lagging,
But we say they want no shagging.
O predictable experience,
O predictable experience,
We love you null expression.'
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 03:38
From: Innula Zenovka Thanks. Since I posted, Blondin's given me a pretty clear (unusually so, indeed) answer to my initial question. /352/11/314444/247.html#post2407558 So, the answer to your question, Must be, "No, the merchant can't use "Adult" terms to sell from "Mature" land, but must move to "Adult" land in order so to do." What was confusing me, I think, is that I hadn't fully appreciated that I must ask myself two separate, but related, questions -- first, "is my content 'adult'?" and, if the answer to the first question is "no", then, "regardless of the nature of the content, do I want/need to use "adult" terms to describe it?" If the answer to EITHER question is "yes," then I've got to sell from Adult land. Not a bad assessment- look at your content, then look at your primary clientele and what sort of advertising attracts them. If either one gets filtered, then you might want to move to the land of red light. ^V^ |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 03:45
From: Couldbe Yue try reading the transcripts.. not only does the merchant one bear little relationship to the audio I listened to, but according to the educator one their concerns are the same as ours with no hint of approval of this. I haven't listened to the other brown bags but I'm of the opinion they're more wishful thinking around what they wished had been said rather than the actual. So the transcripts aren't accurate? I ask because I haven't listened to the audio- don't want ot take the time to DL it and then listen to the lindens talk- I get a little queasy around the smell of bullshit ^V^ |
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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04-29-2009 03:48
From: Couldbe Yue blondin has already said that if that approach is taken there'll be trouble. Heh- more trouble than being bundled off to ursula? And I wonder how actionable it might be to ban someone who hasn't broken *any* in-world rules? A non-SL website- available in the profile "Web" tab would work just fine. I don't see what they can do about it. ^V^ |
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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04-29-2009 04:12
can someone post the link to the list of keywords that are being used in the viewer? I can't seem to find it
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Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups.
Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55
XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc
Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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Difference between activity and product
04-29-2009 04:19
From: Brenda Connolly This is moronic. So the content itself has no bearing on where the store belongs, just what words are used to describe it? Why are you people so afraid of words, and why are the people who are "asking" for this so afraid of them? And why create Ursula at all then? Using this logic, the mainland can still be full of sex related businesses if they word their descriptions benignly. I must be missing something. I don't get it. Brenda, I think its simple to see the problem here. There is a difference in the Linden's minds between the products and the activity. Nude skin - OK, whip - OK, whipping a nude person - Adult. The difficulty for businesses that sell the products is the *same* words are desired to be used in search listings: BDSM Club and BDSM Gear both want to use BDSM. At this point, we are beyond being able to tell them "don't use single word filtering". It's already functioning on the website and sim servers. We now have the situation that even if the products are not adult in themselves, their description is classed that way by the word filter. So you would need to request a move to Ursula if its critical to your business to use those words. I am not saying I agree with this, single word filtering is a crude tool. But its a fact of the already deployed software. Your choices for your business are move to Ursula, or use non-adult words in your description. Depending on how this plays out, I expect a lot of people and places will post signs, notecard givers, etc to help newbies. They will explain if you are looking for adult items, you will need to verify your account or go beyond the obvious filtered words to find them. I have always wondered why Linden Labs does not send out a users guide (or link to one) as part of the account registration/client download. Basic use of a browser is pretty easy, enter search words in your engine of choice, click on a link. Basic use of SL encompasses a lot more, and not everyone learns the same way. They need to tell people: If you learn by reading a manual, here it is, If you learn by watching videos, go there, If you learn by doing, log in, go thru orientation, then for building do this (search for a sandbox) socializing do that (search for a club or group) shopping works like this freebies can be found thusly etc, etc covering the major activities people do Right now, we are pretty much dropped into the grid with no preparation, to sink or swim. |
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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04-29-2009 04:22
From: Couldbe Yue can someone post the link to the list of keywords that are being used in the viewer? I can't seem to find it If you mean the list Mr. B. deleted yesterday - here is the mirror on Lord Sullivan's wiki: http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Adult_Content_Keywordsedit add: I am no tech freak, but as far as I understood some posts about this, the words are tested by some people with the alpha or "nightly" pre-version of the 1.23 viewer. |
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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04-29-2009 04:28
From: Valerius Constantine LS, I'm thinking that what we'll need is a way to advertise outside of SL. A place where people can advertise their "mature" business using whatever words they like. We also need a secure archive of what Blondin has said, when LL has said, hosting to the brown bag sessions, etc. copies of old TOS documents, and new one with the changes highlighted. we need an archive to go back to. in case LL reaps the whirlwind with a class action suit- proof of our agreements with LL and the ways in which they changed those agreements arbitrarily. Just my suggestions, of course, but I'd say that what we'll *need* is a repository of evidence in case a bunch of us decide to sue, and a way to get around stupid policies like banning mentions of songbirds in advertising. But then, I'm pretty subversive  ^V^ We have the wiki in place for information storage and a forum will follow hopefully later today we are in the process of developing another site on slapt.me for SL so will incorporate all this and more i hope more people will use the wiki to document the changes store web pages etc. and you don't have to sign up for an account to add to it. We now have a couple of admins who are also working hard on changing bits and adding bits to the wiki, but as always a wiki is a collective site and no one person can do all of this on his/her own Our aim is to mirror the LL wiki and i have ensured that space is available on our servers to do this. I hope that others will join in and help it grow
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Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants. http://slapt.me  slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
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