Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

See, this is the thing. What the 'sex industry' feels has nothing to do with sympathy or not. It is that the 'sex industry' tends to be made up of people enlightened enough to live and let live. It is your particular passion for impinging on the freedoms of others that is so distasteful. Nobody here has said you have to move your sim, change your business plan, alter how you communicate with others or verify that you are, in fact who you claim to be RL.

That somebody allegedly interested in enriching the lives of those once oppressed by the values of those who had no understanding or respect for their culture would be so utterly without self awareness is disgraceful and wholly unlike any of the First Americans I have had the pleasure to know.

While you may turn SL into a giant bowl of vanilla pudding, in the long run, those who impinge on the freedoms of others end up very, very lonely.

- Kyle

W00t! Nazi card played. We can all go home now.

haha! it was more about the song lyrics, but okay! XD

Ah, not this Cherokee nutter again, she derailed one of the other 5 threads with all this nonsense.

LL know one thing....its citzens can never unite under one banner...too many self interests, too fragmented.....thats why they can push all these policy changes because they know we're too busy fighting amongst ourselves !

I debated compiling a list of First Nations friends, business and organizations your values clearly don't represent but I think it will be more fun for you to hear from them yourself.

Near as I can tell, nobody but you has made such self aggrandizing bombastic claims about who they allegedly represent but have, instead, made some concrete suggestions. Perhaps suggestions you don't like but suggestions nonetheless.

Seems to me the bulk of the folks here are content to try and discuss the matter at hand in a manner that, despite the occasional sidetrack is intended to find a way for ALL sides to have at least some of what they need to live their lives as they choose. I have, on at least two occasions, offered you some potentially useful suggestions for your project myself.

You accuse others of not taking action and justify your Al Haig "I'm in charge here." play on the flawed assumption that those who didn't act to launch a holy war on the community made the choice passively.

Consider the probability that they did so deliberately because they like it the way it is and don't want to make a shameful mockery of their cultural heritage by being the VERY sort of person that makes activism on behalf of aboriginal cultures the world over so vitally important.

There are so many constructive things that can be done with emerging technology. A pogrom isn't one of them.

- Kyle

Thanks Rene, its not our heritage at stake here its our freedoms. Freedoms many of us paid for buy buying the illusion of a mature sim. Slanderous remarks are there to provoke a side track from the real issue. So please lets focus and drive home the point there are easier means to subjugate "adult" content. The easier means seem to have been totally overlooked for a more "financial" means.

That's the problem though, the past model is being eaten away by the emergence of the open source community and its slow but steady growth. In the past we had no alternative but to knuckle under when LL went draconian on us. My fear is that they won't realize the ground has shifted under them until they do another major "alienation effort" and suddenly a measurable percentage of the population disappears. If it is something that hits the creative segment hardest, how does LL recover? I enjoy my SL and my biggest fear is not having my store relocated to pornland, it's that some other "feature" will be snuck in at the same time that disrupts the business, blocking unverified accounts from the XXX continent for example. Once my sales drop below my costs, it's time to close up shop and migrate. Really the economy is the only killer app benefit SL has over OS, if LL borks that, then I'm gone.

Patasha

Ok I have a legitimate question for the Adult Industry folks posting

I have read a whole lot in the past couple of days and I am hearing that a lot of those in the Adult Industry do not want their own continent. I find that a bit surprising. As I would think that if you all were together; there would be some benefits.

Topping my list would be;
Accessibility. Virtual bar hoping sounds like fun to me Hell that could even be an event clubs could organize.
Knowing that your patrons are adults. Or at least that LL has taken steps to protect you against the kids who have lied to get onto the main. (We all know kids are on the grid.)
More opportunities within your community; networking/job opportunities.

Probably more that I have not thought of. I think it could be new and exciting.

Cat

ACK sorry it's late

The Question;

What is the main reason you do not want a continent of your own?

Nobody who has purchased land is either a) going to voluntarily move to a so called "adult continent" b) like being forced to move there and c) provide "confidential information ie credit cards, birth certificates, military id and etc" to a 3rd party. How exactly will "adult content" be determined. Is a sex bed, stripping, nudity or photos/references enough to be considered adult? If so then there is a lot of that "type" of content just laying around out there in mature regions today and moving all of that would upset a large percentage of Second Life's paying land owners. To tell the truth there is no "Fool Proof" method that will ensure that the Main Grid is protected from minors. If credit card became a verified method Linden Labs would not be able to prevent minors from accessing the Main Grid because today anyone can go out and purchase a prepaid credit card and use it. Like I said before there is "no fool proof" way to prevent unauthorized access but by keeping verification voluntary it may not be the best for security but to keep people happy it will have to do. Unless Linden Labs comes up with some combination of verification methods that works for most people in most countries, is simple enough and is not providing information that is "against the law" in some European countries.


On a side note creating adult oriented regions that would exist in Second Life will work. People would voluntarily migrate to regions rated "Adult" because it would give them a clear description of what is expected in that region and separate it from mature content. There would not be a need for an entire continent to them selves but individual regions as already exist for "Mature". The main grid would have select regions and "Adult" islands would be available for purchase. Verification would need to be optional to encourage moving and allow for not verified individuals to access the regions and it would further. This I believe is the ultimate solution I see being created to further manage the adult content issues.

From my perspective, it is those who will want to silence any agreement with Linden Lab's policy change that are intolerant. And the reason I have become a spokesperson for Native Americans here is that no one else who is actually enrolled will speak up. Organizations are coming to me and asking me to speak for Native Americans because I am the only one they can find. It is your fault, not mine, that you have failed to represent your tribe and yourself here.

And please do have these people get in touch. Thanks.

suddenly a line from "the cable guy" springs to mind.

First off, what is adult, is the big question.

Secondly i imagine that several clubs all offering the same thing don't want to be stuffed next to each other.

Thirdly, many of us are not adult content, we are concerned about land valuse on the mainland.

forth, the moves on the mainland is just one aspect of this change. The biggest hit is to the mature private sims, the thousands of account holders that do not for various reasons want to give LL credit card info, etc

My post was a question to the Adult Industry folks posting here. If your not that's kewl.

I found out about this subject today- I went to the blog to comment on the "definitions" thread- the thread has been closed already.

Well, that was useful, wasn't it?

As I see it, there is one issue here. One single issue. SL users have the idea that their in-world experience should be completely tailored to *their* liking, and they should never have to deal with, see, hear, or experience anything that doesn't match their fantasy/expectations.
This is an *impossible* goal- both for SL users and for LL. Trying to meet it means that LL will be catering to the *most* easily offended users (because, of course, they will continue to complain, until SL meets *their* needs, regardless of how many others are happy with it). Catering to the most easily offended will means that LL will have to treat the majority of SL users in a *punitive* fashion- driving them away.

Nobody has freedom *from* offense. I get offended every time I see one human being leading another by a leash, or some woman in silks referring to herself as "girl". but it *isn't* my business, unless they involve me beyond my just *seeing* them. If I go to something called a "sex mall", then I expect to see and hear things that I might not agree with. But *I* am the one to TP'd there. the mall was there, I chose to go, it's *my* fault, not theirs.
Why should *they* have to pay for *my* lack of foresight? Why should *they* have to guess what *my* standards are?
Mark my words, this is only the beginning. Much simpler to create a small island where the easily offended can go to be by themselves.
How to figure out if you're easily offended? if you have filed more than five AR's over *content* in the last month, you're easily offended. If you feel the need to police other people to the degree that you have complained to LL 5 times in the last month over how someone or their land *looked*, rather than what they *did*, then you'd probably be happier elsewhere, and LL can safely ignore your definition of "offensive".

Just my two cents
V

Cat - In my post above it's not the idea of moving my store to Ye Olde Perv Street, it's "will the lindens deny access to a sizable population because they don't meet some criteria".

Also brought up by Arcadian was club ownership. If someone has a club that isn't sex oriented, but the plays a requested song with explicit lyrics, ala - Girlfriend by Avril Lavigne, in a sim that's not designated XXX, does the club owner find himself facing suspension for violating the new land policy?

That's on the business side.

On the "living" side, it's.. if I have my house which is considered private and not public in a current Mature Sim, is LL going to force settle me into a sim filled with 30 meter high ads for "sechs nao" because I have a bed that has naughty poses in it. Even though my house is not considered public access currently?

Patasha

Thanks Patasha

I am honestly on the fence on a lot of these issues. When in doubt ask

and "Ye olde Perv Street" made me LOL.

Again that depends on what the LL calls adult.

I own a club with poles and it offers private dance rooms.

And no i don't want to be stuffed into a area with 12 other clubs.

Hell the native art down from Nany's store could end up being classed adult and be forced to move.

So could the weapons store.

Thanks Samatha I wasn't sure if you were a concerned estate owner or a adult industry business owner. Thanks for clarifying for me and answering my question.


Cat

Actually i am both.<smiles>

I was going to edit my post above but I saw your new post and decided just to respond.

You asked what is adult. Well this is just my opinion on 2 things;

I think it is safe to say that XXXClub owners and Stripper clubs are in the adult industry; I form that opinion from RL. Not a damn thing wrong with that either

Cat

They have and will continue to do so. Some right on these very boards.

Tell me do represent these tribes?
The Mojave who run at least one Casino currently showing "The Last House on the Left" in their theatre?

Mohegan Tribe of Connecticut whose Casino is promoting a Britney Spears show with the PussyCat Dolls as the opening act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussycat_Dolls

Think the list is too short? How much time do you think this absurdity is actually worth?

Put some time in on your own and actually think about cultural diversity. It's not nearly so black and white an issue as you seem to think.

- Kyle

Beg to differ Nany, you are getting slammed from all sides by those who are speaking up. I have little doubt the Lindens if that is the "who" you are speaking of, will be taking note of your lack of support from the demographic you claim to represent.

Now I ask again, where is this forum being held on Friday and at what time?

And again WHO are these organizations you have been 'approached' by. Are you afraid to tell us because you know when they hear from us you will be found out and a demagogue who stifles debate? Or is it more what I suspect that they are merely your your sock puppet for you to say "look at all my friends"? You are the one claiming to be here in an official capacity, if that is true then identify who you are representing. Shoot, Nany, even the most lame survey spammers in resident answers offer their affiliations when they post. If you are really so sure none of the rest of us actually have valid Tribal affiliations then it shouldn't bother you in the least to give us your credentials. If we really don't have room to critique you within the Native community then by telling us who you are affiliated with will only punk us out when we confront you to them because we have no real accreditation ourselves. True?

Look at our other posts, we are the ones offering suggestions and ideas for the Lindens about what they could possibly implement to affect this transition with as little disruption to the current population. All you do is hurl insults and innuendos to anyone who disagrees with you.

Patasha

ok but what happens when they say fetish wear is all adult. Then who decides what is fetish wear?

What about nude pictures? What is adult and what is art?

Is a place that provide sexual orientation information adult?

Sexual education??

All I am doing is agreeing with Linden Lab's proposal. Linden Labs gives me that option. This is their forum.

I sincerely hope they implement the plan as outlined. A lot of Indian people can use a new way to make some money here without leaving the rez. A lot of non-Indian people can use a new way to make money here, for that matter.

All any of us have to do is look at your profile to see what you are and what you represent.

All you have to do is look the conference up for yourself.