Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Of course she is. And we're entitled to ask her reasonable questions about them.

Sounds nice!
The place Caitlyn (who you met at KIDS5B) and I have right now is more grown than designed. Trees, treehouses, a cave, a ritual circle. If the TG Lounge goes, buying all of that expensive roadside will have been for nothing though.

Everyone knows that public sex is disreputable, even people who engage in it, profit from it and defend it.

The arguments here that no one can tell the difference between what is overtly sexual and what is not are bs.

Everyone knows that attacking non-sexual businesses and private relationships under the shadow of "public sex" is disreputable, too.

True but my conscience kicked in and I said something before the torches were lit

What offends me about her posts is that she is passing moral judgement. THAT to me is offensive, not that she is representing a differing viewpoint. She's attacking whole countries, for hell's sake. Once you resort to the ad hominem, the gloves are off.

The fact that you feel no adult has the common sense to stay out of areas they do not approve of without the SL POLICE stopping them from going there is BS.

The whole point of sims having descriptions etc is to warn those that do not wish to engage in or see certain lifestyles to stay out.

Your belief it seems to be, they should all be gotten rid of period. So what thing you believe in will be deemed inapproprate and removed before you see this is a bad idea??

So you are trying to say that, if you go to an inworld "public" escort service, everyone around you isn't going to like you as much now? You're reputation for going there will be ruined?

IF that is the point you are getting at, I'd have to wonder how many of the people you actually know that you are doing such a think. There are very few people that are "well known" throughout SecondLife, and they would be the only ones with any reputation to lose, if that, for going to such a place.

Seriously, how many of your friends are you going to boast to about going to a public in-world escort service? Would you or anyone else really give up such private information?

Sorry I ask a lot of questions, but no one should have a high enough reputation to possible lose for going to anything of the sort.

maybe thats why its called second life...
so we can live as we wish with anonymity.
we can be what we want to be here.
and try things we could not dream of in the real world.
not only sexuality but all sorts of role play.
star wars is big so i hear.
bit violent for me though, ban it!

Why else would that strip club have been 2 block's down "America's Main Street" from the White House? Government peeps.

I realize now that I've merged two separate issues in that example.

- The main function of the build (an old west sim with a discreet brothel in it, not a brothel sim).
- The opportunity to create graphic content (the furniture in the brothel) distinct from *providing* graphic content (it does not actually employ any prostitutes).

Both of these are probably worth considering if there's still time. If the first is one of the criteria, mostly-PG builds that have a few sprinkles that currently make them "mature" are spared having to remove them or move. If the second is, then a store that sells sex furniture (assuming no sexually graphic displays) doesn't have to move, while a club that uses that same furniture to provide sexual entertainment does.

The biggest sex industry and public sex service I know so far, is called: Nature Inc.

(CEO unknown, by the way)

Huge factory. Called universe... on the macro-level.

Genetics, on the micro-level.

And yes, they use it, in public!, with every sign of life and if it's only a smile, or an eye-twinker in direction audience.

Thingy works in all of us 24h a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. No matter what we're wearing or not and what we're doing or not, it is permanent active, in all our expressions, even while sleeping, known or not.

It works also for flowers and animals and it sends permanent signals, well, like the red light....

The blossom of a rose...-for example... a literal redlight-district, small, yes, but if a bee is in near..., bingo!

There have numerous posts asking simple questions to extremely difficult questions, very few have been answered or even acknowledged. There have been Intelligent discussion and suggestions and narrow-minded discussions and suggestions.

One simple question for Blondin or LL or anyone for that matter:

When and why did the definition of mature become PG?

But isn't that what the issue is really? What are we personally offended by something in SL. What crosses the line and what doesn't? Would you find her more offensive if you saw her words on billboards plastered all over SL? Or would you be less offended knowing you could walk away from them? She seems personally offended by virtual prostitution.

I think some of us being offended personally is why these issues are being brought to the forefront by LL.

If you take away her right to pass her own moral judgment; then you have taken away your right to do the same.

I am a libra we like balance

I see that Nany has taken over the forum again. I'll come back tomorrow when we can talk about somthing other than Nany.

"Catherine: For example; A friend of mine happened upon a death scene that showed an elaborate noose scene. She was highly offended because her husband had hung himself"

Not meaning to be offensive btu how do you happen upon things cause in all my time in SL i have never seen anything i have not chosen to look at.
I am sorry about her husband, someone close to me was killed and I often see very similar portrayals on TV some even being the nightly news . Am I offended this is shown and hits me no its life same as things in SL show the other side of people in but I chose to see them or be involved. You chose to go and look for yourself, why?
I think with many who are complaining about what goes on in the Mature sims are trying to play Mary Whitehouse. If you dont want to see it stay out of the Mature areas, dont have mature clicked onyour search and you wont see what you dont want.
Hell I think someone smoking is sickening and makes my skin crawl LL as children are not allowed to smoke can you please move this to the adult sim also or ban AVs from smoking in anything other than the new adult

Unless you are going to lock yourself in a room with no doors or windows and no access to any outside influences, you can't avoid coming across things that will offend you. Sometimes you have to just move on.

You don't have to imagine it. Go look. Check it out. Bring a whole bunch of one dollar bills. Go when it's not too busy. You will be shocked to discover many of those who work there are educated, talented and capable people with bright futures ahead of them.

Now we know the sort of thinking that is driving this issue and the shocking ignorance behind it. The rest of the word is categorically not this narrow-minded or shallow. BBC as in [bold]paid for by taxes[/bold] television, broadcast television, includes images of nudity and includes coarse language. Prostitution is LEGAL in many countries throughout the world and Playboy is available in most newsstands of any significant size in every major US metropolitan area.

I defy you to find anyone over the age of 35 in a hundred-mile radius of any major metropolitan area of the US who has not been to or been invited to an exotic club or event for a Bachelor or Bachelorette party at least once. I [bold]promise[/bold] you George W. Bush, John McCain, Barack Obama, and even Chad 'Corntassel' Smith have all at one or more points in their lives been present in a public or nominally public setting for an overtly sexual erotic dance performance.

The sheer narrow-mindedness of this is just staggering. Have you, even once, discussed your options for making your project a more walled garden experience with the Lindens? Have you, even [bold]once[/bold] looked at estate controls, affiliate-framed signup and welcoming models like any of those created for CSI and The L Word? Have you even looked at this page?: [link]http://secondlifegrid.net/technology-programs/join-solution-provider-program[/link]

Until we can move the discussion to one about making it possible for people who want adult content in any form to find it, and those who don't want it in any form to be able to put on a reliable set of blinders not to see it this whole discussion is academic at best. The model is simple: Create a sanitized content. Allow any who currently own land to move there for free in an even swap on condition they never so much as blink anything questionable. Flip all currently 'Mature' sims to 'opted-in' sims and have the opt-in simply state: 'I swear under penalty of law that I am over 18 years old and have chosen to see unfiltered content that may include graphic sex, violence or other material some may find objectionable.'

There will be a LOT less work for The Lindens to move the portion of people who don't want their visitors, guests and customers to have clicked such an agreement. The current community standards and existing land and search controls continue to police RP sims etc. into being behind warnings and telehubs.

Owners of entire Sims can move them to the 'clean continent' if they agree to adhere to the standards of cleanliness they impose. Those who choose to filter their experience can enjoy lovely open spaces and low traffic low lag.

It's just [bold]cheaper and easier[/bold] to do this way and the community can gravitate where the community wants to.

Nany's constituency can feel safe because they have to act [bold]proactively[/bold] to see what they don't like and the rest of us can decide whether or not that 'constituency' should have the option to buy, visit, look at or enjoy our content.

Lindens, just add another layer of 'lobby' after newbie Island(s) and have it be your PG Continent(s) and private sims owned by those who want to be there agree to be purely PG. Put up a giant red set of ban lines around it, hide all Mature content from search and intercept teleports with an opt-in dialog box. Why is this difficult?

- Kyle

Teasers Men's Club
315 W Main St, Durham, NC

Envy Gentlemens Club
101 Main St S, Minot, ND

Gold Digger Cabaret
11305 Main St, Houston, TX‎

Bachelor's Parties and Exotic Stripper Service
513 S Main Street, Las Vegas, NV‎

Planet Rock
129 N Main St, Barre, VT

Diamond Lounge
10749 N Main St, Jacksonville, FL

Torch
1826 W Main St, Boise, ID

Blue Moon Cabaret
534 Main St, New Paltz, NY‎

Big Al's
519 Main St, Peoria, IL

Wrap Gentleman's Club
27 N Main St, White River Junction, VT

Centerfold Exotic Show Lounge
1155 Main St, Green Bay, WI

Hunt Room One Star Gentlemen's Club
5701 Main St, Houston, TX

Kongo Club
4901 N Main St, Mitchell, SD

Tiki Cabaret
2315 S Main St, High Point, NC‎

CJ's Revenge
204 W Main St, Glenville, MN‎

You did ask.

I can only speak for myself here I happen upon some really wild stuff. Then again I have been in sl since 2003 and I do explore SL. Matter of fact exploring is one of my favorite parts of SL. Ya never know who your going to meet and what your going to see. The majority of what I see good, some parts are horrid, and some are exceptional.

How about LL give each are know Island with No set up fee and at are current tier rate?

First I am going to say right off the bat that I've run a MUD for many many years so I'm not just some crank but come at this with the viewpoint of an adminstrator.

Age verification, that is forcing people to indentify themselves, will drastically change this game or the residents will adapt in ways that are predictable and unpredicatable which will require even more heavy handed enforcement and starts a cycle that will be very unpleasant.

Many people want to play their online games with as little ability to be tracked to their real lives as possible. Some people rather that linden labs or anyone else not know they role play a giant ground sloth who frequents strip clubs or any other possibility. Many, even though they play rather plain and ordinary avatars would rather just remain anonymous. Or maybe they just don't want their info on LL's (or a contractor's) servers where someone else might get it.

The first response is that they can just stay out the 'adult content' areas. Then there is the question of what 'adult content' is. It could easily become anything that is beyond 'look at the pretty sim' and here's another dance floor. It's a subjective call.

Now for the sake of argument say LL manages to do the impossible and draw an adult content line that nearly everyone can agree to. Somehow making a perfect subjective call. Killing Klingons by phaser fire is okay while the bloody death of orcs by a battle axe is adult content. Pregnancy isn't adult content but a nude beach is. Making these sort of calls all the way down the line. The problem remains. People will be shut out of the sims they want to go and will not wish to give their info.

One predictable result is some rarely traveled corner of the PG world will be untilized for their prefered adult content. They'll be found and stamped out only to pop up somewhere else. It could result in conditions where people who could have avoided the content they didn't want to see will run into it because now people are using sims not set up for it.

Enforcement and monitoring will need to become rather heavy handed. sandboxes will need to be closed down or highly restricted to shut down instant-strip-clubs and much more. Creating content will get a lot more difficult as more and more places have the build light turned off so people can't rez stuff. Then they'll find ways to role play even with the rezzing restrictions. Then there are unpredictable things that players come up with. I can even still be surprised at what a new rule or reg will do.

What I do know is that a decision like this will have an irreversible impact on the game. Changing the rules back will not fully repair damage done.

I'm taking it you have never been to Times Square in NYC?

or

Charlottesburg WV

or

Oklahoma City OK

or

Pittsburg PA

or

anywhere on I-70 between Kansas City KS and Wheeling WV.

All with strip clubs/XXX stores in centralized shopping/entertainment districts or on main throughfares

Very bad indeed, as I have an adopted child as my daughter living with me. However, if the estate I'm living in gets flagged as adult because there's a strip club on the estate, then I'll have to kick my daughter out on her ass. Very nice, LL!

The problem is, Second Life has been turned into a strip club. Everyone who comes here appears to be visiting a strip club. Every business and organization that sets up here appears to be set up in a strip club. Yes, of course, most of the people here try to remain anonymous. But you can't remain anonymous if you are trying to do real world business that pays real world salaries of any kind.

There are a range of very productive people who are associated with their SL avatars in real life, stuggling to make better use of this place. And no, we don't like admitting we are in this mess. We don't want our real world associates seeing this mess.

I'm not sympathetic with the needs of the sex industry. They are not sympathetic with the needs of RL education and business. Fair enough. We will slug it out and see who wins.