Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Yeh, Blondin, I want a bear!

Agreed in principle. However, in practice, this will be a very difficult thing to arbitrate.

Right now, most clubs are pretty well spread out from each other. I don't think I've ever seen more than one club on a single sim. There's a whole lot of PG-rated commercial and residential space between clubs on the mainland currently. If all these clubs get clustered in Pornodelphia (Yes, Brenda, you have a meme ), then all that "green space" is gone, and we will have all these high-traffic venues fighting for shared resources. The only way to really prevent this is if LL is willing to give each and every club transplanted to the new adult region its very own sim, with no increase in tiers from what each is presently paying.

I don't see that as very likely.

I agree wholeheartedly, even though some of our emotes can get rather bawdy... *grins*

Maybe, in the end, these strip clubs will remain on mature land, and only the actual sex clubs will get moved. Perhaps that's where this 2-4% figure is coming from.

and on that note, I think my plate of fried pork wings are ready.

The term 'adult content' has been used throughout all the threads on this issue. However, what has not been discussed fully is 'adult behaviour'.

If the purpose of moving adult content to a new adult continent is to protect the eyes of those who do not wish to see it, or those too young to see it, then what about adult behaviour, which can be much more graphic than products?

I see nothing in the proposals to prevent someone in a mature sim from seeing their neighbour setting up some very adult poseballs, and 'products' they have bought in the adult continent, on their lawn and inviting a bunch of friends over for a mass open-air orgy or BDSM event.

Are these kind of adult activities currently being addressed?

Rock

Patasha If i remember correctly not to long ago there was a push to ban Bugs Bunny from TV because it was deemed to violent for children so you may want to rethink that point

Well, in my case it's because I'd gotten tired of MUDs and Mucks and someone told me that you could write real programs to do things in SL, so it was more like a 3d MUD than just a chat or talker.

It's all about the scripting.

Well, in my case it's because I'd gotten tired of MUDs and Mucks and someone told me that you could write real programs to do things in SL, so it was more like a 3d MUD than just a chat or talker.

It's all about the scripting.
Mama mia! Let me go!

I KNOW, that the majority of us business owners feel perfectly comfortable, right where we are!

If you feel the need to make a safe area for the kiddies and the folks that can't deal with reality, make a PG sim and move them there. Either way the issue still remains. Forcing one group or another to "register" as anything is flat out wrong. This whole idea is going to strip millions of L$ from the economy, and cause major loss of residents.

I don't appreciate being forced to "register" myself like some despicable sex offender, just because some of my content is "adult in nature".

The overriding point of all of this is that teens have no business on the adult grid, period. Putting them there is a big mistake. Force thousands of business owners to "relocate" voluntary or not is a big mistake.

You are not alone. From everything I have seen and everyone I have talked to it sounds like an overwhelming majority do not want it!

Lindens: How did you gather stats on whether or not people wanted this? I am sure most of us never even heard of this proposal before the blog?

Having a clear line defined for all users is going to be the big one for LL.

But for any seperation of content to go ahead, users need to know where they stand, are mature areas going to remain liberal to an extent or will mature end up equating to PG.

The strictness of LL's definition is the only aspect of this proposal that concerns me.

I have no desire to hold land in some sort of virtual porno hell, but neither do I have a desire to own PG land and have my options severely restricted.

I assume most users would feel exactly the same.

I think the majority of the people opposing this are not "part of the adult industry". They're just people who are afraid that a sweep of "the adult industry" is going to sweep up them or their friends.

I think the majority of the people opposing this are not "part of the adult industry". They're just people who are afraid that a sweep of "the adult industry" is going to sweep up them or their friends.
I might, even though the raciest animation I've rezzed on Avalon Lagoon or the Coonspiracy is a "cuddle", simply because I don't want to find our group ARed because someone's got something in their home that some G-Team member doesn't like. And I don't want to have to start regulating where people can build and what they have in their places.
Blondin has commented on this. The answers are "not if it's in a private house", "yes", "not if it's non-sexual nudity (eg, a nude beach)", and "not if it's in a private house". He's also said that they're looking at "intent". So a sex bed in something styled like a "wild-west brothel" would be adult.

He seems a little unworldly, but open-minded.

My concern is that there's been examples of the G Team not being "open-minded".

Reasonable requests that you support your claims are not "silencing you". Unless you can't support your claims.

A bit late showing my support for this well-reasoned response, but you have it. (Gee this thread grows quickly when you're not logged in all the time!)

Lindens: is there a timeline already decided for this process? If any of the timeline is known, what is it?

(and, no, 'we are gathering information before we decide that' is not an answer: yes with details [like date of move, how much time to move, and so on] or a simple no)

It's not a "proposal".

This forum thread is for discussion with Linden Labs of how best to make the upcoming transition safe and effective for all parties. If you have no proposals of how to do that, you're wasting your time, our time, and Linden Labs' time. If what you're posting *are* proposals of how to do that, then you need to support them and expand on them.

Good point. I myself am not involved with the sex industry. I am not into RP. I have my own private mainland home in a Mature sim and a business in a PG sim. In theory, I should be indifferent to LL's new policy, but those who live a quiet life in the leaves must heed termites chewing the roots.

I think this is very true - I am just a happy fur-covered doggie, naked without my hats, innocently wandering through the grid, so this won't impact me, I don't think, unless it's decided that being a furry little dog earns a bannination to Pornadelphia, but I worry about what all this means for my sex-loving friends.


Anyone who speaks out in favor of it seems to be branded as a troll and attacked, so I'd be surprised if many people publicly admit to wanting this to happen. Besides, does it really matter whether or not we want it? It's happening, and all we have input on is the definitions.

This thread seems to have veered wildly, and Linden input at this point is scarce. Is anyone going to put this thread out of its misery yet? Let's get to working on our definitions of what and what isn't destined for removal to Porntopia.

First off, I apologize if this was posted into the wrong discussion group. Moderators may of course move it to whatever group it may be more relevant to.

Ok that said, now let's be realistic, we all encounter 'adult content' in some form or another in the real world, how we deal with it is our own choice (those of you trying to force your opinion that adult content should be banned or whatever should reread that last comment 'our own choice'). In real life if we see objectionable material on television we always have the option of changing the channel (of course there is always the fact that for most people 'television program listings' are readily available, that would inform us prior to even turning on the television that the channel we are going to tune into may infact contain objectionable material!! Immediately giving the person the option of not tuning in to that channel). Additionally if you encounter 'objectionable material' on your private radio, you always have the option of turning the radio off or tuning in to a station that has material that you don't find objectionable. If you see a 'sexy' billboard advertising deodorant or underwear or some other product no one and I repeat NO ONE is FORCING you to look at it, you always have the option of turning your head away from it or simply ignoring it altogether, I may not like something that you enjoy viewing or participating in, but that does not automatically give me the right to force MY opinions on the subject matter on you and make you abide by my personal feelings on such matters.

My point is that 'objectionable material' is present all around us day and night, yet most of us manage to go through our daily lives just fine even with it there. Additionally the places search in SL notifies you that the place you are about to teleport to is an area where 'Mature' content may be encountered even before you actually go there, just like knowing that you are travelling through a 'seedy neighborhood' in real life should alert you to the fact that you may encounter things like strip clubs and porno shops among other types of possibly 'objectionable material', if it doesn't then maybe you need to crawl out from under the rock you've been living under for the last couple hundred years and look around, the real world wasn't created for just one particular type of person to inhabit it, nor was SL. I guess one thing I was thinking of when I began writing this post is the fact that here in the United States of America our Constitution was founded on the very principle of tolerance, not just tolerance of other people's religious background, but tolerance of such things as their nationality, their ethnicity, their social habits, their personal habits!!!

I guess another one of my points is that if you encounter 'objectionable material' in SL anyplace you ALWAYS have the option of going elsewhere or practicing some degree of tolerance, or of course even logging off, any of those choices may be YOUR choice!!

I'm not saying that there isn't some need for improvement in the way access to mature areas is handled, maybe something similar to the standard warning you find on adult websites, something to the effect that "By remaining on this property you accept the fact that you may be exposed to material that you may find offensive or distasteful, furthermore you indicate that it is not illegal for you be it due to age or real life locale to view or interact with material of this nature". And due to the fact that so many people on the internet do infact lie about their ages age verification is a valid idea in my opinion, and before anyone complains about that, consider the lawsuits you hear about on the news where a child managed to gain access to an adult site because the parent did not take a more active role in limiting that childs exposure to things of that nature. It's high time we made parents and even minors responsible for their actions or lack of action in matters of this nature, instead of just pointing the finger at the person that posted the information on the internet and trying to say 'it's your fault', maybe we need to give them the ability to say 'no it's your fault for not monitoring your childs internet access, or for not educating them about the fact that it may be illegal for them to access sites of this particular nature', there's been entirely too much finger pointing and not enough making people take responsibility for their own actions!!

Getting back to the issue of age verification, I believe Linden Labs has done a great deal to make it simple for anyone of legal age to verify their age and hence at least give some indication of whether they can legally view some of the material contained in SL. I myself utilized the Drivers License method of age verification, many other web sites that require age verification give you only one option typically, the use of a 'Credit Card' wherein the site will obtain the date of birth for the person holding the card. I realize that in many cases non US citizens may think that they can't use any of the age verification methods that Linden Labs has provided but let's be real again here, all across the world banks issue 'Debit Cards' or 'Credit Cards' and typically applying for them is fairly simple, in most cases with 'Debit Cards' from my experience you are often allowed so many transactions a month for free and then you may be charged a small fee, additionally most of these cards are usable at locations that accept 'Credit Cards' (including online age verification at websites, I know this from personal experience using my debit card for such a purpose). Additionally SL (not TeenSL) is designed for adults above the age of 18 anyway, so theoretically you shouldn't even be in SL unless you are 18 or older, if you are underage then as far as I know you are in violation of the terms of service agreement (viewed by some countries as representing a binding contract between 2 parties). Also I know that in the USA it is illegal for a minor to enter into a legally binding contract without parental consent (in most states at least).

Hopefully people will take everything I've said here (especially about your own choice to expose yourself to 'objectionable material' or not based on the choice you make to either stay in the region that contains said material or deciding to leave that region) in mind and realize that we each live our own lives our own way, as well we should be permitted to (even our SL lives). Again It's entirely up to EACH individual to limit his/her/it's own exposure to material they find objectionable, NOT force their opinions on such matters onto others, I feel this applies just as much in SL as it does in the real world.

Thank you everyone,
Aeronya Arai

Neptune, you juat made the point for us.

These Clubs are not on one sim, nore do they in most cases hog resources, but the Lindens want to stuff them all in to one area. So now we all know most of these place are here to make money, so that assumes they get customers. So lets stuff them all in one smalla rea and watch the sims get maxed and the lag as well.

presently they are all spread out in mature rate sims where they were told they should be.

Club owners bought land based partly on teh fact there was no other clubs near by them.

Expending on this. Is it my home if myself and a friend put our land in the same group so we can build together? Across the park from where I grew up was a group of houses owned by three separate families with gardens, garage, and connecting buildings all built together in a harmonious theme. Two of the families were related by marriage, but so far as I know the bonds that held them together were friendship and a love of beauty.

Yes, indeed. Particularly when ban lines peter out so low. If they would introduce something like http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-205 concurrently with this change it would be VERY helpful in resolving a lot of people's concerns. Someone could put their sex bed in a privacy pocket at 3500 meters and that would be the end of it.
Either it's low, or they haven't explained their actual intentions well enough. It could be that they are REALLY only talking about flagrantly explicit public sex shows, and it's gotten blown out of proportion. They've certainly been taken by surprise by some of the responses.

I see no line. I'm a mature adult. That's enough for me to make my own judgments, thank you very much.

All Linden Labs is going to say to that is "we're not merging the two grids, this is not about merging the two grids, we haven't announced a merge".

just in case some of you missed this

No, people who spout blind, dogmatic assertions or deliberately provoke the community with flamboyant and asinine comments are branded trolls.

I support age verification in my post "Sanity, Not Sanitation". Some people have provided good reasons to reconsider age verification. As yet, I am unconvinced, but this forum is so fragmented that it's hard to actually have a debate. Mostly, though, this forum seems to be an outpouring of anger at a poorly formulated policy striking at the core nature and philosophy of Second Life.

They are already against the Terms of Service.