Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Some of us find slavery in *any* form revolting. Personally, I don't go to gorean sims to do anything buy shop in the "no-rp areas, and I get irate with "gorean masters" who take their slaves out to shop for skins or whatever, and then RP in public chat while they are in a public space.

However, Like you, I don't get the lindens involved- I handle it on a personal level. I'll *talk* to people, and ask them to take it to IM. If they respond in a hostile fashion (which is usually- Don't quite understand that) then I ridicule the testosterone-poisoned individual until he goes away.
I know RL lifestyle goreans- they *don't* behave this way in public. If they *did*, then they *most definitiely* be restricted in RL.

As for John Norman's books, the only reason they aren't kept behind the counter is that for some reason, Western culture seems to think that it's only porn if it has pictures.
I'd argue that Norman's works are *far* more "pornographic" in the classic sense than the most graphic sexual acts between two *consenting* adults.

Of course, that's just *my* standard- I wouldn't dream of asking LL to *enforce* it!

V

Them People That Complain Know Whats Goes On In What Club It Is There Choice To Go There So Why Do We Who Make A Living Have To Suffer Its Just Like The Rl Smokeing Ban People Who Smoke Knows It Goes On In Bars But They Still Choice To Go There So Its There Choice To Be Around The Smoke Just Like Its There Choice If They Go Into Them Clubs To And See What Goes On There If They Dont Like What Goes On There Then Maybe They Shouldnt Go There. Come On Its Only CommON Sense If You Dont Like Whats Goes On In Them Place Duh Dont Go There If You Dont Like How Second Life Is Played Heres A Idea Dont Play It Noone Forces Them People To Go To Them Places Hello It Called A Tp Button For Reason You Can Leave Anytime You Want. Its Also Called A Off Switch Use It Some Of Us Come On Secondlife To Do What We Cant Not Do In Rl Cause Of Our Rights Being Taken Away So Why Do We Have To Suffer Here To And Have No Rights

The thing that concerns me about this is the loss of freedom. The reason why I enjoy SL is because of the freedom that it gives me to be who I am.

I have tried age verification, however it has failed for me every time. I don't want to have to go through the manual process especially because I am missing one of the required documents (a utility bill with your name on it). Although I am a legal adult, I am still living with my parents so I don't get utility bills. Once I start attending college I still won't get a utility bill, so how can I prove to them I am a legal adult? Personally I think LL needs to back off and let the community run itself. Why make age verification a requirement? If a minor wants to get access to adult content they don't need SL to do it. Pornography sites do not require you to verify your age, they require you to press a button saying that you are a legal adult. In my opinion it is absurd to try and protect minors like this. They can still get themselves into trouble anywhere else on the internet. Yes I do agree that some minors make SL less enjoyable, but there are many minors out there who blend in with the adult population perfectly. They are responsible, and mature. They do not harm SL.

And what about those people who need SL to stay in touch with their loved ones? I have seen many cases where circumstances in the real world have kept two lovers apart, with their only way to interact being through SL until they can get together in real life. I have been in this situation many times myself.


What happened to giving responsibility to the consumers? Have we all gone lawsuit happy and caused the corporations to go to extremes to counteract these ridiculous lawsuits that are filling our courts? It's time to bring the fault back to the consumers. Personal freedom should not be restricted like this just because some minors who weren't mature logged onto a game and got themselves in a bad situation. Or maybe we should blame their parents for not teaching them how to act like a responsible and mature adult. Yes there is a time and place to act immature, but that isn't on an adult service.

Overall I believe that age verification needs to be ended. Yes I think parcels and sims should be labeled as mature, but that shouldn't restrict anyone from entering them. Nor do I think any sims with adult content should be restricted to anyone. Personally I'd rather see minors here in the adult areas of SL than out on the internet. The internet contains pornography that can be extremely disturbing. I'm not saying all pornography is disturbing, I'm just saying that the internet is a vast world and it does contain a lot of disturbing things.

Summary:
Remove age verification
Mark parcels as being mature (but do NOT restrict access to anyone)
Leave the responsibility and liability to the consumer and parents. LL should not be liable if a minor gets into trouble on SL.


If you wish to discuss this with me you may contact me at any time on SL.


Edit:
Perhaps instead of marking a sim or parcel as mature, maybe a new system should be introduced in which you may mark a sim or parcel as being mature and STATE THE REASON. This would prevent adults who do not wish to see certain content from seeing that content.

Even the US Supreme Court struck down the internet censorship law, COPA (Child Online Protection Act) as it is unenforceable, violated the First and Fifth Amendments, and is an encroachment to privacy by collecting private information about individuals.

See http://epic.org/free_speech/copa/

Internet censorship is dead in the water.

If the RL cannot unhold the conservative dictatorship, how do you think SL can survive the outcry of their residents?

Problem: I don't like a post I see on the forum
Solution: I mute the poster

Problem: I don't like a post I see on the forum
LL's logic: Move the post to a different part of the forum out of the thread it was in, then flag it as adult and don't allow it to be read by anyone without PIOF.


Problem: Folks in SL don't like seeing stuff which they don't like
Solution: Give people a means to control what they see without making others have to move away!

Yes, because Supreme Court already struck down COPA (Child Online Protection Act), http://epic.org/free_speech/copa/ so there is no law that requires age verification on the internet any more. That law is already DEAD.

So what's the excuse for LL to impose a dead law in a dreamworld?

If I don't like you, would you give me a warning label to mute you before I even see you? Will I require LL to give me that stupid warning? What is the search word filter to avoid seeing your face?

I thought that we were only talking about the worst of the worst, Blondin. Since when is "overtly sexual" considered on the same level with "crunchy decapitations"?

Until there is a standard issued from LL, nobody will have any idea whether they can live with it. Until they know whether they can live with it, they don't know if they'll stay or go, and until they know whether they'll stay or go, LL won't have any idea how such a change will affect their bottom line.

*FAR* easier to create a new *PG* continent and harshly enforce the community standard. That makes it "predictable" for corporate, the sensitive, and the new. Start folks there, and allow them to branch out as *they* wish. implement client-side content filters, and *voluntary* flagging for landowners to match. and Yes, if it's that big a deal, require some sort of payment info on file, but allow paypal, pre-pay cards, etc. to preserve anonymity.

Of course, if you set things up where you could tie several alts to the same account, that would solve a lot of problems too.

-V-

"Adult"

If the priests molest children, then you should keep all children from churches.

Priests are sociopath too, don't forget!

You should filter all the words that come out of the pastor's sermon to keep our children safe too.

It is insane and absurd to think such control freak behavior ever work in RL.

If it doesn't work in RL, why do you think it works in SL? Hitler

Who is more dangerous, Hitler or sociopath?

Since when is this about what would make store owners "more comfortable"? What we're trying to help decide here is what the standard will be. I'm quite sure that if asked *every* store owner, whether they be sex shop, strip club, escort service, or clothing store would be "more comfortable" in the sim of their *choice*. But that isn't what is happening here.

What LL is telling us is that they will be herding us into the areas that make *them* comfortable, and they are asking us to make our case for why we *shouldn't have to go*.

That's not the same thing at all, and pretending that this is some inclusive, group decision with resident input is a joke.

This is being *forced* on the residents, and being forced *by* LL. this isn't a resident driven decision *or* process, at least not that I can see.

-V-

Sred, i think you are confusing the side effect of the nattering in group chat with the actual POINT of the group. Alongside a number of efforts: posting and discussing suggestions here, attending office hours, simply growing the group and offering free symbols, the intent was to demonstrate to the Lindens that the '2-4%' claim was hogwash and to do so in a manner that didn't mean so much preventing us from having to adapt but to prevent an ill-advised change based on a complete lack of understanding of their own customer base.

The size of the group, number of related groups, the variety of protests by prim, land sale and the posts here *are* getting noticed and *maybe* just maybe the Lindens will work toward a plan that lets all live and let live.

My primary personal concern is that I want to be able to flag *myself* as adult content so I am invisible to those who haven't made a choice to see me, my chat, my objects, my land or anything created by me in SL. I joined an adult only community and I want to remain part of that community and I have no interest whatsoever to be part of or visible to any who don't want the same things.

Remember Sred, the group is called *I* Am Adult Content and, not to be a jerk about it, that was my phrase, my point, my idea. I am an individual who wants freedom from political correctness, I spend money in SL to have that freedom and I want to be sure, as I was when I signed up to an 18 plus service, that I am only in the company of those of broad enough mind and maturity to let me be as I am, let them be the way they want to be and if we don't like the other to leave each other alone.

Bluntly, I'm offended and frankly, personally hurt that you cited the group founders in your tirade. We know well the difference between metaphor and board trolling. You know us all better.

- Kyle

I only now have heard of LindenLab's outrageous plan to turn SL into one big fat TeenGrid with dictatorship over content, letting Kids grief all over the mainland running all the adults out of SL to OpenSim (OpenSim is free, the only good thing that can come of this)> I am OUTRAGED and I will not support in any way LindenLab's disgusting plot.
Allowing children to come in, ruining SL is absolutely unacceptable. They have their TeenGrid where they and their Moral Bigot teachers can go if they want to control content.

Oh and wasn't saying I actually have a post that I disagree with or that I was muting anyone. Just giving it as an example.

But really, that should be the solution. You don't want to hear what someone sayes, you mute them. We need a way of doing this on a large scale, to mute a persons appearance, a parcel of land, a sim, etc.

And like I suggested early, have a rating system that describes the content of a parcel, and just turn off what you don't want to see. Easy! No one has to move!

In the end here's what I think needs to be done. A new system needs to be created to allow for more specific content warnings. LL needs to actually listen to what residents are saying. If they place this thread for residents to post suggestions, concerns, or questions, then LL has a responsibility to read through this entire thread. Yes I know it is extremely long but not one person needs to read it. Assign one linden to lets say 10 pages of this thread. Just have that one linden read 10 pages and summarize the posts for that section. Then all the Lindens can just talk out what they have found and resolve this whole issue without much pain or loss of residents.


Consumers should be liable for what they see in SL. It is their responsibility to read the description of the place they are teleporting to before actually teleporting. People are different. Get used to it.

LL does not need an excuse to do what they wish with the game and it would be good to at least remember it, we know what Mitch Kapour thinks of the residents as that is publicly documented. To play WoW and many of the other online games it costs money and you have to give personal details to them, why should SL be any different?

LL has stated that PIOF is good enough, maybe they feel that if more people have PIOF they will buy L$'s. Pre 2006 non verification, people joining SL had to pay a fee to play, that makes sound business sense and why not as you don't get your telephone, internet access, web hosting for free, so why expect SL to be free to play.

Maybe after all the bombshells that have been dropped in the past years and the people that threaten to leave but don't LL decided to do this as they know they won't lose that many players in the end as they have seen in the past.

I say we should wait and see what LL has decided, when they have decided and not live on "What if". This will affect me, but will i leave? i doubt it at present as there is nothing comparable to SL at present. Will i leave when there is? who knows, the world might end before then and i will never know

Just one mans opinion

Wait a minute, I like Adults. I don't have problems with Adults. What distinguish you from the other Adults that I like? How do I know you are not a monster? Does it mean all Adults are monsters?

No, but they *could* have envisioned where they *wanted* to be, and then only made changes that brought them closer to that goal.

What I see is a change in direction for LL. All of the early PR I saw for Secondlife was about "the electronic frontier" and about "creating virtual worlds to explore and enable human creativity" and to " be limited only by your imagination".

Evidently, LL has a different mission statement these days- They've added "as long as it doesn't frighten the corporate suits and the prudish." to the end.

Way to push the limits there guys.

-V-

"Monster Adult" ?

/me writes 'Monster Adult' on a sticker and slaps it on her chest. "Now you can avoid me". :3

Blondin, it is obvious to me from your comments that you have a very definite idea of what is included when you say "adult". I'd like to request that you come up with a list of "Definites". things that you know, 100%, will be included. Then a list of things that are being considered.

Pretending that nothing is set in stone serves no purpose- If anything using the word "fuck" is going to be relegated to the ghetto, then *say* so. *then* we will at least know what we're talking about.

-V-

I am furious at LindenLab's plan to dictate Aparteid against adults and turn the mainland into a horrible TeenGrid. Kids are NOT WELCOME ON THE MAINLAND!
I have no interest in the Sex Stuff that goes on, but I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT TOLERATE children in Second Life. I insist on quiet enjoyment of my land and neighbors and if LindenLAbs trys to go ahead with this dictatorship I WILL SUE! I will do whatever it takes to LEGALLY PUNISH LINDEN LABS for ruining my property!

Sorta agree. If you don't like Gor, BDSM, roleplay, don't enter these sims at all, do you go to a Drum and Bass rave or club and yell to shut down the music and tell everyone to go away because you don't like the music and find the ambient inappropriate?

Do Goreans roleplaying on a public space bug you? Well me too, I don't like Gorean roleplay as whole, guess what I do, right click persons names > Mute.

It's not like they are real slaves, its *role play* they are interpreting a character, its like a movie or your favorite novel, its not like they are considering themselves slaves or being forced to be slaves in SL.

People who try to run from the reality this much to the point of reporting such things to LLabs, should be the first to have their account looked at and have age verification implemented on THEM, because after all you people are not being very adult now are you?

It just simple as, don't like it, don't go there, no one is forcing you. Trying to kick off half SL population who have different likings, cultures, habits, seem racist to me, note that these people should be the ones to have a system enforced to them, IMHO.

Nope. *fair* would be to award the landowner their purchase price for the land, and then allow them to buy as much of the new continent as they like, even if that is *none*.

If you are taking people's homes and businesses away, you should compensate them for it, even if they they decide to leave thereafter.

*that* would be the only "fair" way to carry out a forced relocation.

-V-

Too bad this doesn't apply to private regions. 125K for my land would be nice, I would cash it all in then walk XD

Add a category to AR called "Inappropriate content complaint" and then, if the complaint comes from a mature sim, throw it in the recycle bin.

If is comes from a PG sim, *enforce* it.

If LL would *do* this, there wouldn't be any need for *any* of this.


-V-