Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

You're right, the feedback on implementation details that LL appears to be looking for is not easy to find in this mess.

But.

It seems clear to me that the vast majority of us honestly, earnestly, sincerely believe the basic premise is flawed, the proposed solution is horribly wrong for all kinds of reasons, and we are being lied to regarding both the real motivation for all this and the scope of the solution (and the scale of the damage willing to be inflicted in the process). Surely that message is coming through loud and clear despite the noise.

Unfortunately it's not the message they want to hear.

In the meantime I think it's understandable that it's a slow process getting from outrage to resigned acceptance and reluctant willingness to help hash out the details. Not entirely unlike coming to terms with an opportunity to choose between the electric chair and lethal injection and a good old-fashioned hanging.

A bit more of that orange text would help too (no offense meant to Blondin, who is holding up commendably in an impossible situation).

As it's not really being cleaned up I simply don't see this happening. Education is growing in its own way and happily getting on with it.

Freedom for self-design, self-experiment, self-expression and being free from censorship and totalitarism and being free from fake-censorship (because they do that only for hope on more dollars and not for moral or ethical reasons) is the higher value.

It goes not about ratings (nature itself has nothing rated, by the way!), it goes about the principe! Freedom. Nothing more, nothing less.

I *really* had to go look up whatever the hell Dolcett was, figuring it had to be awfully bad to elicit a comment like that.

I had nooooooo idea!

(as an aside, I couldn't find it in Wikipedia, so I had to Google it, and I clicked "I feel lucky". There you go, guys - you wanted an example of what could be considered "extreme"

I think I need one of those brown bags now.... *retch*

Edit: Can we just lock Nany on one of those sims for about a week? I guarantee, if she comes out of there, she'll have a whole new perspective of what she *thinks* she's against now!

I have my own sim which I'v been managing for a while. I was able to recently finish paying the seller off and having it transferred to my name. Then I find all this adult content stuff going around. My sim is known for its relaxed atmosphere and dress code. However, while all of my residents are age verified, many of their friends are not. Would there be the option to have an area of the sim open to all, while peoples homes remain locked to thoes without age verification? Thus allowing them to furnish their homes as they please, yet have friends over.

In english language it's censored on wikipedia, in german and other languages not. Found it, saw it and would say: from that point on we can talk about extreme art/extreme pictures and maybe giving a special environment to it, but: I have also read an interview with the artist and his intensions/fantasies. In a context of art, technical seen or as message seen (and the message is highly ironic - kind of overdrawing and showing the occassionaly stupidness of both genders... - ) it gets a different connotation. I say ever: an author is not responsible for that, what happens in readers or observers. After an artwork left the desktop or the atelier, it is at any individuum, to make something with received impressions. On first view it is dramatically brutal and inhuman, it is also sexism and degrading of womens dignity (but also it degrades the dignity of the malefigures in these drawings!) what we see there, but seen with a bit distance from the first shock, it becomes a status of irony, parody and kind of comedy, satiric touch. If you watch a traditional barbecue made by average people...the cult around managing a simple steak, the blabla around, the roles of the protagonists - then is the association not very far... and the different roles in average families... - this - very overdrawen, bizarr and macabre - is there to see, if (IF) one is able to see it as that. If simple minds are viewing that, it is maybe dangerous and can bring people to bad ideas, but this is the freedom and the provocation of art - that, as said, an author is not responsible for all possible reactions on his artwork. I think then often on Goethes love-drama "Werther" - it moved some readers into suicide, but other readers -a majority - didn't care and didn't fall in depressions. so - even in that extreme case of "Dolcette", is a clear definition not easy to do. In doubts is the freedom of expression the value, wich I prefer. Just to hide things, and not to meditate over them and not to analyse them, is too easy and opens gates for too fast and too unthoughtful censorship.

Edit: I think I agree with your Nany-idea..., hehehe

You can't possibly be serious. Have you read any of my prior posts about ripple effect, and how this will damage *my* business as an EDUCATOR? Censorship is *very* bad for educational confidence, and right now even the educational community is in a massive uproar over this, divided into two camps. A surprising number of educators don't support this move, and some businesses don't even; The focus on smut as opposed to more important issues like regular griefings and extreme instability is not confidence inspiring.

"Flood of new residents", indeed. I don't think you've been around long enough to remember the last flood in 2006. This mess is an ironic consequence of that one.

It turns out, the article was not censored. It was deleted due to lack of credible sources to merit an encyclopedic listing. I'm not going to pretend to believe that its content didn't accelerate the process, but it wasn't deleted because of it either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dolcett

Edit: Looking at the discussion page on the German site, it appears even that version had been deleted and recently rescued, and the discussion was rather censorship-driven, by what I could gather from my rusty German.

I am really really saddened right now. Yesterday I really had to come to grips with knowing my time is SL is about over. I've spent many hours talking with my business partner over all this Adult Censorship. His take in all this is "Some how we have to make it all work!". As much as I want to believe in that my inner self says "it's over."

I really love SL. I've loved the freedom of turning my 1/2 sims on the mainland into a lovely adult themed playground. My dream in the beginning was to entwine the love I had for Gor for the entire world to see. Inviting silk girls from Gorean sims a place to work their charms, their emoting, their beauty and build their pleasure skills. Not only by learning by watching a more experience girl but to also make a few lindens as well. Gorean sims were closing down due to cost. This was my way of helping out. Because of the mix, Gor and the world inviting all forms of "human" roleplay, or just the average Joe we had to make it OOC [out of character] No forced roleplay, No forced collaring, No forced rape, etc. Just relax and have fun.

Some would say we are a sex club, and we are in some sense. But completely different then 99 percent of sex clubs. Most sex clubs you are an escort with your ad on the wall. At our place their are levels, a white silk is a virgin and allowed no sexual intercourse they are only dancers. Levels go up in color of experience. Due to our White silks the entire ground level of the brothel is also at a level of white silk. No sex on the ground level only cuddles, couples dances, a massage. White silks are not even allowed in the servicing rooms. Not even open sex allowed. No men with penis' but the girls do dance nude on occasion. Occasionally a man will walk in with his manhood at full mast but he is quickly asked in IMs to tuck it away or be kicked off the premises. All sexual services are done 1000's of meters in the sky above the ground level away from any onlookers. Completely private. This business model has survived for over 2 years. We didn't and wouldn't put in a free sex room even though this might generate traffic, we didn't want the traffic it would generate. We held onto some decency and pride in the public eye. Holding onto some level of class and keeping it low key to some extent in public.

We even help new girls to SL with free skins, hair, clothing to help them look like beautiful, free make-overs to almost anyone that asks. We had out free newbie packets with just about anything a new girl could need from her look to her walk and so much more.

How is something like this going to work if I am forced to be on the same sims with other clubs or even worse beside a "free sex" ghetto? it isn't. I would be swamped with the newbies with the big woody that doesn't even know how to tuck it away. I would have to constantly police and enforce no public sex, no hanging 2 foot long hanging genders. No public showing of bestiality. It will be a constant battle.

Where I am now works. If I am forced to move over to the "Adult" sims the cost will out weight the dream. I have already looked at my numbers and looked over perhaps 400 profiles in the last few days and I will lose over half my workers, silks, staff. Right now not even my DJ that provides us with music for events can no make the move with us. It's not a matter at this point of "will I agree to move."...its a matter of will I survive this move. I know the answer to this, "No".

The hardest part of this is going into my workers group last night and explaining what LL's is wanting. Talking and telling them about this new wave of "censorship". No one knows about it. Not anyone that worked for me except my DJ was aware this was even happening.

And now I cry. I mourn. It's as bad as dealing with a knowing death of a loved one. If I make this move then most of my friends are gone. But just like any death you can't avoid it forever.

yeah Lindens, this really does hurt. thanks for the love and laughs over the years, but even moreso, ..thanks for breaking my heart!

Yes, true, you supplemented that correct and your analysis about the english and the german version is correct. Thanks for that. I shrinked it to "censored" because I did not read the explanation on the nearly empty english page and jumped direct further to the german page and missed there the controversy around the entry, wich you found and explained now - while concentrating on my main posting-content and ever with LEO, the online translation helper, open -because my english is very basic too, I do much puzzle-work and hope ever to hit the point halfway while creating my sentences.

Which is a contradiction. So on some level you really do care.

To the Lindens - I've only been here less than 2 weeks but have had the opportunity to sit down and talk with Lin and others like her, people who have made a HUGE contribution to your success. Now that I've seen a little of what happens here I have to chime in and tell you to stop this insanity! In RL I've run and continue to run several world class, profitable businesses due solely to my unwavering commitment to excellence in customer service. You are chasing me away by allowing children to run amok here! If you want to give educators and students a place to interact then give THEM an isolated environment, do not insist that we be part of your social experiment.
If, on the other hand, you are being pushed in this direction by somebody's prudish desire to clean up Dodge City, then you should step back and take a hard look at your business model. In RL, anyone who was attempting to quash diversity in this manner would be held up to public ridicule. Please, back off and find another solution to your perceived problem.
Jackie.

Legally, as with ANY content being rated as Mature content, it is simply enough to add a banner saying: Parental Advisory. Or when logging on to a website fill out one or two questions about your age. This is a worldwide accepted method.
Look at all those hiphop CD's with very offensive, violent and sex-orientated content. The banner is enough to have it sold legally. And it's being sold in supermarkets and toy stores even. Porn sites use a 2 questions method, next to a warning for mature content. All that is legal. Therefor, a simple banner or 1 or 2 questions before you log in would be the right thing to do and LL wouldn't have to worry about its content and lawsuits.
Now what LL wants to do is ban a large group of it's residents, because of mature content. Considering the above plus all the other possibilities to really make this game accessible to adults only (like credit card verification or PayPal registration or a dozen of other possibilities) and still wanna ban us all... that makes me think this is just conservative snobism. And of course there is a very easy way to ban child shapes and skins, and that surely is another thing to consider.
Please think of other ways before making this decision and lose half of your population to other virtual worlds!
With love, Lammy

I really really hope you are kidding right? Because this seems very intolerant. I'm guessing there were other descriptions in the parcel that would indicate that this place might have offended even you. Now you are simply justifying segregation.

Very good point. I agree with you 100% on this.

it seems you did not look up the definition for it. Granted it started as artwork but people here twisted it into a sexual deviancy of epic proportions that even me (one of the largest advocates of free speech in my area) said that this should be shut down. And that's saying something seeing how I come from one of the few "freespeech meccas" of the USA, Portland Oregon. And am a personal fan of BDSM but this.... this.... makes my stomach turn like a rotating jackhammer. Think Cannibalism + Sex + sharp pointy objects meant to cause harm = Dolcett.
I hang out in alot of these free sex sims quite often but you will never see me engaging in any activity besides chatting it up with some random person or simply observing because the human mind is facinating and the kinks and fetishes that some people have sometimes are beyond what I have known before that usually illicits some further study... till I happened upon THIS town... With the mental capacatity to become aroused sexually to this... Somebody was missing a couple of screws when they were born. And basically is the only time I would advocate medication and therapy about this not being "normal" behaviour and against the law... cause God knows (and this is a semi prod at the video game industry as a whole) Violence in video games causes Violence in the Real World! (again a prod however there are those types of people who think something is cool in a video game and decide to try it IRL like wrestling moves for a example)
*goes back to watching "Hitman" on his laptop DVD player munching on popcorn*
The hotel scene is pretty frakkin awesome... lol

Thank you. I know very well what Dolcett is. I have done my research. But what you are saying is it is okay to tell one group that you find disgusting that they shouldn't have the right to freely express themselves. Again, we are talking about in the context of SL where, no one can be physically hurt. That all parties are consenting Adults. Freedom of speech comes with things we like, and things we don't like. If you are a big proponent of freedom of speech, then you should understand that the good comes with the bad. We personally can't choose what should be free speech and what should be censored. Again, we are talking about SL, or not real life. If you are talking about freedom of speech for some and not for others, then you are blurring the lines between tolerance and intolerance.

*Sits in the corner watching everything*

Is it done yet?

The best idea I've seen is a PG rated continent. Let me add to that. Make it so that you cannot leave that continent without age verification.

Once you verify, then you can chose where to go.

No censorship necessary.

Can i just point out here, SECOND LIFE ISNT A WEBSITE! its a game, one you have to download. and personally i havent seen any porn unless i went looking for it. a master dragging his slaves around isnt porn, Its gorean. according to federal US law you have to be 18+ to look at or buy porn. i beleive i checked tat little box when i installed SL. So do me a favor and piss off. if i want to meet someone here and go to my skybox and have freaky monkey sex all night, what business is that of yours? i have had noobs fly up and look in the windows. where were the lindens when this happened? what about my rights bieng violated? as far as i am concerned this move is a stupid waste of time and resourses. Mature is the same as Adult.
oh and btw..the porn industry in the US alone is worth Billions of dollars.... i think Heff might buy a sim or two if asked properly. think of that.. bieng able to actually interact with the bunnies...

I got an idea. This will seem crazy I know. But how about..

Explain the range of what's considered Adult. Really.

Course Language
Sex or Sexual References
Voilence
Drugs
Nudity (Any and all forms)

Lets make everything that is basically Mature, now Adult!

Then move all that into a continent and lock it down as 'Adult' like what is being done. Then when people log in, they can only go to 'PG' rated areas until they verify themselves or put a payment method on file. Just the way that Linden Lab is suggesting.

It would be a lot more fair I think, considering that SL is meant to be an 18+ service anyway. And if you just move 'extreme' things into the adult area, people will still complain about the occasional penis here and there in the normal areas. Thus achieving nothing. And if you only move a small percentage of folks into those areas, then it's a disadvantage to them and no one else! Which isn't fair at all.

In addition the continent being made, we should also label a few other mainland continents as 'Adult Only', and then remove all the PG stuff out of them. And make a PG continent too.

I'm against separating things, but at the same time, if SL should be an 18+ service and LL wants to check that their users are 18+ before they continue on in SL. Let the PG areas be like the 'waiting room' of SL, for people to hang out in, doing nothing interesting till those people get verified or whatever and then come into the rest of SL.

Make the 'Adult' region basically 90% of SL, and make the PG areas just a small welcome area. Like 1-200 regions or whatever.

EDIT:


Sorry didn't see your post before doing mine. But yea basically:
-Make Mature=Adult
-Make all of SL verified users only
-Make a PG continent, let users wait there until they want to get verified.
-Make the PG continent rules: "NOTHING THAT IS EVEN REMOTELY QUESTIONABLE"
-Then anyone who wants to complain about things can just live there, and would live in a clean, boring continent where people aren't allowed to do anything infront of them.
-Anyone who doesn't like the rules, put up a big sign, "Get age verified and go to the rest of the grid! No restrictions on anyones actions!"

There is always a blurring of the lines in such things there is no sharp crystal clear picture and this is not a perfect world. We have this country (U.S.A) born of rape, robbery and violence. (THAT can NOT be denied) and is indeed a genetic piece of what we are. If they enjoy it let them enjoy it. However I go back to my argument that human beings are still in essence stupid animals (not quoted exactly from my original posting however the 'feel' of it is there) that we are birthed from what we are exposed to. Now, I know theres another dude here from oregon that remembers James Nelson. He was birthed as a murderer and rapist not because of a game, but because of a book. The human mind is so suggestive that all it takes is one completely brain dead idiot to think, "well she seems to like it here, mebby I try to hook up with her and try it for real?" And belive me it CAN happen and has happened in some cases (not dolcett for example but there are other aspects out there that are pretty bad as well) Basically I'm stating that as part of the community that the "M" rating on ANYTHING is way to broad and needs further clarification. At least with the ESRB you know where you stand. Lets see.. .this game has sexual themes, suggestive language, violence, animated blood, gore, animated sex, etc. etc. etc. that list could keep on going and going like the energizer bunny which would technically score this game the very first (in the USA) ESRB "A" Rating in Several years. which I think LL should actually do. oh but wait. if there was a "A" rating on this... that would kill all incoming business and advertisments from big time corporations that might want to invest in sl as a business model! We cant have that now can we?


Gah.... Again with the monster and the posting. *note to self... decaf*

BTW James nelson burned a Autistic kid alive after stomping on her, stabbing her, dousing her with gas and lighting her on fire... Unfortunately I was dating his ex at the time, homeless sleeping under a bridge not 100 yards from the scene of the crime and slept right through it. To think I stood next to that man and figured him as a alright guy (before the murders and during the Iraq war "Stop the bombs" peace camp protest outside portland city hall). You never really know if that person who seems to be having innocent fun in something like that is really into that kind of stuff in real life. Heck, one of your co-workers could be a psycho and you would never know...

no, at the time I wasn't. Sorry, but after reading a couple of the web forums where the 99% of the posts contained stories of women being kidnapped, sexually assaulted, decapitated, dismembered and then eaten, I was heartily offended. There were no stories about men being the unwilling victims and the only one where the victim was willing was one where a child had been brought up to be excited by the idea that on her 18th birthday her father would take her virginity, use her as a sex toy for a couple of weeks then invite her brothers over to sexually use her before he put a skewer through her and roasted her alive like a suckling pig.

however, I have edited the post to apologise.

/352/01/312352/141.html#post2371649

Tolerance is the name of the game and despite what you think, extremes like this do require segregation. The only difference between SL and the rest of the web is in here you consent and it is pure role play. Hell, I was cool with the guy in Germany eating that guy he found on the web - both consented.

That these people want to get their jollies on the rest of the web from reading stories about the abduction, killing and eating of unwilling women is not ok but in here i can live with it because all parties have to consent to the rp.

Apart from in the vore community this is extreme fetishism - both in violence and sex. I also suspect that within vore it is also at the extreme end. Considering vore is self segregating between soft and hard.

If you can't see that then you're given the perfect example of why segregation does need to occur.

Putting a couple of descriptors doesn't help. I didn't even know what vore was until last night and I'm an information junkie.

I've started a monster just mentioning dolcett, though I'm making a very wide assumption it started with the search of the term dolcett then that probally led to other terms as well?

(I find myself doing that in wikipedia for hours just going deeper and deeper into a subject till I discover I have like 30 tabs open all wikipedia and start backing out before I fall down the rabbit hole of information never to be seen again)

These kinds of activities have already segregated themselves in my opinion. If you uproot them and throw them altogether on the Adult Continent, you have segregated them from maybe the strictly PG people. But now you have a situation, where you are making it even more difficult for them to segregate themselves from people not interested in what they are doing.