Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Well, I'm trying to record open questions to LL from this thread as they emerge here: /327/61/313891/1.html#post2371870

Matthew

Righto, but SL is 18+, or at least should be. And you made the good point yourself, Vore is an example of a fetish that self segretates itself. Most times on Vore websites or on Vore clubs etc, once you enter there'll be a sign saying, "Here be Vore", and if there is Hard Vore, there'll be a warning for that too. "*WARNING HARD VORE!*".

I know that most people however aren't going to know what Vore is, but then again, they don't have to. All they need to know is, if they enter a place, they could see sex, death and violence.

How about, on each parcel we have a rating option? A list of tickboxes to describe what's there?

Violence:
[ ] None [ ] Cartoon [ ] Regular [ ] Frequent [ ] Frequent [ ] Frequent Strong
Sex:
[ ] None [ ] References [ ] Short sex scenes [ ] Sex scenes [ ] Strong sex scenes
Course Language
[ ] None [ ] Mild [ ] Regular [ ] Strong [ ] Frequent Strong
Extra:
[ ] Drug references
[ ] Rape
[ ] Murder
[ ] War
[ ] Adult themes

Etc etc

Have a 'Rating' tab in the 'About Land' menu, and have those options in it. Then just let people set in the clients preferences (doesn't have to be a setting in the actual user account, just the client viewer will do), to what they want to be allowed to see.

So Nany can have:

Violence:
[X] None [ ] Cartoon [ ] Regular [ ] Frequent [ ] Frequent [ ] Frequent Strong
Sex:
[X] None [ ] References [ ] Short sex scenes [ ] Sex scenes [ ] Strong sex scenes
Course Language
[X] None [ ] Mild [ ] Regular [ ] Strong [ ] Frequent Strong
Extra:
[ ] Drug references
[ ] Rape
[ ] Murder
[ ] War
[ ] Adult themes

And someone like me and just tick them all! ^_~

Oh and you'll be pleased to know that I have many guys (actually, more.. a lot more), more then women at my club that are interested in being eaten alive or killed. Although I know a few women that visit for it, it's mainly men that seem to enjoy it at my club. So don't worry, there's no sexism about the fetish. :3

In a way I'm with you.. but I can't see how it will make it harder. I assume most of these extremes are on private islands anyway. I do find it difficult to believe that this is happening on mainland.

I certainly don't want to be pushed into a tighter definition of adult where activities like this are a larger proportion and therefore potentially higher visibility simply because of narrowing the definition.

I also find it funny that most people didn't even KNOW about these extreme fetishes taking place on the grid until they were mentioned by Linden Lab. That's how quiet we are!! We keep to ourselves!! We're not trying to throw our smut in your faces! XD

so... fetishes and kinks need to be separated? who are you to say what is required? what fetishes? just the ones you deem "extreme" or all of them? some people have an anal fetish, is that extreme? some have a foot fetish. personally ( and i have said this before) mature sims should cover all things, as Mature indicates bieng an Adult.

The thing about Vore is just the term itself, CarniVORE, as in flesh eating animal is the origination of this contraction, however it is true that the "Here be Vore" warnings are honestly not even close to enough to warn a user excatly what they will be running into with something like this. Now personally about your Options system that sits real close with a ESRB rating system and is actually something I approve of. However having it a option inside the prefrences of the client it would definately need to be saved inside the internal prefs file that SL creates per-user just to prevent some other person getting on... oh lets say your computer to play sl and decides to do a search, heads somewhere innocently enough and freaks on what he runs into. Technically I believe that this wouldn't be real hard to institute as it would be adding some extra 'bits' to the search functionality (which has been outdated for quite some time) that could also either be added to estate management tools, parcel management or the like. Heck I'll go on a stretch here on top of it. Someone made a client (cant remember the name in my W.B.T. state) that you could actually Mute visibility of a object or parcel. something like this could work in concert with these prefrences that anything beyond the persons personal prefrences remains "muted" on thier viewer and therefore no-longer visible to them to see. so if they accidentally end up some where the sim doesnt render this person to the users of the said "naughty" area and the area doesnt render to the user.
I can cite plenty of times I've gone through walls and people without disturbing them simply because they wern't rendered on my screen yet. perhaps if the viewer cant see it, it cant collide with it as well as the other way around could be possible....

On another note... I need to stop rambling....

Believe it or not it does. My button is violence towards women. The sisterhood and I may have parted company when I entered second life, but it doesn't mean that I've completely abandoned them.

The strangest thing about this is I've been building a torture chamber for the last 4 or so months and I'm planning on the centrepiece being the lowering the captive into a fire. This was what got me when I reacted - how could I be building something like that yet be taking such offence to those forums.

Until of course I realised it was the lack of consent I saw and the obvious "women as victims" thing.

I'd actually like to come for a visit to your club/sim sometime just for a nosey.. (it's the information junkie in me and my insatiable curiosity about life) but as with a lot of the rp places out there I don't go because I don't know enough about the community behaviours and expectations to be able to keep out of the way and not upset the punters and not have them expect me to participate.

If you have time I'd love the offer of a guided tour

I just realized I hadn't added my financial statement into this. I'm not a premium member, but I am on 3 estates. One of those estates is my partner's, she is ambivalent about maintaining. For the past few months I have been encouraging her to keep her island. I won't be doing that anymore.

The second estate I pay for a friend's 8k parcel, I pay the estate owner 15,000 Lindens a month. As you can see, he's just barely making a profit. It's definately "adult", not just because of that parcel. So if the other adult vendors and myself jump ship, there's another estate down.

The third estate is a landmass of several estates. Also with many 'adult' shops. If these go... well I don't know what the owner would plan.

Do you see where you are heading with this LL?

A little math project: The forum seems to be running about 90% BAD idea. of those about 10% seem to be stating that there will be financial impact on them that will cause them to cease their 'paying'. So that's threatened 9% drop in revenue immediately if the people in here are taken as an average of the population (generalizing on that point.. I think it will be more.)... Much like the auto industry, there will be a ripple effect. How many of those who drop away are propping up others in SL like I am? How many more estates will pull the plug because they can no longer afford their tiers now that their space rentals are gone?

People have been posting their numbers already. Enforcing the adult flagging will result in a 50% drop in visitation. We are commercial enterprises. We aren't non-profits who can just run to a institution and soft soak them for more money to cover the tier on empty sims, when our customers go, we go. Can you afford that level of lost income?

Take a look at some of these 'adult' Sims.. activity of 10,000 and higher, and I'm filtering out the fake traffic sites I've visited with nothing but bots on them.. then go look at the sims of those who are arguing for this change, sims with traffic of 200!? At least 50 to 1 in traffic. Com'on. Where do you think your money is coming from? For every one person who actually spends time being 'empowered' or whatever, in SL, there are at least 50 out there being wacky and doing silly unproductive fun stuff. If you take away the "dirty pictures" do you think the 25 people of those 50 who are unverified are suddenly going to decided they want to go sail a boat or discuss critical thought? I'll be generous and say half are.. you just lost 13 people who went to download a dirty movie. 13 out of 50.. that's 26% of your 'adult' users just logged off to go somewhere else to have fun. If my averages are correct.. that represents something like 1200% more traffic you just lost than you would have lost moving an 'academic' sim and losing ALL of its users.

I saw a study years ago somewhere that something like 80% of internet traffic was porn (this was a while ago, I'm sure that it's much lower now since music sharing is probably eating into that)... Why do you think when that came out that all the ISP's didn't run around screaming with their hair on fire and stamp out dirty images online? Why didn't every academic institution demand that all explicit sites be blocked, why did all those "clean up the internet" bills in the us congress die slow ignominious deaths? Because people realized, the naughty stuff was paying the bills. The internet exploded because most people who were paying for access were doing it to look at other people naked. Now you are in the same boat, you are a repeat of the internet in the 1980's. People are flooding into SL, a vast majority are here for two things. One, they heard that people get rich (sound familiar). Two, they heard they can see naked people. Take away easy naked people viewing and people who want to see naked people go away, and guess what.. you aren't going to hear about people getting rich very much either.

From www.rotten.com
(Sound familiar?)

I'll finish with this, those of you who are old enough, remember what image made compuserve's .gif format the 'standard' when it came out? It wasn't the ape picture, it was Marilyn Monroe's Playboy centerfold. I saw a quote once that the internet exists today because of that picture.

Patasha

Well the preferences would be stored in the client the same way your graphics preferences are stored.. and if someone turns them off or doesn't use them, well that's their own fault really isn't it? Can't blame a company for a grown adult turning off a system of protection put in place for them, then seeing something they don't like because of it.

Just have it set to default as the Nany preferences like I showed above, so that there is no accidental 'resets' etc. Only if you want to see more, then turn on the rest. Simple! Only show in the search results the parcels that meet the rating too. Which is easy enough to do, as Linden Lab already does so with the 'Mature' flag, and is going to do so again with the 'Adult' flag.

That way the community can rate itself and keep itself in check, and people can avoid what doesn't interest them.

EDIT: @Couldbe Yue, I actually just got online in SL, if you want to IM me then your welcome to come by. Although the main focus isn't on that subject, we get up to all sorts of smut here. ;3

My name is Marta and i wonder how i will verified my age.I live in Europe and have tried a ageverified area.
I cant pass it and whn i try to verify my age i cant.I dont live in a state of USA i dnt have the zipcode aso.
How do LL think all not americans shall verify?
Its suprised me because i thought SL was wordwide.
Marta

yes. I completely agree - much more sophisticated and tailorable approach. Although it does rely on the integrity of those who flag their parcels.

It's a bit like that top ranking sex place that Nany was going on about (but I bet she didn't lodge the AR lol) - no mature flagging there of course as it would restrict the audience for the ad and their profitability.

That kind of thing would have to stop with this. If we're to self regulate then we must be honest about what we offer - anything else gives people like nany the opportunity to push for outside regulation.

Or "Silence of the Lambs".

Youtube offers a 'flag video' option, that lets people mark if they consider a video adult content or not. (I'm amazed to be honest that it's not abused), I don't think it would be a good thing to be put in SL *in that exact form*.

Maybe an option to have a 'Give Rating to parcel' would be nice, that lets people suggest a rating for the parcel. And then just use the average of all the submitted ratings.

In either case there is hundreds of better ideas which LL could use to solve this problem, all better than their current plan.

Honestly, for one who peddles the type of smut that makes my stomach churn you make the most sense on the fact and with the best idea i have seen. Even google has a special filter on it with 3 levels of protection to it and I think SL should step up and offer selective filtering of content by a system akin to this one.

On top of this, the more and more I run it through my head, I've seen PG sims right next to mature sims that I've flown through and was rather shocked at the diffrence. So I'm gonna have to say yes to the move with stipulations.
as follows, do not merely just create a whole nother setup for adult content as that would be redundant but simply shuffle around what we already have, correct the PG/Mature border lines (without changing the name of the sim (as it seems most landmarks rely on a sim name and a X/Y/Z coord for location with notecards and SLURLs) and take volunteers for cripes sake before the move. Do a actual in-depth study and after all yer pondering on what should be considered adult and what is not and gather up all those adult content providers and cast lots for spaces either that or a ticket system, sort them out by levels of extreme (I belive using the scale that Grady provided would work nicely) and just reshuffle the grid like that. Unfortunately as I said the more I look at it the more I do see the move as a necessity (and making a pg contintent isnt any diffrent from making a adult one, either way the two become seperate from each-other) and personally Grady, I think you should put this suggestion right infront of the lindens instead of mashed in this HUGE thread where I'm making a loose assumption that the Lindens have given up on this thread entirely as its taken its own road down several paths into the human psyche and is showing no signs of stopping now. But personally I for one would like to hear opinions on the grading system that Grady has pulled out of his Vorish behind

If your whole issue is consent, then you should know that the only way anything in sl happens, RPwise, is with consent. try going to a few RP sims and interacting, we are intellegent and insightul even the gorean ones *winks*. Tal to all my gorean brothers and sisters out there, and Vendui to all of my fantasy ones.

You seem to have no problem "visiting" a RP sim but you will never learn unless you try.
most RP sims have OOC tage...out of character for those who dont know, wher you can watch without bieng worried about "participation"

just firing up the client now Give me 10 to deal with the customer IMs etc that have come in while I've been offline and I'll drop you a note.

As a non-native English speaker, I'd like help on some words I can't really understand concerning the whole issue.

I have read many times here Lindens repeating that "teens won't be allowed on SL, it's not scheduled, it's not a project ..etc..."

OK

I know my English is not that good but... even with the Webster in hand , i have troubles with three expressions :

-PG = parental guidance... so... it means, if i am correct, that, as an adult , I must ask my parents (my mother is 80) to go there... I see no other logical explanation because there are no teens on SL... so who are those that need parental guidance ???

I am lost ...

-Mature = old ... ok ... so this will be for "old" adults then ??? Over what age ??? 40 ?? 50 ??
Because there are no teens on SL ... by definition it is an adult game and the Lindens said many times there was no merging planned with the teen grid....

???

I am confused ....

-Adult ...... Are there adults non adult ??? Yes because it seemed to me that Lindens insisted there are no teens on SL and no merging intended... so who are the adult adults ??? 0.o

.... ok , I 'll get my Prozac.... and some aspirin.... and some lexomil too just in case ..

Additional we know now people, they have all the same last name, wich have a last name fetish, a clean-up fetish where nothing is dirty and a money fetish where nothing is poor.

And they have a laboratory fetish.

Have I mentioned the brown bag fetish?

*pulls a cable guy putting pepperoni and thin sliced ham on his face with a evil grin*
I know I know off topic. I'll read up more and contribute later.

You're right, I'm not entirely serious.

As I've noted before, business and education already have presences in SL. The ones who aren't here yet are probably holding off because they can't think of what to do in SL rather than worrying about other people's content.

No, I wasn't around in 2006. I expect it was some sort of lascivious publicity that led to that flood? If there are any new customers from this new policy, I suspect they'll be people who read the articles about LL's cleanup, and come here not because it's safe, but because they realize there's adult material in SL.

if you read my apology edit in the original post that started this you'd see that my whole acceptance of something that is unacceptable to me on the web is that in here it's all consensual.

I make my money in here from people wanting to be tied up, collared, silked, punished etc. I couldn't do it if I thought that any element of it was non consensual.

RP sims aren't to my taste for lots of reasons, but that doesn't stop me wanting to have a peek at how others enjoy themselves.. Told you, I'm nosey

and the one thing I'm adamant on is that if I'm going to make a decision that I don't like something then I want enough differing opinions as input so I can make my own mind up.

and not approving of something doesn't mean I want it eliminated. It means that I want to be able to justify why I find it unacceptable to my particular framework and why I believe it should co-exist with the rest of us.

and here are my stats for around the last 12 hrs (which is the traditional low concurrency numbers period for sl)

[7:16] payment info traffic scanner:
scanned avatars = 63
no payment info on file = 31
payment info on file = 3
payment info used = 29
63 keys, 47164 bytes free

mine are probably a bit skewed at the moment as I'm part of a grid hunt and they have a lot of npiof freebie hunters participating. I'm actually surprised that the piof numbers are so high considering.

uh-oh. we have hit the third stage....
1st stage: Fear
2nd stage: Outrage
3nd stage: understanding and research
4th stage: acceptance
5th stage: world implodes.... I think.
(this is purely for humor value and is just a reflection of my state of mind at this moment)

But yeah finally some voices of reason are dragging themselves out of the almost literal ocean of posts in this one thread alone.... I wonder whats the magic number when it auto locks...

the magic number is "a bunch"

i thought this was a "free" world? why do we have to justify ourselves to anyone? if you dont like something....dont go there!
And who exactly are the "rest of us"? the "normal" people? i hayte that term just so you know...normal is in the eye of the beholder.