Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Actually, in my experience Wikipedia is fairly accurate, especially when it quotes law directly. (I've been in the US a long, long time and have visited the UK; I know what *my* preference is.)

Maybe this has nothing to do with this new UK law...but we went through something very similar over "age play" largely because of UK anti-pedo law, not all that very long ago.

But we'll know for sure if, soon after the "mature" ghetto is created and populated, a new restriction appears that prevents a viewer that connects from a UK IP address from entering the ghetto.

And AU addresses will be next in *that* scenario.

Don't even bother telling me "they didn't say they were gonna do that"....we'll find out about it just before it happens. There's features to support the pr0n ghetto already in Server 1.26... although the information about them is still quite sparse.

Katheryne Helendale
*I* AM ADULT CONTENT


Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 602 Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyphien Heart
Reading what's out there on the issue I came across some ideas... Maybe this idea was said already, the forum is way too long to find out.

In another blog post about parcel improvements (Sorry I don't remember which) someone suggested adding the ability to make the content of a given parcel not viewable from the exterior when privacy was desired. While I disagree with with this solution because it would make the landscape rather horrid... I had a flash...

Instead of carpet solutions... why not have said content flagged!

A simple check box. "Adult content".. Check. And voila. Object appears as invisible to all those not interested in such content. Even better... A user not interested in adult content would not even have to download it. Saving precious resources.

Even better! Locations with PG, Mature AND adult content (Think skins, some clubs) could be visited by everyone without offending anyone.

Locations specifically offering adult content could still be flagged at a parcel level and blimmey... if you don't want to be in contact with adult content enthusiasts and go there then you're asking for it.

Complicated to tag all objects? Not really. As far as locations go, adult related objects make a small fraction of a complete build. Said flag could even be "No Modify" on bought objects with "No Modify" checked, making it even easier. And if you're going to offer adult content, it's your responsibility after all.

Could even work for avatars (i.e. strippers) the same way it works when muting. Maybe said avatar could be red instead. It would even allow for someone to enter adult mode and leave it. lol... funny idea.

Doesn't change the landscape. The "adult" location's "walls" would still be there and therefore the landscape would not be affected.

No costly moves to a new Sim.

Much like RL regulations, the advertising on the outside wall (provided it is not adult itself) could still explain what's inside and therefore not affect the finances of adult content owners.

If those not interested in adult content are offended by the simple possibility of it near them, it's simply bigotry, not wanting to accept part of the world does like and indulge in adult content.

As for the search... you don't need keyword searches. Just a clear definition and you can be certain those responsible will flag to stay out of trouble. Those against adult content will report any offenders presto. For those who don't flag... good riddance, they asked for it.

How complicated does it have to be?

~Cy

This!

Most of the mechanics required are already programmed in. All that would need to be added is an extra property which defines a prim or linkset as "adult" or not - simply check or uncheck; and a property in the viewer preferences which would enable or disable the rendering of adult-flagged objects.

There are two ways this could be done. The first would simply make use of the mute function - that is, if the person has not age-verified OR has "View adult content" unchecked in viewer preferences, the adult-flagged object would simply be muted.

The second approach is a little more technologically advanced, and would require some extra code in the viewer. It involves having the viewer check for the adult flag on each object as it is downloaded and, if the object is flagged and either the account is not age verified or has not enabled "View adult content" in viewer preferences, then the viewer would simply not render the object at all.

Anybody see any problems with this idea?












My thoughts on this and yes I quoted from two posters:

I think this is marvelous! Yes, please. I would rather not be seen by those who would be offended by my tattoos which cover most of my body and the fact that I wear sexy (not slutty) clothing and the fact that I strip in SL and look really good when I am without clothing *snickers quietly*. *I* Am Adult Content and prefer to stay that way. I do not want to interact with teens in SL, I don't want to interact with children in SL. I was told this was an adult only game when I joined about 15 months ago. I would prefer that it stay adult. Please fix it so those who are easily offended get to sanitize their experience and let them choose to be PG and not have to see anything that will offend them. Simple solution and less intrusive than moving everyone to an adult ghetto. If they would be offended by the very sight of me, then fix it so they don't have to see me, hear me, smell me, or even know I exist.

And then I won't have to worry about some easily offended person ARing me just because they don't like blonde toons wearing sexy clothing and tats. And in return I promise to be a good little adult toon and stay in my adult/mature world and will not intrude into their PG world unless it's to shop. And I won't have to see rl adults acting like children (which personally offends me but whatever makes you happy). And if I can find what I want on XStreet or on a really nice adult/mature sim then they won't even have to deal with my tainted adult Lindens which I either bought or earned by act of stripping off my clothing and dancing...*gasp*...naked

And if I go to their PG shop I can promise to wear clothing that will cover me from neck to wrists to ankles and will still make me look like a walking advertisement for some really naughty fantasies

I am here in SL because I love that I have seen some absolutely amazing virtual museums, have been able to visit places I can't afford to visit in RL (such as the awesome Mexico sim), I get to scuba dive, skydive, dance the night away in stillettos that would absolutely cause me to break my neck in rl or at least an ankle, I get to go sailing, swimming, flying, and I get to listen to great music, have wonderfully adult/mature conversations, and I get to do things here that I could not afford in rl. And I get to do things here that I could not do in rl due to health issues. I also am here because I don't want to deal with children/teenagers. My choice and my right. Just as much as it is your choice and your right to decide what you want SL to be. But not at the cost of you deciding that because I like adult content that I need to be segregated. That is like saying that you should be segregated because you like playing a chld. No offense intended - just an example.

This is a great place to explore and relax in which is why I come here. This is my escape and my fantasy world. This is the place where I can explore those things that interest me. And I am adult to know what I do and don't want to experience. I am also adult enough to leave those places that offend/annoy/bother me without...let me repeat that...WITHOUT complaining to LL or sending an AR. I am in charge of what I see/hear/experience by the simple fact that I have tools to allow me to...leave, sign out, stop the music, or go somewhere else. It's a wonderful thing

I do those things in rl too - if I don't like a TV program, I either change the channel or simply turn off the TV. Same goes for the radio. And as for movies - I don't go to the ones that don't interest me. Simple. Same idea applies to SL. So just let us all decide how we want to experience SL. Either the cleaner PG way or let us explore to the fullest the Adult/Mature way. And if I see something that offends me then it is up to me to go find something less offensive. So...I won't impose my standards on those who like PG content and long as they don't impose their standards on those of us who prefer Adult/Mature content. Seems to me a good way to live in SL and a way that would make everyone happy except those who will complain no matter what. And it would help LL to continue to offer us a wonderful experience (well if they could fix that lag, no tp, crashing problem )

Thanks for your time and thanks for reading this. *I* Am Adult Content and Proud Of It!

*blows kisses and goes to explore more of SL*

Sapphire Hissop, Unfortunately your quoted text is not quoted at all but a C&P so trying to find what you put in there makes things difficult. Perhaps editing it and putting your text in bold perhaps to make it stand out would work better.


anyway, ok, additonal information about Veratad Technologies,
(for those too lazy to C&P a link I posted eariler)


And,

Integration into Lindex and SLX too perhaps for background verification? (this might be possibly overkill to integrate such a system into lindex and slx however not entirely improbable.)

Come on people, Currently right now this whole thing has more questions and heresay than answers.... GET TO WORK!
I'm goin sleepies now, I better see at least something constructive on how to fix this issue when I wake up or I'll cry... and that aint pretty trust me on that. a big grown man crying... yeah It just aint me so I'll probally be crying at the top of a clock tower with a AWP under my arm....

LOL i am certainly not a LL supporter in many ways and have even earn t a couple of forum bans in the past for postings when i was LL bashing and i certainly wasn't having a go at them as i stated i am in agreement with verification across the grid, every avatar then maybe we wont need to have a separate adult land as everyone will be verified as an adult.

I totally agree with you that perhaps solutions need to be come by and as stated a couple of posts up there are good options, trouble is people bash whatever they can online as its anonymous and others ride the coat tails of those that maybe have had unfortunate experiences with companies. Look at peoples bad experiences with paypal, yet i have never had a bad experience with them and have used them from the start. Never had any trouble as i stated verifying the alts on my UK passport number with Aristotle, although i accept some do, i had to use my old UK address as my passport is UK registered until i renew it.

Trouble is and watching this thread i am starting to see a lot of postings from people that cannot be bothered to read the past postings or research what is going on and the noise is getting so much all the good stuff, ideas etc. is getting lost. which is shame as some good ideas are coming up.

I just hope that LL reads through all of this and comes to a decision that will enable us all to move forward until the next bombshell

Oh gods! DON'T DO THAT! I instinctively almost bit off Blue's head for the hypocrisy.

Yes, that's a perfectly good example of how it SHOULD have been done, if any of the Lindens were a) competent, and b) proactive. But they aren't, and we have what we have: them gearing up for a disaster that will gut SL and leave it a smoking ruin with them scratching their heads wondering what happened.

The problem is that the collateral damage for this initiative will be PERMANENT. Once they have moved the adult businesses off to the gulag, where most of their customers can't get to them, where they are made to feel like unwanted refuse, where they will have tremendous difficulties with lag, heavy competition for resources, etc, they will close up shop and leave. So will their customers. At the end of the day, there will be a significant drop in land ownership, online presence, and sales in other non-adult categories.

Yeah, I know, it's a doom-n-gloom prognostication, but mark my words, it's a likelihood that anyone would be foolish to ignore, most especially the Lindens.

Meh... There are certainly lots of kinks out there in the real world, and on the Internet, and practiced privately in SL, that I find personally revolting. There are also other kinks that I find perfectly acceptable, but that I am quite sure many other people would find almost as revolting as they would some of the stuff that disgusts me. As long as the people pursuing their kinky games aren't doing it out on the front lawn where someone can see it accidentally, who cares?

I've stumbled into a few truly revolting places before in SL. Usually it was because I went to a retail vendor area, looked at an item or two I had found in search that had to do with some completely different topic, and then saw the site had some sort of club or RP area and I approached it and took a look. Usually, there were pretty clear signs at the entrance indicating "If people doing ***** bothers you, don't go in here!". Where there were no such warnings, they usually kept the more extreme stuff to the back, in the harder to find places. If I saw stuff that didn't appeal to me, I just kept moving. If the area really disgusted me, I TP home and get rid of the LM for that place. Simple enough.

Since LL has decided they will build a Pornotopia, I think that the guidelines for that continent should be that extreme stuff (The sort that might even make a typical XXX DVD purchaser blink and turn away) has to be in some sort of enclosed, access-controlled space, with fair warning given. But that if you at least make a valid attempt at keeping it descrete and giving fair warning, it should be "anything goes". As long as it isn't flat-out illegal, like distributing real-life photos of real kids being sexually abused. As long as it is consenting adults pushing cartoon pixels around and just roleplaying a fantasy, have at it!

Think about how most US cities have adult DVD stores and Adult book stores flag their entries. The main signage and billboards may or may not clearly indicate what sort of stuff you find there. But right by the door is a very clear sign stating that inside there is adult XXX content, and if this offends you, don't enter. If it doesn't offend you, then you must be of a certain age to enter (depending on state and local laws, 18 to 21).

Similar for strip clubs, and I guess for massage parlors. And with those, there is almost always a lobby between the entry and the adult area, where again signage indicates what is beyond the next door, and you can't proceed without passing at least a cursory check for being of legal age to view the "show", and possibly paying an admission fee.

It's easy enough for a venue to be set up to allow extreme content, and to give people plenty of warning and perhaps even require that you voluntarily buy a pass or join a group to go into the restricted area. So as far as I am concerned, let them have their "fun", behind "closed doors".

As for what I consider "extreme"?

Does it cause apparent harm/damage to a participant? Things like branding, mutilation, bleeding injuries, or eating/killing someone? Definitely extreme. Should be in a secured area, access controlled, members-only. Fair warning given for access.

Does the activity have the *appearance* of not being consentual, even though in SL all activity is by mutual consent? Stuff like rape scenes, kidnapping, etc? Probably extreme, and at least deserves a warning prior to exposure. This runs the gamut from "Hard Alley" rape areas to relatively innocent Captutre Roleplay. Consent required to be indicated before entry allowed.

Is it representing a voluntary, consentual activity, and no one walks away with an injury? NOT extreme, even of it may involve activities that some may be disgusted at.

Not sure? Then take precautions to ensure the people who might be exposed to it are willing to see or participate in that particular kink.

Each to their own



That was German laws that were invoked and LL threatened if acts were not cleaned up not UK laws and one thing is for sure i am glad i am no longer a UK resident with my RL business.



Yeah geographical IP separation is a tool i am sure LL will use as time passes thats for sure



One thing i have learn t about LL over the years that i have been here is never believe all that they say as there priorities are to themselves and not to us as Mitch K has clearly stated.

harsh fact is if people leave SL LL would have factor all that into their forcasts i am sure and perhaps this is a gamble they are prepared to take with SL, one thing is for sure, that is we will never know the truth

Ahem, I haven't even fallen asleep yet and I got a tear welling up... *looks around for his sniper* ANSWERS, NOT BASHING... *grumbles*



HA, LL read through all this.... even I had problems going through it, it nearly is or is over 240 pages long which is insane.
However as for the Aristotle program, google it. you will note alot of bad press for the company, I think LL went for something cheap as a bail-out. thats why I suggested

Veratad Technologies, LLC as a alternate. They were used by the U.S. Departement of Justice to present testimony on the effectiveness of online age verification in the ongoing ACLU challenge to the constitutionality of the Child Online Protection Act (COPA). (*direct excerpt from http://www.allbusiness.com/government/3922531-1.html *) and for that (and a quick google search I did not find anything immediately saying they suck or had legal issues or anything else of the ilk as well as thier website actually has alot of solutions that would be easily scalable with the way sl works and could definately fix our "broken" age-verification system that we currently have.

Thx Mulder (or can I call you Spooky ? ) tee hee

I'm officially washing my hands of the *I* Am Adult Content Group. It was formed by a friend of mine to discuss how to deal with this whole Linden Adult Content Fiasco, but every freaking day I pop online, I get bombarded in group IM from whining, self-entitled, self-righteous pointyheads who compare the Ursula landmass to the concentration camps Hitler created for the Jews during the Holocaust.

Just stop it. Stop it right now. There is NO comparison. Your argument is invalid.

Why would the Lindens listen to you now? You've compared them to the Third Reich. Yes, it sucks that "Adult Content" is being moved to a giant landmass; a Second Life leper colony (should have named it Molokai). Yes, it sucks that some people stand to lose a little money. But GOD, STOP COMPARING YOURSELVES TO SOMETHING YOU AREN'T.

I have a simple solution: If you're offended by anything you see in Second Life, teleport elsewhere. If someone pisses you off, MUTE them. UNFRIEND them. Pretty simple, huh? It works so well. Lindens, you created those widgets. Why can't you use them for yourselves?

If you have an issue with what Lindens are doing, they all have office hours.

In biology you have three choices for survival: Adapt (make change), Move, or Die. The way I see it, Second Life is the same.

I'm not going to tell someone how to live their life, but honestly if all you do is post about how evil Linden is and how much like Hitler they are, I'm calling you out on it.

Shenanigans. Plain and simple.

Yes i did have a look after and saw that they have had bad press I do believe tho that LL needs not just one method of verification but several so that everyone has the chance to verify to play and then this adult continent idea can be done away with and we can get back to SL

Problem is I think they are taking the easier way out and making adult move rather than insisting everyone is verified as it used to be because now there are so many people signed up

I do hope that the link you have provided is looked at by them if it hasn't already as i would hate to see the grid diminish in size as there are some great people here but we shall see

Well thats better than some of things i have been called in the past LMAO

The island issue is troubling me. On one island I have one adult vendor, you can't see it from outside the building. I'm more than happy to force teleport routing to outside the building and put up adult content signs to forewarn people but it seems a bit silly for me to have the choice of marking the whole island adult or getting rid of said vendor, which is what I'd do if it's deemed adult content because I'm not changing the whole island to adult.

The lack of responses from the Lindens is disappointing.

OK, OK, I know that there is a SEGMENT of people out there that don't like so-called ADULT CONTENT on the GRID and that they feel that is a way that they can CLEAN UP the internet in some small way, but the majority of us couldn't give two snaps about it either way. If we see something we disagree with we move on to another site, the same SHOULD apply to Second Life (at least I and some of my friends feel that way). If that segment of users doesn't like a particular sim that doesn't mean that the rest of us don't like it. Those of us who do like ADULT themed sims should be penalized for it and shuffled to some out of the way corner of the GRID like naughty little children, WE ARE NOT, we simply follow a lifestyle that is different, that is all. My problem with this is that the fact that I as an animation provider for ADULT animations would be penalized and forced to move to this new area even though I have a store in a mature sim AND have age verification on the store, plus the fact that my site advertising strictly states that the content in my store is intended for for ADULT and MATURE purposes. I still get grieved by people from this one segment (sometimes that's how business goes, in RL or SL). OK, NOW FOR MY IDEAS ON HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM: Linden should continue to refine the definitions on what is ADULT and what is. Fix the filters in the search engines so that users can refine their searches better to exclude or include said content. Finally, fix the age verification so that ONLY those people with ages over 21 can get into an ADULT area or business. These fixes would ensure that ANYONE who does not wish to visit adult themed areas won't and if they do it's their own bloody fault. If you try to move ALL of the Adult-oriented businesses in SL to one area ( and this includes furniture, animations, attachments, etc.) most of the smaller businesses will have to shut down from too concentrated a market in too small an area or the Lindens will find that they have to keep expanding that area as new businesses try to start up (most likely to happen). JUST LEAVE THE BUSINESSES AND AREAS WHERE THEY ARE AT AND IMPLEMENT TIGHTER CONTROLS AS TO ACCESS TO THOSE AREAS AND BUSINESSES. This will make everyone happy at the same time AND keep everyone that WAS happy to be in SL here, instead of losing a VERY large population of Residents.

SL IS NOT THE LAND OF THE FEW BUT RATHER THE LAND OF THE MANY

Respect that not all of us view Adult Content as DARK, DIRTY, OR SINFUL and have a very healthy view of sexual experimentation as safe exploration into something we might not ordinarily try in RL. DON'T PENALIZE US FOR BEING DIFFERENT !!!

There are two possible conclusions that can be reached from that number:

1. Linden Labs only wants to move the really freaky stuff.
2. Linden Labs has miscalculated the numbers.

Which is why people have been asking Linden Labs to (a) explain how they came up with those numbers, and (b) define what they think should be moved.

When KB6010 described "M" in terms that are comparable to "G rated", and "PG" as a professional business environment, and Blondin Linden has repeatedly stated that strip clubs count as adult, then it's really not unreasonable to question whether option "2." is the case.

In 180 years it will be of similar historical interest to Hokusai's octopus.

totally agree with your post.

I don't want to see my favorite places, Like the Monkey close, but we all just have to adapt.
Yes. It sucks, but deal.

The sex industry did the same thing to this forum that they have done to SL.

So , now "as asked" to define what should be adult ? The sex industry should also avoid using Adult terms while trying to define it. I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted that , but doesn't that seem a little unrealistic to you ?

Oh come now! If LL builds a pg-only continent, and says:

"look we realize that some customers don't like the idea of "living" within cam distance of hardcore sex and violence, so we're giving them a new option- a place where hardcore sex and violence isn't welcome. the whole place is PG, and we will *vigorously* enforce the community standard here- *harshly*. The rest of SL is mixed use, and our success tells us that most people are happy with that, but we've had complaints, so we're offering an alternative"


How is that going to be received by the residents as *anything* other than a good idea? How is there going to be any peer pressure whatsoever about it? Land prices and size will be determined by the popularity of the move, there will be an area for corporations and reporters to go, and everyone who likes things the way they are need do *nothing*.

That said, this is a fait accompli, and they are simply offering us the opportunity to vent about it/possibly affect the definition of the ghettoized activities.
This is in no way a satisfactory situation, unless one wishes to see SL cleansed of everything one doesn't consider "moral and decent". The trouble is, the only definition of "moral and decent" that will satisfy everyone who is complaining will be the most draconian. And under that definition, things will be pretty damn dull for the rest of us.

Or, as the great George Hamilton put it in "Love at First Bite", "Very Well! I go. But Without me, Transylvania will be as exciting as Bucharest... on a Monday night!"

V

That may be - but that doesn't make the rest of us, who aren't part of the sex industry but support freedom, any less right.

SL is an imaginary world. It is fake sex. Wake up Linden. It is not real. Do you get it?

It is insane to even think you can legislate morality in your dream! Get real.

anarchy sounds good in theory, but in practice, it's a failed state controlled by the most sociopathic.

__________

Profile of the Sociopath

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

*taps finger against the table while waiting*..

hmmm... dunno as far as "anarchy" goes, but it definitely describes to a 't' the leader and the "democracy" i'd previously lived under for eight years...