Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

They talk much, when a day is long. As long you have no rl-paper in hands, signed by the Linden-boss Mark Kingdon, stamped, life-time guarantee/letter of credit with a bundle of paragraphs on backside wich assure you again about the content of the paper, verífied and ratified by you and your attorney and a notary, safeguarded in notary proofed dublicates and originals at your home, at notary and in a bank-safe -

as long you have nothing like that in your hands, you can count on nothing they said, because their TOS and their general behavior makes all what they say to meaningless blabla, wich can change any second by any or no reason.

Jenn;

Your glaringly incomplete statement neglects one fact:

Not all of them will. Regardless there will be significant losses.

Personally I would rather leave SL that give LL my passport or license number. In this day and age the risk is not worth the reward. Its way too easy for this info to fall into the wrong hands and be used to steal my identity. You already have my CC number and address. That should suffice.

Sorry, I'm out.

Rush

I know

and the worst thing of course is now I'll be AR fodder. I've got a criminal record with LL already because i had a piece of 2048 for sale before the change to advertising and it had 2 for sale signs about 15m off the ground and spinning. my bad for forgetting about them when the change occurred.

But if people are petty enough to AR over something like that then the shop is really just a sitting duck waiting to be taken out by those with malevolent intent.

Don't rely too heavily on Blondin/Jack/Blue/Whoever Linden's definition of "adult" too heavily; It depends on whichever Linden reads the AR and responds to it. And I can assure you, there will be a massive spate of false positives resulting in lower-end "adult" content getting ghettoized while stuff that really ought to be there is either glossed over, or simply overlooked in the rest of the deluge.

I have no hope whatsoever that enforcement will be consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Couldbe Yue
http://www.mindinsomnia.com/AdultContentPolls.htm

i was using firefox with noscript and even when i allowed all on the page it came up as a web 00000.00001 page (if you know what i mean )

with ie it comes up perfectly

just trotting off to take it now


Trotting in kinda half-arsed I came upon this and thought to myself. Ok, this poll makes a dumb kinda sense... Yet you wanna know something?

Public Nudity should be rated as: MATURE
Argument why: 3 words & a acronym, Nude Beaches in RL

Public nudity for non-human avatars (eg: furries) should be rated as: MATURE
Argument why: Ever been to a fur-con?

Public text based role playing of sexual scenes (even with no visuals at all and between 2 clothed avatars) should be rated as: MATURE
Argument why: Read any good steamy romance novels lately?

I rest my case. Hardly ANYTHING you see in SL (besides the snuff, rape, etc. etc. [I'm talkin heavy-duty type stuff]) isn't anything that you most likely wouldnt find in your own back-yard (figuratively speaking).
I think that Extreme should fall under the premise of, "Dang! Is that legal?" (in stating something like this I mean in the effect that something is in fact visually shocking and NOT something you would see one way or another in ordinary life NORMALLY)

However, if the content of SL offends you, do a google search for something, anything (nothing insanely obscure but something you would actually search for at one time or another) I'll bet you a million linden right now that there will be a freakin link SOMEWHERE in those lists that links to a "top-site" full of porn links or to a porn site itself. Tell you what, you don't like extreme adult content? (I'm not advocating it either but posting a un-biased opinion based on real-world experience with the subject) You might as well unplug your computer or install net-nanny (not endorsed by the author of this post but only used as a example) so those bad little porn sites don't creep through your blissfully unaware life. Oh you might as well lock all the doors too and buy everything online including your groceries so you never have to go outdoors to see all the nastyness that is our world and what a cesspool it has become.
Don't forget to uninstall secondlife too because theres a great replacement that "allegedly has no nakedness or sex or naughtybits in it" called *gasp* TSO (The Sims Online - Also not endorsed by the author of this post or by the company hosting this paticular forum and is NOT used as a example. You don't like the adult content in SL, go to TSO and stop complaining everytime a nipple pops out of someones dress[citing the Janet Jackson fiasco for humor value])

So far I know this is all one-sided however the only "puritans" I can think of are Religious people (Main denominations like Catholicism, Christians, Jeudeaism, Mormons, etc. whom I have every respect for and thier selected faith) That really don't wish to see this kind of stuff. So if you don't want to see it, don't click the mature checkbox when your doing a search. 99% of those searches will prove to be all PG, and if something IS indeed adult content yet flagged as PG? A AR report works just fine. (cept in the case when the estate owner has elected to handle all AR's themselves so the lindens never see it, then you just file a ticket instead.)

On the "Puritian" side of things:
Take Stepford for example (yes I'm singling YOU out... There are some extremes that I won't even tolerate.. and thats saying something) that on a search for Adult and City I stumbled across this place (to be honest I didn't look completely at the description first so I can be to blame for that yet this is a perfect example) I didn't even know what the frack "Dolcette" was till I looked it up on Wikipedia. I was completely appaled, granted I and a bona-fide defender of freedom of expression but DANG... seriously. I don't see how anybody could like that stuff. That and I swear I could feel my eyes bleed. All I wanted to do was TP anywhere but there and I did so (I liked the whole bus thing though it was a nice touch for getting around in the city... wish more places did stuff like that. ^_^)

Which brings me to "Hard Alley" Sorry Hard Rust but its gotta be said that I'm pretty sure your place is DEFINATELY on the list of places to move to this "Adult" area because it could easily be considered "extreme" and I have accidentally flown into that region several times (and I do mean accidentally as there has been some times I take off and start flying in some random direction from a store I was just at or something to find a rez spot to open up meh box and get my goodies and BAM, I run into it. Granted its about 600 meters in the air (so hard to reach to the casual traveller without a flight assist) however the description (if someone checked the 'about land' bit for example) uses alot of terms that hit on the "Extreme" side of adult play (from my perspective anyway). Now granted this SHOULD keep out most people just seeing the name of the place up top and keep them moving but our human nature still begs us to explore more to check it out and find it, we search, we TP, we feel violated just stepping foot into the area (Again not talking about myself personally as I belive it to be very well built, just filled with too many newbs and 3-primmers askin for sexxins).

There are several other areas that I can point out but won't as they know who they are that will more than likely be affected by this move. Remember the time LL pretty much gave everybody the right to be the "Thought Police" (A poke at the movie "http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/ - Equilibrium" made in 2002) By instructing residents to report "Broadly offensive content" (a bad move in my mind and this new move by LL does NOT make up for it.)

I belive personally that LL should not have to bow to every country, every new regulation posted as technically they do have a partial immunity only being the "host" of all this content and not the direct supplier of such. We should be responsible for our own decisions, our own choices and our own mistakes. LL shouldn't have to bow and scrape at every person who says they will raise all heck if they don't get all the adult stuff outta thier view (again if you don't like all the adult stuff, go to TSO...) WE ARE THE CONTENT CREATORS, WE ARE ADULTS AND, WE ARE CAPABLE OF MAKING OUR OWN DECISIONS TO STAY IN A ADULT ORIENTED AREA OR TO SIMPLY IGNORE THE AREAS FLAGGED AS MATURE IN THE SEARCH AND TO CHECK THE DESCRIPTION OF A AREA BEFORE ACTUALLY TELEPORTING IN. IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THIS, AND NOT LL'S JOB.
LINDEN LABS AIN'T YER MOTHER AND IT SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CLEAN UP AFTER YOU.

ok, *pants* after all this I think I should leave it at this <end rant>

Personally I don't care, though I'd rather it be elsewhere.

I've been a member here in SecondLife for over 2 years now. The new rules and Sim that SecondLife has plans for making for Mature Content only is crazy. I've been in both the PG and Mature Sims and have never seen either one being abused. I'm speaking only for myself of course and don't doubt that it has been by others. SecondLife alread has Age Verifications for the Mature Sims. Why not just enforce the rules that are already in SecondLife, rather than invent new rules and make things harder for all of us to enjoy by making this new Sim? Before a person takes there Avatar into a place in SecondLife, they see the title of the Sim stating whether it contains Mature content or not. If the person is offended by the Mature content, then leave immediately. They know they're going to see some things that may offend them. Again, please don't make things more complicated than they are. Just enforce the rules that are already in place.

and why's that?

Actually, it's pretty safe to assume that a lot will. Dunno if it will be a majority or not but people feel a lot safer being anonymous when they're acutally able to be anonymous. LL can say as many times as they want that the info is safe but once they ask for the info, lots will walk away.

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Thank you. I've never come across Dolcett before and after reading Wikia I would like to say to anyone out there who goes looking for the definition
*** Dolcett is *not* BDSM ***


I always thought that SL had an element of people who should be heavily sedated, now I know for sure. If this is what LL are really looking at when they talk about the 2 - 4% then I'm with them.. put these guys on their own grid and don't ever let them near other folk again. I'd rather be locked in a room with Nany than this lot.

Tolerance be damned.

edited to add.
I wish to apologise unreservedly to those who participate in vore/dolcett activities only in second life. One of the strengths of second life - and the thing that separates SL from the rest of the web is tolerance and consent.

I admit that after checking out a couple of different Dolcett forums and probably reading a couple of dozen stories about women (always women - not one man as victim) being abducted, sexually assaulted, decapitated, dismembered and then eaten, I was feeling pretty unhappy.

BUT. in here you have to give consent to being non consensually attacked. That's the difference.

This activity may be distasteful to me and out on the web I'd be the first to have the door open to let the authorities close it down if it were at all possible and if i had so much of an inkling that this was ever transferred into rl I'd be on the doorstep of every relevant authority so quickly that you're head would spin.

In here it's different because there is consent and encapsulates the whole problem we have. How do you protect people from things that are outside their experience yet allow everyone to enjoy their second life?

Strip clubs and brothels are closer to the gardens of Apollo than Dolcett. yet current thinking is they're both adult. I've lived long enough in both worlds that I'm pretty fine with most aspects of human behaviour. Yet I was shocked by Dolcett.

SL is a worldwide thing, so many different cultures and life experiences all mingling together. There does need to a way to identify to people that there are things they could see that they won't understand or like and then let them make an informed choice whether or not they want to proceed.

If my shop does stay on the mainland then there will be people who are horrified by what it contains. Just like if I was to venture into kinkyville and discovered the Dolcett sim.

We can't be nannied about this though. The bottom line is tolerance and consent. We may not like or agree with everything we see, but if all parties involved consent to being there then we have no cause for complaint and need to move on.

Tolerance is something that we all understand but it's not explicitly part of peoples understanding of second life. This is something that does need to change along with the introduction of the ratings system. Otherwise there will be people who take it as an indication that they can go on a moral crusade to further 'clean up' the grid.

I don't know.

TBH I'd rather have a rating of extreme rather than adult and let the rest of us carry on with what we do. but then how do you define extreme?

BTW: I changed the wikia entry to make it less emotive and more precise. No matter what the original poster of the entry thought, it is not BDSM simply because the practitioners on the web do not recognise the concept of consent. BDSM may be a broad church, but it's not that broad.

Well, you do care somewhat because you came here and spoke up for LL's plan. I was just curious if you were in favor of forcing all of such stuff off the mainland-in-general or if more warning would be good enough to keep you happy..

Take the sims that are labeled "Mature" and turn them in to adult sims, and take the new ones and make them G. Why is LL's messing with it like this?

Because...

SL is looking for more big businesses to become part of SL. Will this work? I say no. Why? It's going to drive away the residents they already have and it's not going to bring in businesses. SL is too laggy and slow for corporate businesses.

This is all a reason to try to make regular business owners who sell "adult content" to buy their own sims. A lot of people are just going to leave when their businesses start to die, and sales drop off. It'll be slow at first. A very slow decline. People won't be able to find the content that they are looking for. The searches are going to be segregated, and probably adult searches are also going to have PG content mixed in. But not vice versa.

Our college and it is a big one passed on SL as a learning platform. Why? Because of the lag. The professor got on and was looking around and said the controls were horrible, the newbie area was laggy, and the mainland was ugly. He could cared less about any adult stuff, and when I asked him he said he didn't see any, but he seen horrible ugly builds and bullets locked in mid-air. Stuff floating around. When I asked him if our college would be willing to purchase a sim he said no. Why? See all of the above.

If businesses wanted something like SL they would just install the open source Open Sim software. While it may not be as robust in scripting as LL's stuff is the servers are more stable depending on your ram and everything on your host machine. This is most likely what will happen. I installed an OpenSim on my own machine for my own personal sandbox so I can test my animations, sculpts, etc before I bring them in to SL.

But SL initiating segregation is horrible. Just because a few people are offended by seeing a penis or whatever happened to make them think this was a good idea is a bad idea. They said there was a vote on the adult content thing... But... Did anyone here vote on this? Was it shareholders? Was it only the Lindens? I really implore LL's to rethink this before it goes in to action. This might mark the demise of SL for many business owners. Because I will not buy a sim. It wouldn't be beneficial to my business and the cost far outweighs the need.


So, kinda in closing...

1. Making people buy a sim and mark it "adult" to sell adult content is not going to boost sim sales. In fact it's going to make a lot of people mad who don't have money to burn on setup fees, and maitence fees for it. Not to mention having to monitor their sim or rent out pieces of it to make up the cost of owning it.

2. SL is still far too laggy to market itself as a business only platform. Big businesses are still going to overlook SL because of it's laggy-ness and also because a big name company is going to want something like that to be branded for themselves. They'd want something they could integrate in to their own website rather then make someone download a 3rd party browser and then go to a SLURL.

3. Why not make an option to make parcels adult only. Or put a height mark on selling adult content. You have to have your adult shop 3000 feet in the air. Or something. If someone is up flying that high and sees a penis and gets offended then why were they up that high unless they wanted to be offended.

4. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Why take this good thing LL's has here right now, and break it? Adult stuff over here... Everything else over here... I thought segregation went out in the 60's.

5. What is the point of putting adult stuff somewhere out of sight and out of mind? There isn't one...


You see if you live in a little blue, green, and white bauble I like to call Earth you're going to be offended every day of your life. You're going to see things that you don't like. You can look out your own RL window and see something that might offend you. Hell, turn on the news... You'll be offended about 100x over. You have to learn to live with being offended. If you don't want to see something offensive then don't go there. If you want to make sure you have a good happy experience stick to sims that are strict about their policies. Mainland is and always has been a mess. Hell, I have someone who made a big dildo outside my shop. All I did was tint the windows. I'm not offended. I don't really care. Would I like it not there? You bet, but they own the land so nothing I can really do about it, but not look at it. *laughs*

Well... I guess all anyone can do is protest this.

I second that with a WTMKF and a FOAD

Morganna

Yes, I suspect this IS exactly the sort of thing LL is trying to section off from the general population. Too many people are ranting and raving about LL banishing all the strip clubs and nude beaches and people having guests over for sex in their private homes, when come on, be practical, if that's really what they were looking at, it would be way more than 2-4%.

OOOOH looky, you too could own your very own Dolcett area - there's one for sale on the mainland, with all the fixin's too (presumably you have to provide your own slave girls to kill and eat).

Of course if they're smart they would wait to sell it until they get forcibly moved to Porntopia, where they can fetch premium prices.

Seriously, LL, you need to get more of your representatives in here to clarify things so people stop freaking out. I tried to offer doggie kisses, but it didn't seem to help, and someone even suggested that such innocent affection between humans and creatures would be grounds for removal to the bad place! Now if THAT'S true, what's a doggie to do?

Is there an 'or-else' attached to this seeming coercive harassment?

Sell me a pack of rl Camel Lights or a shot of Cuervo and I'll be flattered to flash my ID to one salesperson (who will keep no record of my vital stats).

How do you age verify someone from Mozambique?

Well thats a bloody first... people actually agreeing with me o.O The world has flipped on its axis! We're all a gonna die!

well... not really but you get my point I'm tryin to make, one is just like Insanely beyond the extreme (Stephford) while the other one just pushes the envelope slightly too much (hard alley[personally I think this is freakin disney channel compared to stephford])

I sense another blog post comin up... at least there I can speak my mind completely and uncensored... like howard stern.... no, not like him... hes ugly I'm cute and lovable... I think...

===============
Prep for the next installment of http://ex0dus.nia-inc.net
link not sponsored or affilated with SecondLife, LindenLabs or any affilated logo or subsidary company.
...Great can someone mention to the lindens if your gonna break the URL BBCode functionality to at least remove the boards default habit of attempting to parse the links and tacking on the BBCode for it? Uggh... Its VBull... you can guess the rest... its not rocketscience... Heck I'll do it for you! Just drop me a PM.

From Detector found on this forum:

Sample taken Friday 11am-9pm SL

Visitors 492

Payment Info Used 171

No Payment Info 321

I'm sure the new residents flooding in from all the new corporate and educational customers attracted by the new, cleaned up SL will more than make up for any losses in your current customer base.

Except for those of us that profit off the "unclean" (subjective term) population. If all we get is new corporate and educational customers what use will they have in a shop that sells dungeon furniture or latex?

If these new people do come to us still then what use was there in "cleaning up" if the new "clean" people are still going to use all the adult stores?

When i first joined SL a few years ago i downloaded the game installed it and than i checked a little thing that asked if i was an Adult, i clicked yes....now as a Father that has a child on the internet i have to keep an eye on what my kid looks at and plays....This is me being an adult.....She is not allowed to play the adult version of this game and plays the teen version.... Now I see this and think, hell if i want to play a PG game lets go back and play WOW, EQ2, or any of the several PG rated games out there....as far as the age check you all need to rethink that....i use paypal for SLexchange and in game. OK so some ppl in game dont like the nude or crude in SL, fine join the teen version and let us adults work, play, and enjoy the Adult area.... next thing i see is these ppl trying to constrain My Rights to see these if i want or interact with the adult content such as the RP that is one of the things many of us ADULTS do....if the ppl that cannot handle the Adult content don't want to see it, go bye you're own sim or get togeather with others and bye a few sims and do youre own thing, now thats what an adult would do.....ahh and if youre talking about a kid being on, well if i find out a kid is on around me i turn them in ASAP.... and if its youre kid all i got to say is, Act like an adult and keep youre kid out of ADULT games.

now that i have said that i think it is a bad idea that you are making ppl move.....what you should do since this is going to happen is build the other area give free moves to that area send all new avatars to that area make that little check mark about Adult or teen that i was talking about a little bigger and make them watch a video before being able to say yes or no. if check yes have them make an account with/on SLexchange with a card or account, don't make us use a 3rd party to check age, not only is that a bad idea if my account gets stolen from that sight ill come after not only there owners but LL for compansation, better to keep it in house...

now i have to Laugh if you all think that only 2-4% of the mainland is going to have to move you must be in a differant SL than me....i would say closer to 80-90%.... guns skins almost all quality built items have some adult content in it, or if not that item than other items in the same store. Now i do understand that the other ppl that feel they that they want to be adults and play this game with others that are adults, that's fine design an area and group that fits that need just like everyone else in SL. if on the mainland go out and bye a sacuraty system for you're little piece of sl and regulate it you're self.

In simple English let us all be adults and act that way on the adult server....if i have a problem with someone i kick them from my little piece of land and keep them off, oh and mute them.... problem solved i didn't affect others and i didn't try to infringe on someone else's rights... That's that this is all about my rights being messed with for a few ppl that cannot act like adults on the adult server....

to let you know if i have to move my area and lose L$ than do not think ill stay in SL since it will no longer be an adult game it will be pg game that is way way outdated....
think about this LL since through you i have 4 paid accounts and RL$ gets changed back and forth alot from me and there are many many more just like me, many more than the few that are asking for all these changes...

and collages may come here and make up for some of us but i be alot of other big name consumers will leave since ppl like me will be leaving and so will any advertising or selling of goods will be gone..... since the ppl that have rl$ and bye itoms will just leave or stay in the adult zone on the adult server

BTW the collages bye there own sims and do there own thing there not on the mainland so its a lose lose situation..I know my collage had 6 sims and i built for them after graduation for a while...

I hate you! You got my hopes up there for a second!

Who do I have to f*ck^H^H^H^Hrape^H^H^H^Hmutilate around here to get to Ursula???

Quite right. (I suggested the same in some long-buried post.) Given that they just have no a priori definition of what constitutes "Adult", I think those numbers (and the target size of Ursula) will determine the definition initially, adjusted over time as new Mainland sims are readied for auction.

To those scrambling to stay non-Adult: yeah, I get it that an Adult tag would mean some loss of business for you. But please understand that by trying to avoid that tag, you're playing into the hands of the regulators, ensuring that the definition (and its interpretation) will be broadened until Ursula is full: they're not going to let a few hundred shiny new sims sit empty.

Please also understand that if you remain sub-Adult for a time, it will make the eventual, inevitable passage to Adulthood much, much more painful and costly. The speculator-inflated land prices on Ursula will be the least of it. What will bite much more is the fact that by staying accessible for a time, your customers will be lulled into complacency about this issue, and fail to verify.

Then, when you're swept up in one of the subsequent waves of Ethical Cleansing, those customers won't follow you. Instead, like gradually boiling frogs, they'll just slowly Disneyfy themselves until they lose interest and leave SL, until there are no Adult residents at all.

You know something...

I'm mining this thread, trying to find any gleaning of data for my own personal enlightenment within this expansive thread, but what I'm getting is a massively weighted signal to noise ratio. I think one of the reasons why people are either not informed or acting hostile here is that fast that any info we can work with here is drowned out in the noise of paranoia.

I remember reading somewhere that not all mature sims will be forced to go adult... I say remember as in "I'm sure I saw that... 100% even!".

LL wanted feedback. Honest, earnest, sincere feedback. Advice even. With what I'm seeing here, I wouldn't be surprised if the wrong path was taken. There's too much howling for the pitchforks and torches to even see where any good info is.