Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

apart from the fact it's blank it looks good to me so far.. it's certainly better than I could come up with

Well...if anyone at LL is actually reading all this.......could they please consider a superb alternative that makes sense, would be easy to implement, and which would quite definitely solve the issue of people 'accidentally' seeing unwanted content. Indeed...this idea actually gets the horse before the cart...so to speak :-

SELF CERTIFICATION :

A simple idea. When a person joins SL, they are given a simple range of questions that obtain their acceptance level of mature and adult things. No need to make it complex. Based on the answers.....that resident is then given a one letter tag...which they can display or hide, up to them.

Now the PUPOSE of this tag if simple. It allows those running adult sims ( no need in this method to create a new adult flag for sims ) to automatically bar anyone whose tag effectively says ' I cannot cope with adult themes'. Such a person simply would not be able to enter such a site in the first place. There would be NO danger of anyone 'accidentally' entering such a site.

This all shifts the policing of things to individual responsibility......rather than Lindens and adult theme sites having to make complex ( and unwanted ) changes. Anyone not having the appropriate tag would have no excuse if they saw adult content in a site set up to exclude the 'sensitive'.

It also seems far less likely that any site owner would forget to set up their site accordingly. But that is really no different to the issue that exists anyway, of how to enforce definitions.....and it exists whatever method is adopted. I would argue that in this method, a false setup is less likely.....for the simple reason that 'Exclude group xxx' would be a one click option.

The best aspect of this method is that you really don't need to have page after page of definition of 'adult content'. It places the emphasis far more on defining those who are 'easily offended'.....which I think most people would judge is a lot easier to do !

Blank? o.o.. that can't good.

Well it has on it is basically:
"Polls on what is and isn't Adult Content:"

Then there is 3 poles just below that which can be voted 'Adult' or 'Mature' on. If it's not appearing, it might be because you have javascript turned off? Or something like that? I don't know, I didn't experiment much with it, just threw it together really.

What is such a big deal about sex or nudity? Sexuality is part of humanity, and is absolutely normal behavior. It would be abnormal if we don't respect our own body. As such, why do we see these things any different from normal life and treat them differently from anything else?

When you treat them differently, you are reducing yourself into less than an adult, because you assume that you don't have the right judgment to know anything different. That people don't have a brain to know otherwise, therefore, it has to be regulated and decide for you what you should or should not be doing.

Remember, even in the dictatorial and control-freak U.S., the law on decency is really based on "community standard." If the "community" sees it acceptable, there is no problem whatsoever if you want to have sex in the public and go naked all day long. If no one is complaining, there is no problem.

So the question is, who is complaining? What percentage of people complain? Is it a majority or a minority?

http://www.mindinsomnia.com/AdultContentPolls.htm

i was using firefox with noscript and even when i allowed all on the page it came up as a web 00000.00001 page (if you know what i mean )

with ie it comes up perfectly

just trotting off to take it now

I believe this is the easiest and most effective way to deal with the issue.

If SL = a porn website

You enter SL

You must like porn

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much

Hmm.....I see nobody gave much thought to this conundrum which I posted earlier ( and which incidentally would not exist under the Self Certification method I just proposed )


Private Residences

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The whole issue of 'private residences' is a nightmare in the making.

I mean...what exactly is a private residence ? One cannot simply define it as any place where someone resides and there isn't a public club.

HERE IS THE CONUNDRUM. LL I HOPE YOU ARE READING :-


If I was the only person living on a sim, and nobody else ever entered....then yes that would be private. But the minute you introduce anyone else, it gets complicated.

What if I have one friend and grant them unrestricted access to a 'private' dungeon on my sim ? Is this then a public sim ? Hardly....as 99.999% of the public are barred. Most would agree that this is just a little private situation. No problems.

OK...so what about 5 friends ? Just a little collection of friends. Only 5....nothing hugely public. Even with this...most would agree...just a private do. Though some might start to disagree.

What about 30 friends ? Or 100, or 200 ?

What if I have 1000 friends and give them all the same access ? Hmm...i think by that point most would argue I was running a public sim.

But...who is going to tell me how many friends makes that so ??? Where is the LL edict on how long a piece of string is ?

And how would any such edict possibly be enforced ? How do you know those 1000 people are not really all my private friends ??

I predict this issue will cause major problems.

w00t! So according to Jack my cute little cartoons of people boinking in kinky ways won't be affected because not one is being tortured or dismembered. YAY! I can continue to blanket every square inch of Mainland with sex.. hehehehe.. "Come Pinky it's time to take over the world".

Looks like another classic backpeddling tapdance by LL after setting off a firestorm with a perfectly executed 'operation foot-shoot'.

Thanks for sharing Moon.

Patasha

I'm sure this will be an ignorant question so, forgive me if it is. I don't understand why you need to 'move' these mature sims? At least that's what I understand will happen, perhaps I am wrong. I know a lot of people who've worked very hard recently on their RP sims that are set to mature, as well as many shop owners who've set their sims to Mature and there is no mature content, it's only set so people can be 'free'. My main question, as I sure I will have more later, is why can't you make the mature sims just age verify and leave them be? Also, maybe it should be easier for others who cannot pay for lindens to age verify? I've heard people complain at how difficult it is or that they can't figure out how to do it.Anyway, I'll keep doing research into this major change.

After thought: I just don't understand why things must change so much because kids find their way into a virtual place that was not intended for them. Just doesn't seem 'fair' in a sense to those of us who are of age.

Essential, yes, but not possible. Let's talk about films for a moment. Each film is an invidvidual product. It is submitted to a ratings board, which then grants a rating based on their published guidelines. Note two things here. First, the rating given is subjective. It represents the collective opinion of the ratings board. There have been many cases where a decision by the board has been questioned. Even in a culture as homogenous as the USA, people have been unable to agree on what constitutes "adult content". Second Life is MUCH more diverse, we have residents from cultures around the globe.

The second thing is that EVERY film has to be evaluated and rated. Each film is a "product". Is LL going to have the G-Team evaluate EVERY new club, every build, every new product created? There are many more products made in SL than films made in Hollywood...it would be an enormous task. Not to mention that submitting one's creation for judgement is, in itself, an enormous stumbling block to creativity. Every time I make something from now on, I'll have to ask myself, "what would the G-Team think?" And I will have this in the back of my mind *even if there is no requirement to get an official blessing*. Because I'll always be aware that somebody might AR my creation for having, in their opinion, too much "adult content".

Yes, we have signs and T-Shirts. Contact me in-world and I will share

Sapphire Hissop

I may have missed it but I don't see anyone addressing the real question. Which is easier? NEITHER

Why should we the users be forced to do such work and changes to comply with a background change happening in Second Life? That is Linden Labs burden, they created the mess, they should have to clean it up.

And there is NO need what so ever for hardly any of this. The absolute MOST change needed is adding "adult" markings to sims that sim owners must set, and will be punished if it is found that they do in fact have explicit (as defined by our United States Federal government to which Second Life and Linden Labs is under due to their location in california). If you don't want to see adult content, choose an option that either disallows or warns you you are entering a sim marked adult by it's owner. If you see something you don't like, LEAVE.

I'm being blunt, and for a reason.

You don't walk into mcdonalds and scream at the cashier for selling french fries. You don't walk into a legal strip club and call the cops.

I find most dance clubs offensive, for their choice in music, wearers of bling, and lack of animation overriders, but you know what i do about it? I leave the club.

Hi Folks,

I feel a strong need to comment on this new plan for several reasons:

1) I attempted age verification some time ago and was unsuccessful. Your provider Aristotle wanted a whole lot of additional personal information that I am totally unwilling to provide. Honestly, of all the data providers you could have chosen to perform this service they are probably the worst. I have no intention of provideing any information to the pet mailing list provider of the Republican Party! That just is NOT going to happen. For the record I am 47 years old and a native Californian. If those clowns can't verify that with a driver's license number they have a real problem. Switch providers and I might be willing to revisit this objection, and try again to age verify.

2) I am involved as part of the core group of Anam Turas which matains several sims on SL for use as a Pagan place of worship and learning. Some rituals involve nudity. It's part of several religeons practiced in the grove. Does that mean we are adult?? If so, might this be a freedom of religeon issue?? Why should any of us have to age verify to practice our beliefs?? To close our sims to the general public would be contrary to our very reason for existance. How do you intend to handle this in your proposed rules?

3) If you want to close the teen grid, please close it and be done with it. SL was concieved as a place for adults, not children. I for one resent the idea of having children forced onto the adult population of SL. It is not child safe, was never meant to be child safe, and given the current state of things likely can never be made child safe. There seems to be an ongoing effort in this country on the part of some folks to make the world safe for 5 year olds, I for one am sick of that trend.

4) Your percentage figures on "adult content" are skewed by several things:
* - every private home on the mainland with a sex bed should be considered adult as I'm certain people don't use them with thier cloths on. I'm sure kids will learn how to pan very quickly and get quite an education.
* - While "Adult Businesses" occupy a small land area, if you look at searches I'm sure you will see they make up a majority of SL searches.
* - Many "Adult" places are not on the mainland, but on islands. Most do not have restricted access. If suddenly you force access restrictions on these places the actual amount of roamable land area will be reduced dramaticly more than 4%.

5) I run a successful Tarot reading business out of the Gaia Rising sim. There are people out there who consider any such practice as "Devil Worship" and of course will not want little Jimmy exposed to such heratical activities. Once again, freedom of relegion. Will such a complaint cause an adult rating?

In summation this is a much trickier tap dance than you folks seem to appreciate. Little Jimmy and his friends really have no business on SL and I doubt most residents have any intrest in making the world safe for them. I also doubt that there will be a positive impact to Linden Labs corporate bottom line by allowing them access. I can see some very negative impacts due to lost economic activity, especially on content providers who make thier living off of SL. In an economy such as this do you really want to take food out of people's mouths to keep Jimmy safe and moral?? If you want to close the teen grid, please do, but leave it at that. You are biteing off more problems than you realise.

Do you realize people are using hardcore porn pics on the about land pics and are using them as a way for people to eye catch a property for sale when using search?

I believe I stumbled across it the other day searching for a 1024 lot. Call "Hollywood Orgy Room" or something to that effect.

Personally I don't care for adult content, but my question is where do you draw the line, because almost anything adult can be stumbled upon anywhere. Such as someone sticking hardcore porn pics in their about land profile.

So if a person rents a home from me and decides he wants a sex bed and upstairs dungeon do I have to police this? Are you saying this "new continent" is for adult providers or for anyone wanting to have virtual sex period?

In the Real World there are community standards that vary from state to state that define what is obscene and what isn't. Having worked as a game programmer for the adult business I can tell you that if you want to get serious about this sort of thing get the legal advice of lawyers familiar with US and international porn law. I often wonder about this, because adult role play on your server is different then someone selling movies that stream to a client which can actually violate RL community standards in certain states. Do you have this all covered?

Thanks,

Blaccard Burks

What about places which aren't adult in themselves but the people who come to them are generally what could be counted as 'adult rated'. My club is a very simple place, it has a sitting area, some walls, a few dance poles etc.. It's nothing really too extreme at all, except some very adult rated art on the walls. All drawings actually, no photos, but of some rather extreme things. But I could easily move these into a private area.

But I get visitors of EVERY type you could possibly imagine, and A LOT which you just simply can't! (No joke, unless your almost as dirty minded as myself, your jaw would hit the floor listening to the stories of what happens regularly in my club). Everyone is saying, "Oh Nudity is fine" and it seems LL is too... but what if the character which is nude, is a very tall, well built, transexual demon with 20 boobs and a 'member' that is large enough to be used as a bridge from Japan to China? ... is that still just the same as a nude human female?... Because to be honest, I get a lot of visitors in my club like that.. about 50%. >_>;; (Which is actually the focus of the club... >_>;;;;; )

Although all the sex happens downstairs out of sight. There is no visible poseballs for any sex in the main area of the club. All the naughty stuff is only available downstairs after you:
1. Walk down a flight of stairs
2. Walk though a doorway into a room
3. Walk through another doorway into a smaller room
4. Climb down a ladder
5. Enter a room after walking down a hallway

It's definitely not something you can 'stumble' onto accidently, there is clear warnings about what happens there on the way down and you really have to *want* to visit it. It's actually underground! I intentionally made it so that the private sex area is underground to make it harder to find! There is no entrance except through the main door, and as people enter, they would surely see the rules I put up that show the place is only for those interested in sex.

There is the occasionally naughtness that happens in the upstairs area, but it's done in IM's while people sit on the cuddle poseballs. It's not visible, although sometimes the cuddle poses are a little suggestive of what's happening in IM's.
Example: 2 people sitting in a hammock relaxing on my beach by some water. It's an innocent sight and no one would think there is anything going on, but in IM's both people could be doing something highly sexual!

This is why I'm saying we need specific examples, but sometimes at my club, nudity itself can be very extreme! But then it comes down to, what species are allowed to be nude? What genders? etc etc .. should there be a limit on the size of peoples... body parts... before they are considered extreme or adult?

I've seen lots of avatars where there is no actual penis visible, because the character is wearing pants. BUT! There is a long visible shape of what must be assumed to be a penis running down the length of the avatar's pants to hint and suggest such things. Does this mean that avatar's must have flat crotches now too even when wearing clothes?

These examples need to be mentioned by LL. If they like it or not, they are going to have to get their hands dirty and look at each of these examples, because they are going to have to make a decision on them either now, or later when a concerned parent AR's a patron of my club for looking too adult, just because she is naked!

[12:53] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. I think that is what we'll get to define, but my understanding is that normal Mature content is unaffected, but the most extreme stuff, torture, dismemberment etc, will move


Oh how silly !! I envisage page after page defining what 'torture' is. Is a nipple ring torture ? How about a ball gag ? Or being made to sit in a cage for 4 hours ? How about the 'Elephant' sized dildo at xxxxxx Castle ? Or being forced sex with a giant 8 foot spider ? Or simply being spanked.....is that torture ?

LL have it all ass backwards. It would be SO much simpler to get the horse before the cart and introduce the 'Self Certification' that I proposed. It is SO much easier to define 'Easily Offended' than it is to have to go through the entire far more complex gamut of adult themes and grade each one........a task LL will find impossible as there are new devices created every day.

Good one, Ceera. Note that it still requires relocation of a lot of content though...probably more so than LL's current plan. This would require that the current patchwork mainland, a PG parcel here, an M parcel next door, would have to change. Zoning would be at a sim level everywhere.

[EDIT: And what about parcels on sim borders? Maybe we should zone on a continent-wide basis after all. Or break the continents up into archipelagos, with at least an open water sim between a PG area and a Mature one.]

Even so, I would go along with this plan MUCH more readily than LL's forced relocations of a few as-yet-undefined residents to a new continent.

perhaps a long bow, but I don't believe that Aristotle does not aggregate and use all that lovely verification data.

The BBC has just posted this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7967648.stm

Greater use of social network sites is making it harder to maintain true anonymity, suggests research.

By analysing links between users of social sites, researchers were able to identify many people in supposedly anonymous data sets.

The anonymised data is produced by social sites who sell it to marketing firms to generate cash.

The results suggest web firms should do more to protect users' privacy, said the researchers.

Circle of friends

Computer scientists Arvind Narayanan and Dr Vitaly Shmatikov, from the University of Texas at Austin, developed the algorithm which turned the anonymous data back into names and addresses.

The data sets are usually stripped of personally identifiable information, such as names, before it is sold to marketing companies or researchers keen to plumb it for useful information.

Before now, it was thought sufficient to remove this data to make sure that the true identities of subjects could not be reconstructed.

The algorithm developed by the pair looks at relationships between all the members of a social network - not just the immediate friends that members of these sites connect to.

Social graphs from Twitter, Flickr and Live Journal were used in the research.

The pair found that one third of those who are on both Flickr and Twitter can be identified from the completely anonymous Twitter graph. This is despite the fact that the overlap of members between the two services is thought to be about 15%.

The researchers suggest that as social network sites become more heavily used, then people will find it increasingly difficult to maintain a veil of anonymity.

The results also had implications for the social sites themselves, wrote the researchers.

"Social-network operators should stop relying on anonymisation as the 'get out of jail' card, insofar as user privacy is concerned," they said.

"They should inform users when their information is disclosed to third parties, even if this information has been anonymised, and give them the opportunity to opt out," they added.

Writing about their work, the two researchers said many different organisations might be interested in reconstructing the true identities.

They suggest that the information might be useful to governments interested in large scale monitoring or unscrupulous marketing firms keen to reach certain individuals. Even phishing gangs might be interested, they speculate, to make their messages look more convincing.

The pair will present a paper about their work to the IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy taking place in California from 17-20 May.

On age verification

You know what passes or age verification on 99% of online content?

You input your birthday, unverified.

This leaves all liability on you and not the content provider. Even news websites, gaming sites, everything nearly uses this. It's enough to satisfy the law, and, get this, forces personal responsibility on the individual.

I don't care what "credentials" an age verification company has.

A) the internet is not secure, period.
B) There is no way for me to verify that this company does not sell any data I give them, or store it, leaving it out of my control and therefore less secure and now existent in yet another location other than those I control and have previously given to.
C) There are already teens who admit to being on SL main grid and have false age verification

This is actually a good thing. I'll just put in a very minor jab...you haven't yet told us where the "gray shades in between" are. Still waiting on that one.

So would everyone else.

Worth repeating.....can Blondin offer a solution to the problem below, aside from the usual LLspeak of everyone having to verify?

That breaches the already existing community standards. Profiles, land descriptions etc. should be PG in nature, especially if they're set to show in search. LL obviously can't police this and any attempt to ask for resident help is going to lead to snitch allegations so it's a difficult situation but what you describe is violating community standards.



It's for extreme adult content, if the person is running a brothel then it should be on the adult continent according to some, although it's hardly what you'd call extreme. You will have to take some responsibility as the landlord but to all intents and purposes if they're using it as a home it shouldn't be considered adult content...apparently, although nobody seems to be really sure.

What if I have 2 sex beds, a sex rug, a sex couch, sex dances...should I go on, or do you just want to stop by I am so confused and overly sexually stimulated by SL that I don't know what to think anymore

BT