Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

That's pretty narrow minded of you. How is one person's creation or business less deserving of the same terraforming and landscaping capabilities given to another? Why should adult content = sleazy build quality in your mind?

I've seen all sorts of builds that I'd love to throw up into the sky a few thousand meters, just to get them out of my sight, and most of them weren't sex clubs.

Honestly, while I very much get your point. I simply don't believe any workable definition is possible. In discussing body parts for example, can one only use the clinical term 'vulva' as one would when writing for Art in Armerica on a Georgia O'Keefe retrospective? Is the mere mention of 'the c word' by definition pornographic? In the US that's a doubleplusungood word. In the UK, it's practically a nickname.


The issue is that, in the US alone, the definition of porn vs art has been core bone of contention (pun intended) for more than a hundred years. From Larry Flint to Jesse Helms, there have been wildly divergent definitions and ultimately, so far, the only thing called 'officially off limits' in a country-wide way is child porn. While I *absolutely* feel child pornography is a threat to society and something that should be banned, even THAT has complexities. Setting aside pictures taken of me as a toddler by my parents that were without a flash of doubt COMPLETELY innocent.

Current law has even artificially generated images of child porn, where no child is actually photographed at all, as illegal. This is essentially legislating thought crime by punishing the creator for thinking of an rendering an image entirely from imagination. While I find the mere thought of such an image deeply revolting, I have a serious problem telling somebody what they can THINK because it leads to very very dangerous places.

- Kyle

Agreed, the people who were objecting won't be happy with this halfway house, the people who inspired those initial faq's will not be happy with the climbdown, they will keep gnawing away at it.

LL should be selling the adult continent to people and by selling I don't mean auctioning off the land to the highest bidder. The adult continent allows advertising, land descriptions and images that currently breach community standards. The adult continent gives (albeit flawed)extra verification for people to confirm they are of age. These issues should appeal to people creating adult content and running adult business.

LL should crackdown on some adult adverts and land descriptions, that would help to get the message home and might encourage people to move to the land where the laws are more liberal.

If LL were to let people apply for land swaps and help them move that way we'd see natural migration. The forced relocation is the big stumbling block and it's a massive stumbling block all of LL's own making.

They should also help estate owners with this, I'd love a flag that prevented access on a parcel level that actually worked. Some estates fill the gaps with adult content, if that starts getting removed due to an estate owner not wanting to flag a whole region as adult then estates could very well go under. There will be winners on the back of that of course, but I don't think LL would be one of them.

PS, I'm not paranoid- I'm *experienced*. Seriously, We just went through a huge to-do over LL regretting issuing openspace sims, and deciding to punish people with extra fees *for using them as advertized*. The fact that they didn't think in advance of the economics, or the server load of such a product didn't stop them from rolling it out to huge fanfare, and then yoinking it back when they realized that they'd made a mistake.

This will be no different.

V

I see your point. But I'm afraid that we are going to have to accept SOME form of age verification beyond the "I am over 18" check box. I don't like it, and no matter what system you use, there is always the chance your data will get disclosed or stolen. And the Aristotle scheme is simply horrible, everything from the provider's reputation to the problems with false registrations/inability to register/problems actually accessing age verified areas.

But before I knuckle under completely, I'd like to hear from some of the webporn people. Are there legal precedents in this area? Does that "over 18" check box protect a company from age-related lawsuits? What's the industry "best practice" here, what works and what doesn't?

Keep it an 18+ game, you shouldn't allow people to sign up without proof of age.

There are community standards in SL too, somewhat similar to those in RL. The problem is LL has done nothing to enforce and maintain them over the years. So now they are behind the poseball and have to take this form of overreaction to try to solve a legitimate problem that could have been fixed a long time ago. I think some of the things I see in Search are ridiculous as well. While I don't get offended by any of it, i do shake my head, as it isn't necessary.

As much as we like to aspire to it it, humans can't function in a truly free and lawless environment, some people just refuse to play nice with others. SOME guidelines are necessary. And they have been in place a long time, and ignored by both the residents and LL. Such a fuss over a small percentage of content, but I do think that the number will be higher in the end because even though LL is not classifying private residential humping as unclean, the corporates and their lemming customers who will be arriving will, and LL will cave in to their pressure, and rid SL of anything remotely adult, creative or fun and the Mainland will become The Nany State.

I don't want RL companies pushing their crap on me in SL, I have enough in RL. I will not venture into any area they have a presence, nor support their SL plans in any way.

The biggest problem I have with this is that it's trying to protect people (kids) who are actively trying to _not_ be protected. There's a line there somewhere where LL needs to say "not 100% but good enough" and stop worrying about it. Right now, I think they're going a too far, which is causing a fair amount of drama for people who are well over 18 and just trying to do thier thing..

If their goals really are what they've been saying, they're putting far more stress on the system than they need to. Again, I think they're either working it backwards (starting with the answer then coming up with goals to support it) or they're not telling us some big piece of what's driving this.

Count me in. That's two, Lindens. Multiply that by...well, it's going to be more than "two to four percent".

I'm at the $125/mo tier level too, but real soon now I won't be. In June my Premium account comes due, and I will be downgrading to Basic. What I'm saying here, Linden Lab, is this. I AM YOUR INCOME. Me, and thousands like me. I LOVE SL. I'm not leaving over this issue, but I AM withholding all the money I've been sending you. Not only my money, but my time...I was happy to be a Second Life Mentor, and volunteered hundreds of hours of my time to help newcomers and show them the wonders of SL. I've resigned from the Mentors...I no longer want to have my name associated with a company who is so consistently ignorant of their own product and customers.

And I'm not some sex-crazed degenerate, either. Just an average citizen with an open mind and a fondness for meeting unusual people and situations...whether that's a rabbit bounding by on a pogo stick or a half naked slave proudly giving me a tour of his master's four-level castle/dungeon/BDSM club.

You lost a fifth of your world just by taking away the popular OpenSpace sims and turning them into an overpriced, underperforming product. About 5,000 sims vanished from the grid.

This change affects another 4,000 or so sims...the entire mainland...directly. It ALSO affects some large but indeterminate number of private estates. We've heard from some island owners, worried about having to flag mixed content islands or change their builds, right here.

I think you still have no idea of the damage this is going to do to Second Life, and to your own bottom line. You really, really, should start doing some in-depth analysis here.

Maybe Linden Lab is trying to woe Disney as a corporate sponsor. This would explain the Mickey Mouse approach they are taking.

Originally Posted by Blondin Linden
So I was just in-world and I was reading some of those I AM ADULT CONTENT note cards that I have been getting and I decided to join the group. I wanted to see who created it and take a look at the notices. This way I can keep an ear open as to what is being said. I joined the group chat and quickly got an IM from one of the group members asking me to visit his place and tell me whether or not I thought it would be Mature or Adult. I must admit, it was hard to judge at first but we talked about it and I think it was really helpful.

So, with that being said: I was hoping that some of you posters here could send me a SLurl to some of your places so that the team and I can pop around and take a look.

--------------------------

D'oh ! Does Blondin really think that the content of sites remains forever static ? A lot of managers are constantly fiddling around with the design and content. One could potentially have to re-label a site every week !

Not only that, but the content of a site does not always precisely determine the exact roleplay that goes on. What is to stop people engaging in extreme roleplay on a relatively 'mild' sim ? I can recall one such extreme roleplay I myself was involved in...on a site for the Palace Of Versailles...not a bdsm item in sight....yet the roleplay was most definitely very adult and anyone in chat range would have heard so.

These are all factors that LL simply is not taking into account.....and Lindens have an extremely naive and simple vision of something that is actually far more complex.

I would suggest the new continent be called Pandora's Box.......as nothing but trouble and woe will come from going down that road.

Sooo, can i be the first "SL BDSM Mentor" please (BDSM people need help to).

(:

Well i am D/s and I have mentored in SL so does that make me a SL D/s Mentor

I highly encourage all Lindens and all Second Lifers for and against to watch this as these debates continue.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/barry_schwartz_on_our_loss_of_wisdom.html

In RL, I'd agree. But this is SL. Walls do not prevent you from seeing what's on the other side. Conversely, it never rains, so the definition of a "house" is a lot more flexible than in RL. I know a number of people who live in open parks or on sky platforms. Their house is ALL "front lawn".

If you have male/female folders with useful "equipment" for new players, then yes, i'd say you are ^_~

I've wanted to say something about this, but I wanted to crystallize my thoughts into as few words as possible to convey what I believe is the human cost of these proposed changes. I wanted my post to be impactful, and concise enough not to be lost in the storm of replies on this topic.

The thing about behavior in a virtual world is that a very good guide is that if it wouldn't be acceptable in RL, don't do it here. If, in RL, a community in say, the U.S., proposed to identify and forcibly relocate every single person engaging in adult behavior to a walled off section of that community, would such an action be morally defensible? Could the rules about what constitutes adult behavior ever be good enough? Could the rules governing who can and cannot enter such an area ever be good enough? Could the arguments about what such an act would do to local commerce ever be compelling enough? I challenge you to consider that such an action would be inherently wrong.

I was eventually able to whittle the thought down to a single word.

Let me put this word in context. I propose this as a name for the new adult content continent:

Burkha

You mean like the cultures that don't allow women to expose anything more than their eyes, for fear of inciting lust in a man? The ones who don't allow their women to learn to read, or to become teachers or doctors? Those are the people we have to clean the place up for? Or the ones who kill girl children at birth because the parents wanted a son? Or maybe the ones who practice...never mind.

My point isn't that these cultures are wrong. My point is that there is a whole world of differences that you are not seeing because of your own narrow cultural blinders. I see the differences, and appreciate them even when I personally do not approve of them. You would scrub anything you don't like out of existence.

As for meeting people in a brothel, I suggest that it's as good a place as any for getting to know a person. Here's a book for you: "Callahan's Lady", by Spider Robinson. In it, he depicts the World's Best Whorehouse. If you read about Lady Sally's Place and then tell me it's not a place you'd want to visit, you're completely hopeless.

I asked a while back if LL was going to start enforcing Sharia, one of the most-used legal systems in the RL world, but I didn't get an answer..

looking at definitions;
http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php
We all know this one, TOS refers to adult as being 18 plus maybe not specifically but it is there. Read it if you don't believe me one should have already done so by now.

Adult defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adult

1 : fully developed and mature : grown-up
2 : of, relating to, intended for, or befitting adults <an adult approach to a problem>
3 : dealing in or with explicitly sexual material <adult bookstores> <adult movies>

Mature defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adult
1: based on slow careful consideration <a mature judgment>
2 a (1): having completed natural growth and development : ripe (2): having undergone maturation b: having attained a final or desired state <mature wine> c: having achieved a low but stable growth rate <paper is a mature industry> d: of, relating to, or being an older adult : elderly <airline discounts for mature travelers>
3 a: of or relating to a condition of full development b: characteristic of or suitable to a mature individual <mature outlook> <a show with mature content>
4: due for payment <a mature loan>
5: belonging to the middle portion of a cycle of erosion

ok with those definitions in mind, no wonder why LL is having a hard time defining "Adult" they themselves refer to it as anyone over 18 in TOS. As did I when i signed up a year ago as well as adult 3. Then when i got in world i saw PG and Mature. Ok to me PG was a silly rating for an "adult" program. umm after 18 I don't have to ask my parents for permission to do anything. But I assumed that meant no activities that would be generally offensive. Simple manners, always a good philosophy no matter what the situation.

Mature suggested to me in particular part 3b of the above definition, cosidering adult kind of encompassed the other bits, considering one is permitted to more Adult 3 activities in Mature region behind well prims. I know the world is a bizzare place and I know people have a lot of things they like i may not. So i let them live and i go on about my business. Live let live philosophy. Interesting enough Mature the definition Mature 2d suggest seniors, not high school senior as i'm sure many of them would be happy to take on the role again, ahh but then again I hated the general high school mentatlity, but Mature/elderly adults.

Redefining adult, LL is now picking and choosing to change from adult definition 2, to definiton 3 will they also alter the TOS to show this. Words can be confusing, admittedly. But when i personally define a word I find it hard to choose just one of the deffinitions to suit what i want it to mean, it can and should mean the whole gambit.

What i feel is happening is they sold me a toaster oven, and now are handing me a candle and matches. I can still have toast but better not eat to much. The wax will melt and the candle won't be any good.

well said

Just wanted to let everyone know a small thing about the PIOF vs. PIU.

It is not all inclusive as verified. This has been tested many times over and I know Blondin is checking on it for us. But as I was catching up on posts i notice where someone stated that if you ever used a CC on your account that you would be fine, and sadly this is not the case. If you do not have your CC info still activly on the account, weather you use it or not, you currently cannot access verified restricted lands.

Full body nudity: [Adult] [Mature]
needs more detail
Naked in a dance club solo strip I would say [Mature]
Naked in a seat with legs open masterbating giving out sex chat [Adult]

Partial Nudity: [Mature]

Display of nude skins: [Mature]

Cutting off heads in cartoon fashion: [Mature]

Cutting off heads in realistic fashion: [Adult]

Brief sexual scenes: [Adult] [Mature]
needs more detail
5 second RL clip of girl being spitroasted is still a brief sexual scene [Adult]
Film of RL couple about to have sex showing nudity any action only implied [Mature]
Animation of sex scene in public for public use not sales ie. sex club [Adult]
Animation of sex scene accessible to public with warning for sales only [Mature]

Detailed text based roleplayer of sexual scenes in public: [Adult] [Mature]
needs more detail
In controlled public access role play area with only fully aware RPer's [Mature]
In non controlled area with no warning [Adult]

Silent sexual scenes of sex animations (no text roleplay, or only done in IM's) [Mature]

Soft Vore: [Mature]

Hard Vore: [Adult]

Death: [Adult]
Are we talking rl pictures of death here?

Cartoon Death: [Adult]
Not sure was tending to mature but maybe something I didnt anticipate.

Flirting: [Mature]

Strip dancing: [Mature]

Clothed bodies rubbing against each other: [Mature]


I would also class as Adult

rl videos of severe beatings, such as happy slapping videos.
don't know if these are around in SL but make stuff like this adult before it arrives anyway.

Survey said! Physical affection with non-humans is adult.

Sorry folks the entire universe of what is rated what and what age groups are allowed to see what content has been hashed out by the motion picture industry, in concert with the government, so there will not be lawsuits. Exceed these ratings and you can expect lawsuits. This is the USA. The law of the Quoran or Bible has no place here whatsoever nor do people that think they have more rights than others.

Here are the rules that Linden Lab has little choice but to adopt just like the video game entertainment industry they are a part of whether they like it or not:

http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp

If Linden Lab does not want to be part of the video game entertainment industry then they have a couple of choices. They can sell Second Life to someone that wants to be in the video game entertainment business or they can close Second Life. The third choice is for Linden Lab to hire leadership that is experienced in the entertainment business and conduct it's business accordingly. They can always spin off a little meeting room affiliate to run a sanitized no user created content meeting room business. Someone might actually want to rent it for $5 one day for an hour.