Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread
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Blah Allen
Registered User
Join date: 6 Apr 2007
Posts: 24
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03-27-2009 05:16
I think this is like putting a pre school next to a Dildo factory and building a wall between them.Sooner or later some one will walk around with a dildo on their head around children..
The facts are this,If you put in your sign up page that SL host animal sex toys,rape,fetish sex play,but only in the "Adult" section, and these people that take part of this can go between the all ages and Adult section most moms and dads would never let their children in here. This is wrong on so many levels.It is not the content, I took a full perm penis script and made it into a talking maternity tummy... I took a full perm sex bed and with a lil time and new animations I now have a cool sandbox friends can play in. It is not the content,it is the people you need to filter.Adding teens is silly and it opens the door to some really creepy people interacting with teens,not good!! Teens are mature yes I agree. Teens are also easy to manipulate,they craving to be treated like a adult. I think this should go the other way,leave it the way it is,post a list of the products that are sold in SL for families to see what is offer here and used in all parts,and let them know the facts of you really not being able to control what gose on in SL every sec or even every day.lets face it there is alot of bad things LL can not stop and even when they do ,it is a lil to late Then let them choose to let their children in here. Or make the age thing in the all ages grid!! any one can play like always,but if you want to visit the grid that has all ages the you must verify,really makes more sence.
I think you Do a fine job with what you have to work with LL,I just do not see you being able to stop the wrong interaction of children and adults in a highly sexual online play ground.
I also remember reading the opening blog post with the man stating "I wear both hats here" Sir you do not,you wear 1 and it is own by Linden Labs,in every company there is the buy in of company goals and direction.that is part of being in your position and I bet stated in you contract.Please teat us with a lil respect and do not sugar coat this.....
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-27-2009 05:16
From: Couldbe Yue and a monorail?? It's a euphemism. "You can ride MY monorail any time, baybeh..."
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Joyce Trafalgar
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 10
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You got the chance to do it better!
03-27-2009 05:17
Restrict access for unverified accounts to PG rated regions. Let verified account holders choose by their own! This would be a real improvement of the users experience instead of a bunch of restrictons some purists and moralists want to see. Dont mix up age verification with content access control.
The idea of separating Adult content and activities from the rest of the world and limit access to those who have had their accounts verified sucks!
To protect people from seeing content they dont want to see we need something better. We are all mature enough to decide ourselves what we want to see and what we dont want to see.
If this is the primary goal, then please combine content classification with the tools and options that let me set my preferences through my account. It's most simple and efficient. Anybody can decide by their own.
In order to improve the user experience this could also be implemented into the search engine to provde users better control over content returned in the search.
In any case, make the system granular enough to protect myself against legal issues. For eksample is the Swiss law much more restrictive regarding violent content and activity than the German law. As such a resident in Switzerland needs an option to protect himself from entering places related to illegal violent actions and content showing violence. In any case it should be the users responsability to decide and not someone elses!
In my opinion, the purpose of age verification is to protect our kids. As such the current implementation sucks! As long as providing moms driver licence for verification is enough, the system fails its purpose. There have been far better systems in place. Ask the people from the German BDSM Island sim, they did a good job.
However, we all agree that SecondLife ist for 18+, so please use age verfication for this purpose and nothing else. Use age verification only to restrict access to the SecondLife main grid at all or limit non-verified accounts to regions with PG rated content.
Adult content control and age verification has been around and discussed for a while. The implementation failed! You got now the chance to make it better! Dont miss the opportunity und do it right!
NB: as a former sim manager I have some additional ideas regarding details of the topic, like vertical control, skybox protection, etc. but I dont want to risk the basic idea of what I said above gets lost.
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Deangelo Urqhart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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03-27-2009 05:17
From: Argent Stonecutter Already against the ToS, anyway, if their business is on PG land.  Then why the change? Why not enforce the current terms rather than making new ones?
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janeforyou Barbara
Registered User
Join date: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 31
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Thanks!
03-27-2009 05:19
From: Grady Vuckovic Thankyou! I wondered if anyone saw it, glad it made someone's day.
What Jack has said is nothing like what we heard earlier, before we were told straight from Linden's that strip clubs would be kicked out. Now it's just cutting off heads and gore? Which is it? Can we *PLEASE* have definitive answers on these things! The whole damn issue is doing my head in. If we all knew *exactly* what their proposal is, then we could at least have a quality discussion, right now all we can do is wait, worry and wonder.
Write up a brief, and put it on the site. Just try it! Doesn't have to be perfect, just say, "This is what we have in mind right now, this is all which we could agree on: 1. Realistic depiction of removing body parts ... 2... " etc.
Better yet! Here's an idea!
Setup a page with a very long list of everything that is questionable, and have a "Adult" or "Mature" option next to it, for people to vote. Your a company full of programmers, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make a page with a few polls on it. So then you could have say:
Full body nudity: [Adult] [Mature] Partial Nudity: [Adult] [Mature] Display of nude skins: [Adult] [Mature] Cutting off heads in cartoon fashion: [Adult] [Mature] Cutting off heads in realistic fashion: [Adult] [Mature] Brief sexual scenes: [Adult] [Mature] Detailed text based roleplayer of sexual scenes in public: [Adult] [Mature] Silent sexual scenes of sex animations (no text roleplay, or only done in IM's): [Adult] [Mature] Soft Vore: [Adult] [Mature] Hard Vore: [Adult] [Mature] Death: [Adult] [Mature] Cartoon Death: [Adult] [Mature] Flirting: [Adult] [Mature] Strip dancing: [Adult] [Mature] Clothed bodies rubbing against each other: [Adult] [Mature]
...And etc etc etc etc!!
If you wanted to take it one step further, you could allow your users like us to put up these potential adult vs mature issues, to be voted on and then let the poll run it's ofcourse. At the end of the poll or after a certain amount of time, then the results could be used to determine if the act should be considered adult or mature.
If you want our input in nutting our the details in this, lets do it! Because clearly you want to do it anyway, we don't have a choice in that, so lets work together to figure out what should be adult and what should be mature. It would be a nice automated way that the community could come together and vote on this all together.
Hell, we could use the forum as a basis for it, it's possible to post polls on these forums right? Could make a section of the forum, "Adult or Mature? Post your issue", and let people post issues, and then have them voted on by Lindens and the Residents to decide.
Lets PLEASE just work out the details before we go any further in moving a still unknown amount of users by force! D:
Hell, I'll start with my votes on the issues above:
Full body nudity: [Mature] Partial Nudity: [Mature] Display of nude skins: [Mature] Cutting off heads in cartoon fashion: [Mature] Cutting off heads in realistic fashion: [Adult] (Unless done in text based RPing, then really unless your reading the RP and picturing it in your mind, it's not so bad and should be considered cartoonish) Brief sexual scenes: [Mature] Detailed text based roleplayer of sexual scenes in public: [Mature] Silent sexual scenes of sex animations (no text roleplay, or only done in IM's): [Mature] Soft Vore: [Mature] Hard Vore: [Adult] (Yea alright, even catching a wiff of this if done very visually and with detailed text descriptions can be very painful..) Death: [Adult] (Looking at a bloody and abused dead body that's been tortured to death is very possible and I saw it the other day in my club. It didn't bother me that much, but for something to steer me even a little bit means it must be pretty bad) Cartoon Death: [Mature] Flirting: [Mature] Strip dancing: [Mature] Clothed bodies rubbing against each other: [Mature]
Your turn! Go ahead, try it! Lets see if we can agree on something to hand LL for them to use in making decisions on what counts and what doesn't. Lets just work out WHO is going to have to move at least! Even if we can't stop this nonsense. Wow ok thanks for the list,, good post  But there are more? I know there are sevral sexual types of fetish like -Scat er, shit? lovers -Animal/bestiallety -Latex lovers like "latexdolls" This ppl moves round in diff places and i bet this are under" adult" ? I wonder how the heck a Estate oener can contrill this? Its not possible i think.
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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03-27-2009 05:20
Does anyone have any links to some very simple poll scripts I could use? I do web design (but I feel very lazy right now), but if I could pull something together quickly I could make up a nice page with 'submit your issue' and then have it available for people to vote on. If LL is too lazy to make it then we could make it and show them what we think is adult and what's mature. Then just have LL agree or disagree on each issue.
Or hell, lets just compile a list of issues and say, "This is what we want to know about, please LL, answer each one of these and that will be a start for us".
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-27-2009 05:21
From: Deangelo Urqhart If that is the case why are Linden Labs attempting to annoy it's major source of income? 
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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03-27-2009 05:21
From: Riku Ashdene I'm Sorry LL, But you have really screwed up with this one... 1) In different countries, there are different laws for "Viewing Adult Content". How are you going to tell a 17 year old from a "16+" permitted country, that they are no longer allowed to access the club they might own?
2) SL is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our RL.. Where we can relax and do all the things we cannot do in RL. Why on earth would you create an online game for that reason, and then take it away from MOST of your players?
3) I will admit to this, and probably have my account closed for it... I am one year Below 18. I have been on this game for many months.. and I think it is the best thing to happen to the internet. I dont use it for its "Mature Content".. I use it to meet up with FRIENDS I have on here.. Some of which will now be hanging out in the "Mature" section, which I will not be allowed to access. Which means... I am to be cut off from the people who mean alot to me. Also.. I have my PARENT CONSENT to be on here. They check up on me, and watch me like any other parent would. And they have no problem with it. I think you should also have a verification system, where PARENTS can give their opinion on whether or not their child should be allowed access to the "Mature Content". My main Hangout is a Final Fantasy Sim... Midgar. It is "no sex allowed" and the people on there are very serious about their Roleplaying. But because it has combat or "Violence", It is likely to be moved aswell.
I'm sorry to all the adults out there who have come together against an online game, rather than worrying about their children's real life issues... Because it can all do more harm in the real world than here.
LL, Thanks for the fun and all the friends you have bought to me over the past year.. And thanks also for tearing them away. The problem is that LL says that SL is for 18 years and over and with you being under 18 you are not allowed to access the main grid. So you cannot blame LL for tearing friends away from you when they move you back to the Teen Grid. You broke LL rules and only have yourself to blame in that matter. Good luck with the teen grid though.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-27-2009 05:22
From: Grady Vuckovic Does anyone have any links to some very simple poll scripts I could use? http://www.google.com/search?q=free%20poll
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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03-27-2009 05:25
From: Argent Stonecutter http://www.google.com/search?q=free%20poll *facepalms* Yea should of googled.. I didn't think there would be so many simple free options though. o.o! OK, I found a good site, "http://www.micropoll.com/" Making a poll is very simple it seems, so what should be the first issues we vote on? What's the one thing everyone wants to vote on for what's adult and what's not? Public sex? Nudity? Strip dancing?
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-27-2009 05:25
From: Deangelo Urqhart Then why the change? Why not enforce the current terms rather than making new ones? 
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Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
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03-27-2009 05:25
From: Deangelo Urqhart What happens if i am in my private home on the non mature sim and decide to take 2 or 3 people home for some sexual activity? If by non mature you mean PG that is already against the rules.
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Elysia Pau
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2008
Posts: 8
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03-27-2009 05:27
From: Deangelo Urqhart If that is the case why are Linden Labs attempting to annoy it's major source of income? Maybe because they think, companies ran away because of the adult content? Maybe they still didn't realize, that the technical difficulties and the graphics that are on a state of the last century, the very limitations of people who can visit a place at the same time and so on made the concept of "billions of customers online" (quote: Phil Linden) totally fail. If I hadn't have my MMORP surrounding, I would not use SL anymore and every landowner I know in SL after being online two years would be elsewhere too, and I know no one in my friendslist who would stay in SL without the mature places. I stumbled into SL by accident, and after some weeks of odyssey on Mainland, I got bored about it. If I hadn't found the mature MMORP places by accident because it was free and without age verification, I had have uninstalled SL two years ago already. Newcomers who want to sign in will experience exactly that: They will stumble around with their newbie-stock-avatars some time in a cheap disneyland, would never find a good looking skin or even clothings because all the shops are moved to a closed adult part (nude skins are offensive!). When they try to get there, SL will ask them for their CC or ID, names and so on and will send that to a third company, they will be like "what the..." and leave again. Face it, with out adult content SL would be dead.
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Deangelo Urqhart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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03-27-2009 05:34
No they are not. I would really like answers to them.
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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03-27-2009 05:35
http://www.mindinsomnia.com/AdultContentPolls.htmHow about something like that? Sorry if it's not the prettiest webpage ever, but for the point of an example, would that work?
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Windsweptgold Wopat
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2007
Posts: 1,003
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03-27-2009 05:35
From: Riku Ashdene I'm Sorry LL, But you have really screwed up with this one... 1) In different countries, there are different laws for "Viewing Adult Content". How are you going to tell a 17 year old from a "16+" permitted country, that they are no longer allowed to access the club they might own?
2) SL is supposed to be an ESCAPE from our RL.. Where we can relax and do all the things we cannot do in RL. Why on earth would you create an online game for that reason, and then take it away from MOST of your players?
3) I will admit to this, and probably have my account closed for it... I am one year Below 18. I have been on this game for many months.. and I think it is the best thing to happen to the internet. I dont use it for its "Mature Content".. I use it to meet up with FRIENDS I have on here.. Some of which will now be hanging out in the "Mature" section, which I will not be allowed to access. Which means... I am to be cut off from the people who mean alot to me. Also.. I have my PARENT CONSENT to be on here. They check up on me, and watch me like any other parent would. And they have no problem with it. I think you should also have a verification system, where PARENTS can give their opinion on whether or not their child should be allowed access to the "Mature Content". My main Hangout is a Final Fantasy Sim... Midgar. It is "no sex allowed" and the people on there are very serious about their Roleplaying. But because it has combat or "Violence", It is likely to be moved aswell.
I'm sorry to all the adults out there who have come together against an online game, rather than worrying about their children's real life issues... Because it can all do more harm in the real world than here.
LL, Thanks for the fun and all the friends you have bought to me over the past year.. And thanks also for tearing them away. MM you are breaking the TOS with your parents permission and just look at the groups you belong to Luna Bar Dance and Strip Club Dance, Strip, Club, fun, topless, nude, hot & sexy girls. ZZ Club Stripes, ZZ Studios, Furry Porn Studio, Club Stripes and Yiff House. Gay / straight / bi/ lesbian. Group rooms, pool, beach, sex parties, dancing, dj's, porn theater, movies, videos, dungeon, neko club, tail sale freebies shopping, hotub, skydivin. The White Wolf, Wild... Uncensored... the hottest furry nightclub that challenges all others! The Wildest Party to ever hit Second Life has been unleashed. Do you dare to enter? Hawks Hideaway,Finest Ladies Only Club in Secondlife. Providing sensual , erotic entertainment to the ladies of secondlife. So we should let teens in ? hell NO seems some parents cant be trusted so I believe no one under 18 go to the teen grid that is what it is for and i can assume your "partner" is also under age umm has your partners parents allowed them to be in SL? do they watch them ? Seeing the groups you belong to I would have to wonder how well they are watching you. Sl should remove you and assuming your parents are on ere them also for breaching the TOS which you agreed to therfore you have broken a contract. For a kid, and yes that is what you are, for you to make a comment "I'm sorry to all the adults out there who have come together against an online game, rather than worrying about their children's real life issues... Because it can all do more harm in the real world than here. " Im not against this OL"game" I do worry about my childrens RL issues and I would also be worried if i was teaching my children to breech rules and sign up to a program (contract) that was not suitable. Now a lesson for you when you put something on the net its there for good, you may have changed your original post ( guess mummy and daddy were not watching when you posted it and dobbing yourself in)but atleast 2 of us quoted you before you had the chance so you have nailed your own coffin .. enjoy teen grid
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Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
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03-27-2009 05:40
From: Grady Vuckovic OK, I found a good site, "http://www.micropoll.com/" Making a poll is very simple it seems, so what should be the first issues we vote on? What's the one thing everyone wants to vote on for what's adult and what's not? Public sex? Nudity? Strip dancing?
Maybe we should have an online poll to see what will be in the next online poll? 
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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03-27-2009 05:42
Maybe, but that wouldn't be able to be answered with a 'Yes' or 'No'... although it is a good idea. Hey! Maybe we should put it to a poll about if we should poll about what should be the next poll?
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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03-27-2009 05:48
All I'm saying is that LL wants to hear what we have to say about what should be adult and what should be mature. They have repeatedly told us directly and indirectly they don't give a rats@zz about what we think about if they should actually do this or not. They believe this is the right thing to do so they are doing to do it. Only thing we can give input on is what is adult and what is mature. We can only give suggestions ofcourse, they have the final say, but maybe if they see a poll saying something like:
Public Strip Dancing: Adult: 10% Mature: 90% Votes: 1500
They may take that into consideration? Maybe? Can't hurt at least.
Edit: By the way, the page I setup is just an example of what LL can do. If I could setup a page with 3 polls on it in just 5-10mins for free with no problem I'm sure they could at least work that out.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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03-27-2009 05:55
From: Elysia Pau Face it, with out adult content SL would be dead. Only for sufficiently lax definitions of "adult". I mean, if the definition is sufficiently narrow (only beheadings with extra-crunchy sound effects), then nobody will much care. So at the moment, the strategy is to make "adult" as universally offensive as possible, so the policy won't be too disruptive (read: won't cause a mass exodus). Of course this definition can never satisfy the constituents (whoever they are) who wanted the policy in the first place. They want all sub-Adult territory safe for work, PTA meetings, and Little Johnnie. That means anything remotely suggestive must be included in the definition of "adult". LL can in good faith start with the former, narrow definition of Adult, and be driven to the latter, without having that part of the initial plan. Indeed, I see no way that drift can be avoided unless LL eventually throws that constituency over the rail. The fact is, there's no money to be made by expanding that group--not because SL is all porn all the time, but because they just don't cover the cost of generating the revenue they produce. What business customers exist are won at enormous marketing expense, and educationals and non-profits enjoy deep discounts, well below fully-loaded cost recovery. In essence, everybody else's tier is subsidizing them. If I were CFO of a company that's bound and determined to expand its least profitable market by risking its sole source of positive cash flow, I believe I'd find other employment.
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janeforyou Barbara
Registered User
Join date: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 31
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03-27-2009 05:56
From: Grady Vuckovic All I'm saying is that LL wants to hear what we have to say about what should be adult and what should be mature. They have repeatedly told us directly and indirectly they don't give a rats@zz about what we think about if they should actually do this or not. They believe this is the right thing to do so they are doing to do it. Only thing we can give input on is what is adult and what is mature. We can only give suggestions ofcourse, they have the final say, but maybe if they see a poll saying something like:
Public Strip Dancing: Adult: 10% Mature: 90% Votes: 1500
They may take that into consideration? Maybe? Can't hurt at least.
Edit: By the way, the page I setup is just an example of what LL can do. If I could setup a page with 3 polls on it in just 5-10mins for free with no problem I'm sure they could at least work that out. Nice  But LL wil not do as we vote... cuz 90% of us wil vote mature and then its no use to change any i guess?
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Tobler Ballinger
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 14
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03-27-2009 06:04
Ok I'm a little late to the foray but I wanted to make my opinions known.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the main grid adult only already? Why do we have to separate adult content from an adult audience? If people are under age and are logging on to the main grid then they're in violation of the ToS. Where's the enforcement? I have no problem with age verification and in fact I support it. LL had the forethought to build two grids to separate inappropriate content from underage players. If they're underage then they shouldn't be allowed on the main grid PERIOD!!! Hell you can even make it a feature of the SL Viewer. If a persons logs on who (after age verification) is underage then they are logged into the teen grid. If they are over 18 then they are given a choice. Can people cheat the system? Probably but I guarantee it happens everyday and everywhere on the net and in RL. Hell, watching a news broadcast these days is worse than most of the content on SL.
I personally think increasing the restrictions on the grid will do more harm than good. Making people jump through too many hoops to enjoy themselves is going to drive people elsewhere and SL suffer.
I say leave the grid alone and put the efforts into enforcing the EXISTING ToS.
That's my $.02
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Puppet Shepherd
New Year, New Tricks
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 725
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Please, calm down for a moment. I offer dog kisses.
03-27-2009 06:06
Quite honestly, many of the folks posting in this thread are overreacting. They are assuming things are going to happen that in all likelihood are not. LL has repeatedly said this will not apply to private residences, and nudity in a public space is not enough to earn bannination to adults-only land.
However, I can see where those of you who are doing the overreacting are coming from. LL apparently has only one person actively keeping up with this thread, and one person is not enough to keep up with it. Secondly, the lack of development of clear definitions encourages paranoid minds to run wild. Third, the presence of one troll in this thread who is allowed to continue to post multiple inflammatory messages is getting a lot of people's hackles up.
In the end, when this takes place, I am sure this will have a big impact on Second Life as we know it. However, it probably will not be an apocalypse. The company surely does not want to sink the whole ship.
I offer dog kisses to all who need soothing (strictly PG, of course), and encourage LL to please send some more people in to work with the residents on this problem, and stop the rumor-mongering before it unnecessarily scares residents away forever.
Now, I'm off to earn a good day's pay. I hope you all have a peaceful and productive Friday.
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Grady Vuckovic
Not happy with LL
Join date: 1 Apr 2008
Posts: 145
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03-27-2009 06:07
From: janeforyou Barbara Nice  But LL wil not do as we vote... cuz 90% of us wil vote mature and then its no use to change any i guess? Alright fine, even if they don't ask what we want, they could still start listing specific examples and letting us know what they have in mind for being adult and mature. Just make a simple start, list the possible variations of being naked in public and which ones of them are considered adult. Then move onto sex and voilence, and the other issues. They don't need to listen to what we want if they don't want to, but they could let us suggest specific cases and let them answer them each. Because they will have to do so anyway when they bring in these changes, because they will need a specific list of what's adult and what's not in order to know who to kick out of mainland. And really if they don't tell us what's against the rules, how can we get introuble for breaking them? If a club is going to have to move they need to know now, so they don't start building major extensions to their club and instead can start working at packing things up and taking copies of the buildings. A simple page from LL like this: From: someone **WARNING, SUBJECT TO CHANGE STILL, THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR* Specific Examples of Adult Content:
1. Cutting off a persons head with visual or/and audio or/and text based roleplay with realistic detail
2. Public displays of pornography in visual or/and audio or/and text forms, with pornography defined as depictions of sex for only the purpose of sexual arousal
Specific Examples of what is NOT Adult content:
1. Being naked, for any species at any location which is rated Mature, if it is permitted by the land owners.
2. Erotic art
3. Erotic dancing
4. Private roleplay of sexual scenes between 1 or more people, not intended for outsiders to see. Would be really helpful!
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Tobler Ballinger
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 14
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03-27-2009 06:14
From: Puppet Shepherd Quite honestly, many of the folks posting in this thread are overreacting. They are assuming things are going to happen that in all likelihood are not. LL has repeatedly said this will not apply to private residences, and nudity in a public space is not enough to earn bannination to adults-only land.
To me, the fact that this issue even exists is ludicrous especially when you consider that the main grid is ALREADY and adult area.
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