Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Lindens don't want ideas on keeping these clubs on mature lands. Its about the money they will be making for opening up this Adult area. It's a given force and will happen. Its all about the millions they will make by doing this. Nothing we can say or do will change what linden labs wants. Not unless you got a few billion dollars to toss at them to keep mature land as it is. I know I don't.

If this was about what the majority wanted then LL would be listening to us. It isn't. It's what they want and that's more money. Otherwise none of this makes sense because there are a lot of ways to handle their "reasons" why it needs to change.

They will be making a lot of money. My only worry is how the hell is two clubs going to make it on one sims. Since now there isn't going to be parcels of homes or gardens etc to divide it up..clubs and violence all over. Clubs are history!!

This is a big concern of mine as well. I have no confidence that this will all of a sudden be working properly when they institute their new plans, given their track record for fixing other known issues. Try JIRA and see how long it would take to get that fixed, or try contacting support. Just another reason why people would get fed up and leave SL altogether. How does this known issue make SL predictable?

I can define the difference between what I percieve to be erotic art and porn, as can you, our definitions will most likely not be the same though.

That doesn't matter to LL though because we will all be expected to abide by their definition, once they have settled on one, whether it agrees with our own or not.

So why not put forward your own opinions examples reasons as some have?
In the hope of getting a reasonably liberal LL definition.

If you don't you could end up with something closer to Nany's definition!

Trouble is as always happens in these issues, Mob mentallity starts to prevail before firm details are released and people know what is exactly happening. While the rumour mongers have a field day with mis-information

I can't remember the last time when I was on Mainland. Why? Because there is nothing that interests me. But what I remember about Mainland is places covered with ugly ads buy this and that here and there. It were not the adult parts that were annoying, since they often hide behind walls, buildings or castles or even in skyboxes, but loads of ads about other crap what did everything to be noticed always and everywhere in viewrange.
Still I am online in SL almost every day, since I am a MMORP player. I jump from private sim to private sim that are connected in roleplays. I have my own home at a private sim and I do scripting and building for the game there what costs me most time.
Each of these sims has an entrance zone where they clarify about the adult nature of that land. They warn you and you are to decide if you want that or not. You won't just run into some situation that you didnt expect if you read these warnings. In search, these places do not appear when you do not include adult content in your search.
Hence I do not get the need for age verification on private sims. Ain't we all mature enough to decide for ourself what we want to see and what not? I have nothing against purists, religious or not, if they would stick with themself. But why in world do these guys always have to try to put us, the mature players, under their control? We need no selfproclaimed mamas and pappas that force us under their healthcare! Get an own life you can care for, damned!

[12:35] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. it's a city area, with normal continent around it
[12:35] Jack Linden: Not a giant city
[12:35] Jack Linden: It's slightly futuristic, with mono-rails and stuff

/me sighs heavily

doesn't ll know that the majority of people appear to want to live in castles, manor houses and the like?

It will be very hard for kinkiville to be sleazy if everything is glossy and new.

and a monorail??

There goes 'bilingual' and, well, most of the music that is out there that has lyrics. DJ music is no worse content than what kids have access to on iTunes/the radio/mtv/etc anyways.

You are talking about people who will never understand SL. These are the same people who come into SL and say... "How do I level?" They don't understand it is a very social driven tool. These are the same people who are on gaming websites posting... SL is boring... and it is just about sex. They are so very wrong. The current residents know this, and understand this. That is why, in my opinion, SL should never be rated on Gaming Websites. It is so much more than that. Even when I first started SL, I wondered how I could level up. I suspect many people thought that. You are talking about a large population who have come from different MMO's, many of those designed around a game with a specific outcome. They are trying to play the game of SL, and apply their basic gaming knowledge to a platform that has a steep learning curve. Hence, they find it boring, and it is easy to say the one exciting moment was a random floppy dong attack in a newbie welcome area because that was their only experience of simulated combat within SL.

Nice ultimatum. Fortunately for us, you are not qualified to make that determination.

I have read extensive parts of this thread but really can't go through the entire thing to check this hasn't already been asked and answered elsewhere...

Q: If, as Blue Linden has stated, this is *not* the precursor to a grid merge and kids are not going to be allowed onto any part of the Main Grid, then exactly *why* is it suddenly necessary for any of us to be "age verified" before having access onto a new Adult continent? Those on the Mature and PG areas will also all be grown-ups anyway.

Furthermore, put me down as another who feels it doesn't make any sense to force so many people and their builds to uproot and move, lock stock and cuddlerugs, to a new continent. Not from their POV, nor from LL's administrative POV.

It would be so much more sensible to get those delicately minded few who are so easily offended to rate themselves PG and ask for a move to a new squeaky clean PG continent where a set of No Sex Please We're Prudish rules can apply at the outset. I just don't get why LL are making this so difficult when they could achieve what they obviously intend to do much more simply.

Or is that what IS intended and they're just hoping to make everyone so angry at the initial proposals that a "change of heart" to do it the sensible way round will seem like a customer friendly compromise?!

BTW the labelling of these different ratings/areas is also ridiculous. I think it will be confusing for new people, plus outsiders reading about the differences on blogs or in the press. A grown-up over 18 *is* an adult but not necessarily mature - it's the wrong way round.

--
Aes

I wonder,, how wil chat be censored? How wil music be censored?
How wil avatares be censored? How wil profile picktures be censored?

There are tousens of animations and gestiurs used all over all the time, there are tousens of animationsball with cuddles and sex in tousens of places, i got no idea how i as a estateowner in sevral Island/regions can controll this, i wil need a army.

Also, if i set my land to "adult" ( its now mature and still no option to set adult) and set all my regions to " acsess only members with pay on file" i wil loose a lot of members and costumers and also a lot of my staff, i got no problem removing items that LL say are "adult" but i still got no idea on how to separate a adult item from a mature item as i dont understand what Linden Lab consdider as adult? Its all wery confusing, i need a list of items that are considerd by Linden Lab as adult.

AHH so one can put 2 and 2 together here and deduce that you are here for sex Nany.

Going back over some of your past comments I would be very interested to know the ages of your children since you seem to want to have them in a virtual world with you ( still think getting off your arse and being with them is a better idea) I, as i have already said have 3 children 2 are teens. Both have seen SL my 17 yr old when she was talking to me and i was in SL, she liked the outfits i was trying on, my 16 yr old has also seen SL when Iwas havign issues getting something to work , he is my comp geek and he came into my study and helped me. Now what did my kids see... my home with some naked pics about. Before you have a heart attack Nany and call child services one was Resting Venus by Palma il Vecchio and the other Women playing Music Jacopo Tintoretto (1518-1594). Are these porn cause if they are then best close down Dresden Gallery as it is full of naked men and women.

What i do find funny Nany is if SL is just one big brothel then why are you here? Are you related to Mary Whitehouse by any chance ?

Let's think about this for a moment. Who has the most disposable income of any demigraphic. Teenagers.

Who has the money to buy sims and run them? Corperations.

Are teenagers allowed to do all the sex stuff? No

Do the corperations want adult content in their meetings? No

If all the adult content is going to be put together. Are we going to get assurances from Linden labs that the area will not crash down on itself when everyone plays at the weekend?

Lets face it they can't even keep the entire of SL running smoothly over the weekend with everyone spread about.

I would love to hear a reply for Linden Labs on this.

What happens if i am in my private home on the non mature sim and decide to take 2 or 3 people home for some sexual activity?

Does the inclustion of more than 2 people make it a public event and as such i will have to move to a more mature area?

If this is the case are not Linden Labs discriminating against me because of my sexuality even though i practice it in private with consenting adults?

Certainly false. Private people, that play games are these that buy sims. Because for games you need best performance. And that you can not get on a mainland server next to a shoppingmall or club. If you want to make a game place, you buy your own sim.
Look at the private sims, that are always filled with traffic. Are that corperation sims? No. It are the RPG places that fill the private continuum, that buy accessories, making the malls run what supports the sims in surviving. Sims of corperations are empty most of the time, SL-advertizing failed, after the hype companies focus on classical advertizing again. Obviously its the mature content what keeps SL and LL living.

Because she's getting a "non-profit" free ride as a professional "protected class".

I'm starting to think LL sees its future profit in corporate meetings and Federal grant money...which they think won't pass Congressional muster if they don't keep anything that might be mistaken for Robert Maplethorpe under lock and key.

The irony here is that what built SL to what it is today looks a lot more like Maplethorpe than it does like CNN and Reuters And Sun Micro and, yes, IBM's corporate ghost towns.

I refer LL to proverbs relating the relative values of birds in hand vs. birds in bush. This applies to business models as well. People who still remember Don Lancaster's writing can refer to the concept of "j dollars".

"No one expects the spanish inquisition!"

OMG you cant be serious ?????? Then scrap that idea umm how about carrier pidgins

It wouldn't. What people are telling you is that "removing the adult content from the mature mainland" is an impossible and ill-advised plan. They are saying that it will cause SL uses, and linden labs untold amounts of income loss and logistical headaches. They are saying, in short, that it is a Bad Idea(tm).

The best idea I have seen so far is to create a new pg only "staging continent" for corporate, publicity, and new user use, and have this be the place where the easily offended can go when their eyes hurt.

Of course, that's not going to *stop* anyone on this new continent from getting offended at something they see, or a corporation from seeing something that will cause it to second-guess having an in-world presence. Griefers will still bump people with their freebie parts, spam the chat window with profanity, and cause trouble for everyone, and I can practically guarantee you that there will be a *great* many people who will have free, unverified accounts, who will use them to spam porn all over the place, whether you have a new continent or not. AR'ing them won't help- they'll be alts, or even Bots, or simply people who don't care.
What we are trying to tell you is that you are trying to stop the tide with a sieve. We're telling you that unless you put down the sieve, and pick up a bucket, you won't even be able to *affect* the tide, let alone stop it.

What SL needs apparently, according to LL, is a better class of user, that isn't silly, graphic, or desirous- but is still creative enough to pretty up the grid, while mindlessly buying lindens, virtual "land", and any products that a corporate client wants to advertise in-world.

No others Need apply to join the "discussion"

And still no definitions of who needs to move, when they'll need to do it, *how* it will happen, or *why* it will happen. And still adherence to a "2%-4%" mantra which is on the very face of it ridiculous-


Quick question- If only 2%-4% of content would need to be moved, then it should follow that residents would only be offended 2%-4% of the time.

Since when have Linden Labs ever acted on an issue with that low a priority?

V

por·nog·ra·phy
n.

1. Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
2. The presentation or production of this material.
3. Lurid or sensational material: "Recent novels about the Holocaust have kept Hitler well offstage [so as] to avoid the ... pornography of the era" (Morris Dickstein).

lurid

1. gruesome; horrible; revolting: the lurid details of an accident.
2. glaringly vivid or sensational; shocking: the lurid tales of pulp magazines.
3. terrible in intensity, fierce passion, or unrestraint: lurid crimes.
4. lighted or shining with an unnatural, fiery glow; wildly or garishly red: a lurid sunset.
5. wan, pallid, or ghastly in hue; livid.

sensational
–adjective
1. producing or designed to produce a startling effect, strong reaction, intense interest, etc., esp. by exaggerated, superficial, or lurid elements: a sensational novel.
2. extraordinarily good; conspicuously excellent; phenomenal: a sensational quarterback.
3. of or pertaining to the senses or sensation.


Isn't any well written point of view or piece of artwork unrestrained and promoting a strong reaction? There for if could be considered pornographic. I mean things from 'The origin of the species' to any religeous text. Linden Labs is going to have to be very careful with it's definitions. I do not mean to start a flame war with these comments. I am just trying to point out the minefield that is going to happen if this is not well thought out.

Thankyou! I wondered if anyone saw it, glad it made someone's day.

What Jack has said is nothing like what we heard earlier, before we were told straight from Linden's that strip clubs would be kicked out. Now it's just cutting off heads and gore? Which is it? Can we *PLEASE* have definitive answers on these things! The whole damn issue is doing my head in. If we all knew *exactly* what their proposal is, then we could at least have a quality discussion, right now all we can do is wait, worry and wonder.

Write up a brief, and put it on the site. Just try it! Doesn't have to be perfect, just say, "This is what we have in mind right now, this is all which we could agree on: 1. Realistic depiction of removing body parts ... 2... " etc.

Better yet! Here's an idea!

Setup a page with a very long list of everything that is questionable, and have a "Adult" or "Mature" option next to it, for people to vote. Your a company full of programmers, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make a page with a few polls on it. So then you could have say:

Full body nudity: [Adult] [Mature]
Partial Nudity: [Adult] [Mature]
Display of nude skins: [Adult] [Mature]
Cutting off heads in cartoon fashion: [Adult] [Mature]
Cutting off heads in realistic fashion: [Adult] [Mature]
Brief sexual scenes: [Adult] [Mature]
Detailed text based roleplayer of sexual scenes in public: [Adult] [Mature]
Silent sexual scenes of sex animations (no text roleplay, or only done in IM's): [Adult] [Mature]
Soft Vore: [Adult] [Mature]
Hard Vore: [Adult] [Mature]
Death: [Adult] [Mature]
Cartoon Death: [Adult] [Mature]
Flirting: [Adult] [Mature]
Strip dancing: [Adult] [Mature]
Clothed bodies rubbing against each other: [Adult] [Mature]


...And etc etc etc etc!!

If you wanted to take it one step further, you could allow your users like us to put up these potential adult vs mature issues, to be voted on and then let the poll run it's course. At the end of the poll or after a certain amount of time, then the results could be used to determine if the act should be considered adult or mature.

If you want our input in nutting out the details in this, lets do it! Because clearly you want to do it anyway, we don't have a choice in that, so lets work together to figure out what should be adult and what should be mature. It would be a nice automated way that the community could come together and vote on this all together.

Hell, we could use the forum as a basis for it, it's possible to post polls on these forums right? Could make a section of the forum, "Adult or Mature? Post your issue", and let people post issues, and then have them voted on by Lindens and the Residents to decide.

Lets PLEASE just work out the details before we go any further in moving a still unknown amount of users by force! D:


Hell, I'll start with my votes on the issues above:

Full body nudity: [Mature]
Partial Nudity: [Mature]
Display of nude skins: [Mature]
Cutting off heads in cartoon fashion: [Mature]
Cutting off heads in realistic fashion: [Adult] (Unless done in text based RPing, then really unless your reading the RP and picturing it in your mind, it's not so bad and should be considered cartoonish)
Brief sexual scenes: [Mature]
Detailed text based roleplayer of sexual scenes in public: [Mature]
Silent sexual scenes of sex animations (no text roleplay, or only done in IM's): [Mature]
Soft Vore: [Mature]
Hard Vore: [Adult] (Yea alright, even catching a wiff of this if done very visually and with detailed text descriptions can be very painful..)
Death: [Adult] (Looking at a bloody and abused dead body that's been tortured to death is very possible and I saw it the other day in my club. It didn't bother me that much, but for something to steer me even a little bit means it must be pretty bad)
Cartoon Death: [Mature]
Flirting: [Mature]
Strip dancing: [Mature]
Clothed bodies rubbing against each other: [Mature]

Your turn! Go ahead, try it! Lets see if we can agree on something to hand LL for them to use in making decisions on what counts and what doesn't. Lets just work out WHO is going to have to move at least! Even if we can't stop this nonsense.

If that is the case why are Linden Labs attempting to annoy it's major source of income?

My alt has been busy trashing up some previously pastoral Mainland parcels, making sure they're raunchy enough to qualify for Ursula. It's dirty work, but inspiring in a warped and strangely satisfying way. I hope the neighbors will understand.

Bizarrely enough, the silly X-rated affiliate vendors that I scattered around are generating sales, despite the parcels being age-restricted (!) and only just listed in Search. Who knew it was so easy to be a profitable pixel pornographer, despite doing everything possible to discourage customers?

I'm toying with the idea of releasing a bunch of uniquely useful, purely G-rated content that I've created for various personal projects over the years, making it available on Ursula for free with no-transfer perms, as an extra incentive to adult-verify. I'd have to be sure to include everything that's indispensable to business, education, and non-profits, of course.

Already against the ToS, anyway, if their business is on PG land.