Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

After reading a few hundred closed posts I still have not seen the plan for LL to buy or replace my 32,276 square meters of group owned land. And I have not seen any clear guidelines as to what is or isn't allowed.

Our Group runs a Clothing Optional SkyBox Beach "enclosed" to keep wantering eyes away but that does not prevent peepers.... Clothing Optional also means that there could be some sexual activity. Do I need to restrict this area to Group members only? And if I have to move, who buys the land and who pays for the time to rebuild??

In respoce to those who complain about their neighbors activity... This reminds me of people who buy next to an airport in RL and then sue the airport because of the noise.... Do your research on your neighbors BEFORE you buy....

Here's a new idea, unless an AV is a Premium Member they have a restricted Inventory Item Count. There are too much free items, if some one wants to have a virtually unlimited inventory they should be a Premuim Member. This gives LL payment info which could include Age Verification As Land Owner I owuld think Linden would jump at a chance to get additional income and possibly lower my Land Use Fees.

And how about regulating Camping and Zyngo?... limiting the number per square meter they put a drain on Sim resources... they do not improve SL, just give false numbers to place them higher in searches...

The only person doing that is you. And you didn't answer Kat's question.
So why are you still here instead of actually doing something about that by ARing the people who are ALREADY violating the TOS?
Watch your language! This is a PG forum. And for why the hockeysticks this has been proposed... people have been asking Linden Labs to explain that since they proposed it, and they haven't said "it's because SL is a brothel".
So why are you still here instead of actually doing something about that by ARing the people who are ALREADY violating the TOS?
Liar, the SL physics engine won't even let you step over anyone.

nany is really a lil angry teddy bear IRL

http://www.kosebamsekompaniet.com/images/evil_teddy_bear.jpg

there we go!

* curls up in the corner of the backseat, pops on headphones and listens to Metallica singing " So what "

* wonders if the number of first time posters on the forum in this thread may have some relevance LL could / should take note of *

The Mummy Returns is a 2001 American adventure film written and directed by Stephen Sommers, starring Brendan Fraser, Rachel Weisz, John Hannah, Oded Fehr, and Arnold Vosloo. The film is a sequel to the 1999 film The Mummy, and is set ten years later in 1933.

It's available on DVD....

I still haven't seen The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor (200 though.

Oh yea! I saw that on TV a few years back. Good movie, very funny. To be honest though I can't remember a scene with the "Are we there yet?" gag. Was it in a car? Or ? .. No idea, I'll go out and buy the DVD at some point to find out.. while I'm waiting for SL to become PG13. :3

That's not a new idea, that's one that's been rolled out every time there's an attack of drama, and every time it's shot down as a bad idea.

if you liked the first two chances are you'll like it.

If like me, you suffered through the first 2 for the sake of humoring others, you'll suffer again.

seems to be a love it or hate it franchise, I hate it. But from those who love it, they say that it's good.

OK I'm going to try to do highlights from the Jack Linden Office hours here - the best way I can see for me to do this is to directly quote people so I don't inadvertantly misinterpret something:


[12:17] Elanthius Flagstaff: How many sims is pornland going to be? Do you think that many sims will destroy mainland prices forever?
[12:18] Jack Linden: Elanthius, we're starting with a city area that is 20+ regions, but we have more than that prepped so that it can grow quickly if it needs to


[12:19] Elanthius Flagstaff: 20 regions? That's the planned size of the adult only continent?!
[12:20] Fontte Newbold: 20 regions? Sounds like a pilot to me.
[12:20] Jack Linden: No Elanthius, theplanned size is several hundred, but we've only enabled a smallish area initially

[12:19] Moon Corrigible: Would that be Ursula by the way? I'm sorry if that has been answered in the blog
12:20] Jack Linden: Moon, Ursula was our internal name for it
[12:20] Jack Linden: So yes


OK here it got a little sticky Jack said:
[12:25] Jack Linden: I think it'll be fairly smooth actually, the parcels will be very mixed like any new area. and we have plenty of land to expand into if we need more space

And I *think* he was respodning to:

[12:21] Elanthius Flagstaff: Like Fontte said, people are really desperate to know how the land will be distributed. Promises that it won't cost anyone anything are kinda difficult to believe.

but it easily could have been:

[12:20] Fontte Newbold: How are you going to handle migrating people over?


There were sort of two simultaneous discussions going on. I'll gladly wing the notecard with the discussion on it to whoever wants it.

[12:26] Talarus Luan: So far, I see no evidence of it being "smooth", except in terms of being completely nebulous.
[12:27] Jack Linden: it'll get clearer Tal, as we get closer to that time. we're listening to a lot of feedback and answering as much as we can
[12:28] Jack Linden: you guys seem to prefer to know early than wait to hear later when things are more concrete.. and talking earlier means we get more of your input but also means we have some outstanding details to clear up
12:28] Talarus Luan: I wish I believed that, Jack, but so far, no Linden has answered any of the hard questions, nor is showing signs of "listening to feedback".
[12:28] Jack Linden: I think doing it this way is better
[12:28] Talarus Luan: Hearing is not the same as listening.
[

[12:27] Ciaran Laval: Also Jack can you confirm whether the adult flag on estate land is at estate level or region level?
[12:28] Jack Linden: Ciaran, I had thought it was at region level
[12:28] Jack Linden: But i'll check

[12:29] Talarus Luan: Yeah, but the problem is, Jack, the plan has already been made. All you are doing with us is quibbling on details unrelated to the core of the issue.
[12:31] Jack Linden: it's been an very very long process and one we debated long and hard but we feel that once established this will be a much better model than alternatives


[12:33] Jack Linden: Yeah, I don;t really have much more I can tell you. As a business this was a decision we needed to make. I'd suggest you keep talking to the team responsible for it as they are handling all the messaging etc
[12:33] Fontte Newbold: Got a point of contact?
[[12:34] Jack Linden: Fontte, most of the feedback is going through that team which is JP, Blondin and otehrs
[12:34] Jack Linden: *others


[12:34] Ciaran Laval: Jack you need to poke a few people too, as Elan points out there are implications for land pricing and implications for the viability of estates
[12:35] Jack Linden: Ciaran, I'm happy to talk about the land part, that bit is all me hehe, I think there are a whole set of brown bag meetings to clear issues up


12:34] Elanthius Flagstaff: Especially if Pornville is going to be a 200 sim version of Bay City. That'll annoy some people
[12:35] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. it's a city area, with normal continent around it
[12:35] Jack Linden: Not a giant city
[12:35] Jack Linden: It's slightly futuristic, with mono-rails and stuff

[12:35] Equinox Pinion: but how can you plan that already if you dont know what will be G rated and what not
[12:36] Jack Linden: Equinox, it's just a shell, roads and so on. It can grow or not as needed


[12:37] Jack Linden: There actually isn't that much content affected by this.. the stronger end of the material accounts for only a very small amount of content on the mainland

[12:38] Talarus Luan: I beg to differ with you there, Jack.
[12:38] Talarus Luan: I don't buy the 2-4% BS in any way, shape or form.

[12:38] Jack Linden: We've surveyed theland, literally walked the regions, and trawled search and user transactions.. there is alot less of that material than Search would have you believe

[12:38] Elanthius Flagstaff: No-one believes the 2-4% thing. For a start people will want to move to maintain the freedom they have now

[12:39] Jack Linden: Now if people want to move there because they want to be in that designation, that's a different thing and yes, maybe it'll be very popular from that perspective

[12:39] Elanthius Flagstaff: I guess that's right, since we don't know your definition of adult it's hard for us to comment on the percentage affected. Your original FAQ on the subject was very very broad

[12:39] Equinox Pinion: and how will private estates be affected by it
[12:39] Jack Linden: Private estates can set their own flags and arrange their islands accordingly
[12:40] Jack Linden: They don't have to move their island.. but if they wanted to they could
[12:40] Equinox Pinion: so you can just flag a parcel?

[12:40] Jack Linden: Equinox, i think on islands you would flag the region


[12:40] Elanthius Flagstaff: Is there any hope whatsoever that you'll continue with the crazy migration but drop the requirement for adults to be verified? I hear a lot of talk about how this is to give people choice but instead it removes choice and forces people to age verify or be PIOF
[12:41] Jack Linden: Elenthius.. that wouldn't be my call to make. I read a lot of the forum posts and there were some good comments in there
[12:41] Jack Linden: *Elanthius

[12:42] Elanthius Flagstaff: When do you think Ursula will come online?
[12:42] Elanthius Flagstaff: I mean start allowing people to move there?

[12:42] Jack Linden: I think it'll all be a couple of months yet. it isn't a sudden thing

[12:42] Equinox Pinion: that is really bad jack....you have no clue what you will do with private region owners with it
[12:43] Jack Linden: Equinox, if island owners need to shuffle their estates, those changes are free
[12:43] Jack Linden: If they need to move islands about directly because of this, then we will help there too


[12:46] Jack Linden: you guys seem to see this as moving Mature content, but it isn't. we're only talking about the very extreme end of content.
12:47] Talarus Luan: Jack, you all can't even DEFINE "extreme". You keep asking for feedback on it.
[

[12:47] Jack Linden: ..Equinox.. just confirmed that it's a region flag
[12:48] Jack Linden: not per parcel


[12:48] Jack Linden: I thought there was a definition in the blog post..
[12:48] Ciaran Laval: Jack the definitons all got pulled
[12:49] Jack Linden: right. well i expect we'll see those tighten up. my understanding is that normal mature content isn't affected.


[12:49] Kyrion Yalin: Jaack, when i came here, i was atracted by the slogan 'your world, your imagination', what i see now, more and mote is that it has become 'your world, our imagination' and that is not good,. this is my feelling about all this
[12:50] Jack Linden: Kyrion, all we are doing is saying look, if you want to see the most extreme end of Mature, we'd like you to age verify and by the way that stuff is on this continent over here. For everything else.. no worries, you can be Mature on the rest of the grid
[12:51] Jack Linden: That way for those that want that experience, they can find it.. and live it. If you don't, then you can igore it
[12:51] Jack Linden: *ignore


[12:51] Elanthius Flagstaff: The crazy part about it all is it's all just animations. Little tiny cartoons on a computer. It's literally impossible to even BE extreme at this level of detail
[12:52] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. that's not true. Some of the content is real photography or video etc, it's far from being just cartoons
[12:52] Elanthius Flagstaff: OK, well is "extreme" just real photography? Because in that case we'll all breathe a sigh of relief and agree with your plans
[12:53] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. I think that is what we'll get to define, but my understanding is that normal Mature content is unaffected, but the most extreme stuff, torture, dismemberment etc, will move
[12:53] Jack Linden: If I had that definition for you, i'd happily recite it.

[12:57] Jack Linden: sorry fontte, certainly not intending to evade. i just don't have all the answers

Then it got off into a discussion of script loads etc etc. I'm not sure that I really got the highlights and I'll gladly wing the notecard at whoever wants it.

I sincerely hope you meant this as a joke or sarcasm. The vast majority of my inventory (which is nearing 17,000 items) contains items I have PAID for as well as my own creations with a very low percentage of freebies. And the vast majority of those freebies were obtained 5 years ago!

Stop trying to force people into paying for a premium account! You have no right to tell me what I have to pay for and what I don't. I pay out 8000Ls per week for my homestead sim alone (which that amount will be going up in a few months thanks to LL raising prices) not to mention what my other half pays for our full sim much less all the things we have paid for to improve our sims and attract people to them AND all the time I have spent BUILDING the vast majority of the buildings in our sims. Plus those things we will be buying in the future to add to those improvements.....

I'm going to stop myself at this point before I REALLy go off on you. This discussion has been had on several occasions over several years and it always ends the same.

It was the scene where the little boy had been kidnapped and was on the train... before he escaped out the.... ermm.... toilet hole....

a WEBCAM?!?! oh, heavens, no... those things are used by people having sex, doncha know...

*hides her VHS copies of The Mummy, The Mummy Returns and The Scorpion King from Phoenix's eyes lest she offend Phoenix*

hehe no worries, I'll suffer. My RL BF is a brendan fraser fan, I can't stand him as an actor, but I suffer through for my guy... sometimes

VHS?? wow I thought I was the only person left with any of those ancient things


now, semi back to topic...

Hey lindens... anybody know if there will be increased server capacity for the forums over the weekend with this debate still raging? The past 2 weekends of this has proven difficult to keep track of in here because of timeouts and such. If the capacity has already been increased yay, otherwise please flip a couple of switches on the servers before heading home on friday please

also, could we please have a post of the criteria that was used to evaluate 'adult' to come up with the 'only a small percentage' stuff? if we knew where we were starting perhaps we could make more headway into workable guidelines

thanks!

then, obviously:

teens can be verified to a restricted presence on a specific sim in the Second Life Grid that the adults may come to. Teens are not allowed to visit the Second Life Grid with their parent/adult figure.

then NOBODY has to move ANYWHERE. any of these "major corporations" that will be offering these virtually non-existant decently waged jobs won't be buying land on the mainland, but, instead, will be purchasing their own island sims and setting their own regulations for them. they won't be surrounded by the billions and billions of oh-so-offending sex shops, and, in fact, will not have a view of any other sim unless they choose to be connected neighbors.

NOBODY NEED MOVE ANYWHERE.

3000!

That was my point. I disagree with their views .. but i hold as ABSOLUTE their right to hold them. But my point stands ... as an example, why allow religion in all sims when it offends some people? Why is sex different ? What about people who hate, say, homosexuals? Should we have sims specially setup for the KKK???

It gets absurd very quickly really. It already is.

My guess is that someone caught their under 18 kid poseball hopping and got into a snit. SL is supposedly populated by adults only. No one under 18 allowed. Mature sims are pretty much anything goes. Everyone knows that. I can see where on the mainland it might be a problem. Set your draw distance down, don't cam from PG into Mature sims. If you TP into a sim and don't like what you see, TP out. I'd done that a number of times. I can see maybe requiring a Mature sim that is right next to a PG sim having a high wall so that people can't see in. But, if there is a path from the PG to the mature, the PG should put up a sign saying "NOW LEAVING PG AREA"

There is a forgotten concept known as personal responsibility. There is no guarantee that you can go through life without being offended. If you happen to see something you don't like, move on.

I once got to the Folsem Street Fair in San Francisco by mistake. I didn't complain, I didn't whine, I didn't protest. I just got out of there. Yes, I saw some things I didn't like. Didn't ruin me, or cause me great mental anguish. I saw things I didn't like, so I left. It is real easy to do.

Rather than trying to move 20,000 people who are exercising personal responsibility, why not set up a section that is ONLY PG? Then, those who don't want to be exposed to mature content can move their on their own. Maybe make it an even swap, and throw in free help from LL for them to make the move? That way the few who are complaining can shield themselves in their safe little worlds.

Oh, maybe have a PG only search feature. One that people have to sign up for to get their place or goods listed?

The people who are complaining can then go through the effort of keeping themselves safe without having to make everyone else do their work for them.

Right now what LL is proposing is a More Mature than Mature rating. Face it, Mature = Adult by any rational definition. By trying to make some activities More than Mature, LL is creating a nightmare.

Again, since everyone in SL is supposedly 18+, and has free will, and at least some ability to use a computer, they are responsible for what they see. If they don't like it, they can leave. If it is a griefer, report the slug, then leave.

This is very much like the issue of firearms - a very small percentage of people misuse the, so the all powerful State roars "We must BAN then." Well, a small percentage of people take liberty for license, commit outrageous acts in inappropriate areas (flogging and anal sex at a jazz club for instance) so the all powerful Lindens roar "We must move these sims and ban these things."

Thank you for this, Moon. Although there was an awful lot of "we don't know" going on, there were still enough solid answers to make this rather enlightening.It sounds to me like LL is deadly serious about the 2-4% assertion. Twenty regions won't even scratch the surface. Several hundred regions, however, would be in line with the 2-4% assertion. If he'd have said several *thousand*, I would have had a stroke!

Estate owners, I hate to say it, but the only way to resist this change is to simply refuse to flag. If only one or two do, of course they can simply blank the estate or force it through anyways. But the whole dynamic changes when you're paying for space and suddenly told "Oops, the game changed. Now you can't do that anymore". In real life over leases, this sort of thing sparks lawsuits. Nasty ones.

I have hundreds of USD invested in two small plots of doubleprim mainland in Bay City. Are you all going to give me EQUIVALENT land on the adult continent? I bought the outrageously priced land because it's cheaper to own over the long haul.

It IS 'mature' land, and I had planned to fly an 'intimate' room a few thousand feet above the otherwise neighborhood-friendly club I was building on the ground. Please don't tell me I've thrown that money away...

[12:50] Jack Linden: Kyrion, all we are doing is saying look, if you want to see the most extreme end of Mature, we'd like you to age verify and by the way that stuff is on this continent over here. For everything else.. no worries, you can be Mature on the rest of the grid


[12:53] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. I think that is what we'll get to define, but my understanding is that normal Mature content is unaffected, but the most extreme stuff, torture, dismemberment etc, will move

Quite frankly if what Jack said is what is going to happen then the vast majority of us have nothing to worry about. Only those who are into certain ~extreme~ aspects of "adult content" will have to move. Aspects which I suspect the majority of adults in SL are not into and would rather not be exposed to. Torture? Dismemberment? Snuff? No thanks. That is not for me. I'm pretty sure I would prefer that sort of thing to have it's own place that is easy to avoid going to. I didn't even know it existed in SL until some weeks when I looked at a few profiles and checked out some groups. First time I had seen anything like it in SL in 5 years and yes it did take me by surprise. Never thought I would see such in SL.

In respect with what Jack says above... I have to agree with LL on this one.

Thank you Moon Corrigible for posting that.

If lindenlabs wants to make second life more accessible for a wider public, then U all know that sex orientated stuff will have to move to the back of the platform, if U agree on this or not. Yes we all have to live our dreams in second life, I agree, but understand also that a big group of people in second life are fed up with this, and this is the group that is against sex orientated stuff, but this group is clever enough not to come into the discussion here, except of the few of them here that are brave enough to step up for them (my respect). This is also the reason lindenlabs started this topic as a spiderweb trap and that U all should understand now that U have lost even before the descision is being made public. Think what positive publicity this action would give lindenlabs to the outside world?

Then before anything else is done, we need these HARD AND CLEAR definitions of what is 'adult', then we can all freak out properly

I'd be more willing to believe that if KB6010 hadn't been there.