Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Hello Guys-
Having just received an irate NC full of details on LL latest bout of idiocy I'm appalled to say in the least. I can quite wrap my mind around around any company/business (which LL is one) jumping on the bandwagon to quell the outrage of a handful of puritans who bemoan the sins of SL. The majority of users in SL are of age and choose where to go or not go. If something is distasteful to them, they simply don't go there.

The continual push to get age verification (through a group with strong political ties and with a history of abusing the info gathered) bothers me. You have my data on file, LL. You have no problem taking my money, no questions asked. But now you want to cram anything remotely mature into a corner and tag all of SL PG and lollipops and rainbows goodliness.

I have no intention of providing any further personal data to you, nor to your third party Nazi-like company overseer of this push. What you are doing is illegal and invasive. In the US it is illegal to give a non-governmental party your SSN for any purpose. If you state that you or this third party have a need for this data, then you are posing as a governmental official (which you are not) and are making both us and yourselves commit a criminal act.


This third party company you've chosen has been busted on holding on to data for up to 3 years or more, not releasing it as LL has stated they would do.

As both yourselves and this third party, have flat out lied to the residents of SL I don't see how we can be expected to trust you. I mean, geez guys, you recently bungled your fees and double charged a lot of us and never returned the stolen changes you took, even after stating that you would.

I'm over 21, by how much is no one's damn business. I have never committed an illegal act and now you want me to commit one so you will have everything you need to tag me identifiable and then hang on to that data to do god only knows what with it, or sell it to god only knows who!

I will delete my account and spread the word of LL/SL's attempt to invade the public's rights as well as endanger them with their latest neo-puritanical big brother scheme long before I will give any of YOU the info you so desperately seek.

Sad to say, LL has the appearance of a big politically motivated sell out bent on lining its collective pockets with both our cash and our personal data while denying us our freedom and constitutional rights.


NO MORE BIG BROTHER!!

I am a parent. I'm looking forward to being able to interact with my kids in a rich virtual world at some point. I do not think that the proposed Adult Exile, or your more radical (if badly-spelled) idea of just removing everything that you don't like from the grid entirely, is a good way to get us to that point.

Among other alternatives, just providing a non-Adult continent (one now, maybe more later), would be a less painful way of moving us toward that goal. You could interact with your kids there, and not being age-verified they would not be able to stray off to the parts of the grid that worry you. And on the other hand it wouldn't mean forcibly uprooting hundreds of residents.

A fascinating theory! Doesn't really seem very likely to me, though. Are you suggesting that LL will really look through the list of search terms that people are using to find some particular thing, and if the list contains enough naughty words, the thing would be classified as Adult? That's doesn't sound very workable, really. No offense...

Well, I'm definitely not a lawyer, but if you read the exact wording of the ToS, it doesn't say that you can build your adult clubs on mature land and that LL agrees that they will keep things that way. Basically what it says (basically what every ToS on the Net says) is that you can pay LL money and they will provide some kind of services, and you will follow the be-nice rules, and LL has the right to kick you off at any time for any reason or no reason, and to alter their service at any time in any way, and if you don't like it you can stop paying them.

ToSs and similar agreements are designed to give the companies that publish them freedom of action and protection from lawsuits. They are very specifically *not* designed to give customers causes of legal action against them. If you can find anything in the ToS that even hints at "we promise to keep certain aspects of the service the way they were the day you joined", I will be very surprised...

as I understand it you can get a check done and join the teen grid with your kids. A lot safer and more wholesome all round I would think.

I hope you will be including a cross-section that represents a spectrum of responses, rather than cherry-picking only those that are of like mind to you or are otherwise sycophantic in nature. Otherwise, it is a pointless exercise.

Still waiting on some answers to the questions posed. When do you think you will get around to them?

I can ask them again if need be.

has anyone been reached out to yet? I gather the first of these special forums next week is on monday so I'd hope by now someone has been invited

As they learned the hard way with Bragg vs. LL, the TOS is not a blanket protection and exemption from US. law. While LL has all the cards as far as what happens in their world, in the rest of what we call Reality, they are as bound by state and federal laws as the rest of us. And in this case, that's a good thing. And since the TOS is still a "contract of coehesion", it is legally null.

The Commercial Code of the US which states that you cannot take someone's legally purchased property without formal court due process, however, DOES apply. Forcibly moving someone from a desired location that they paid for to an undesired location is -- if they want to play in businessland -- breach of contract. And any business that would do such a thing will never have my trust for an inworld business connection with MY corporate name on it.

Oh, and LL... that credit card on your records? The platinum one? Look at its limit and who it is from. Okay? That's my personal play card... Imagine what the business card looks like? (don't bother searching - I know more about covering my digital footprints than you can believe.) And with the instability in your platform AND your dealings with clients, you'll never so much as scent the money within it.

IBM, for one, has had some very successful meetings in SL, thank you very much! This is like saying that New York City is "crap from a business point of view" because there's like crime, and buildings catch fire, and what if some prostitutes walked in??? In fact it turns out to work quite well...

One could argue that the prostitutes are one of the draws to New York for the business meetings in the first place. Oh, nobody comes out and just says it, of course. It's all just whispered. But there IS a reason conventions are so often held in places like Las Vegas and New York as opposed to, say, Salt Lake City?

Okay but what is so disturbing in that line of text?..u dont actualy see adult content do u?
i mean the people complaining about this mostly are the same who zapp they tv from channel 1 till 999 to find a adultmovie on channel 88..then complain about it instead of zapp on to channel 89 if u dont want to see this..like in search u dont like "FREE SEX ORGY ROOM DANCE CLUB Neva Naughty Sex Furniture"..take the next link in search wich is pg... (sorry for my bad english,im dutch)

Internet Service Providers.
Lingerie Stores.
Town Councils.
Pubs
Clubs
Movie Makers.
The Motor Industry.
The Hotel trade.
Fashion.

Dale, I think you actually have a good idea... there is the teen grid where adults are not allowed... the adult grid where anyone under 18 isn't supposed to be (but many end up there) and of course the beta grid. So why not a Family Grid where those who want to be able to interact with thier children or grandchildren etc can do so in SL. Without having to be concerned about mature/adult content. It would also provide a place for those who find adult content offensive.

While some might think me prudish because I personally don't care to see some of the adult content that is on the main grid I do what any reasonable, rational adult would do. I avoid those places and if I find my self in one accidentally I leave (unless of course I am looking to buy something that I have not been able to find elsewhere, then I just grin and bare it until I can make my purchase and leave). Adult content does not offend me per se, I just don't care to see it since I simply do not use it in SL and I certainly don't complain about it. As long as those who do enjoy such things don't flaunt it in my face or harm others, I don't care what they do. It's thier choice and they have to live with any possible consequences.

Like many others, I am not in SL for sex, I'm here to build and share my creations with others as well as interact with those of like interests and provide some entertainment (live music i.e. classic rock, racing etc) that is geared more towards adults than teenagers or young children. My point is, each of us needs to be responsible for ourselves and not ask LL to take that responsiblity from us. There really is no need to force move businesses etc simply because some adults refuse to be reasonable and rational and take responsiblity for themselves. If LL wants to be so accomodating and ignore thier own so called tolerance policy then they should ditch the tolerance policy altogether or... create a Family Grid. It would not be so hard to do nor would it take a long time to create. I know because I run 18 sims on my personal pc (the one I am on now) so I do have a good idea of what is involved. I vote for a Family Grid!! Problem solved.



But what concerns me more is I've heard LL plans on limiting scripting memory per avatar (as I understand it) which will have a huge impact on my business yet I can't find anywhere to express my concerns about it. Go figure.

So another comment from me, i'am rigth realy that pissed off upon LL's and their new try to censorize and manipulate adults in their own manner i realy must say, WTF?!.....well go ahead Lindens do what you think you wanna do and after that....'SEE the damn results a nearly empty SL filled with kids and ...so called happy parents which are totally intolerant, and ignorant and whatsoever!!'

Go ahead LL's, you can do it cause SL is yours you all in the high positions can dictate how all the useers have to be.....STOP...did i say all?!....Well not all we still have the ability to vote with our feets and leave if we want to, LL's allready lost alot paying accounts/ customers, with this next new strike they will also loose alot more i just realy beeing close to hit the button 'downgrade your account to basic' grabbing all my stuff with full PERMS i've on my account, loading it on my HD and switch over to an new openSIM GRID which is less restrictive then SL curently is and start a totally new experience in a less dictated enviroment.

SO in summary.... Folks if SL/ LL's realy pull this crap down on us, lets move forward, just now there are in exist allready new SL like GRIDS which Lindens fear probably they would be a problem for them or whatsoever and they do realy have rigth to fear so!!

ToSs and similar agreements are designed to give the companies that publish them freedom of action and protection from lawsuits. They are very specifically *not* designed to give customers causes of legal action against them. If you can find anything in the ToS that even hints at "we promise to keep certain aspects of the service the way they were the day you joined", I will be very surprised...[/QUOTE]


I stand completely corrected because that only makes sense. Well, it was a idea that popped quickly

No, you can't. If you are not a Linden Employee, an adult seeking Teen Grid access has to be sponsored by a sim-owning educational organization, has to use an alt that is only usable on the TG, and then can ONLY access the sim belonging to the educational group that sponsored you to be there. Affilliated with more than one TG Educational sim? Do the whole song and dance all over again, with a new avatar for each sim that sponsors your presence. I already looked into it, both as the parent of a 13 year old girl, and as a registered SL Solutions Provider with multiple education clients, one of which asked me specificly if I could get approved for TG access. The bottom line was, until that University plunks down the cash for their very own TG sim, they can't sponsor any adults to be there.

Hehehe, great! Thanks

All I know is that bluffin with your muffin is bound to catch up after a while.

LL does what they want. Their grid. Their hosts. Their data actually.
Recent press clearly indicates the cash from the big guns is not going to walled gardens like Second Life. One company cannot and will not control the 3D internet.

Blatant censorship in a country with laws protecting freedoms is bound to backfire in the long run. But again it is not our playground nor our ball.

We just paid LL for the luxury of working for them building a world for no pay.
You have to love a company with the cahoneys to pull something like that off.

Seriously. Hats off to Linden Lab. What a remarkable achievement. People pay *YOU* to build *YOUR* world which you now will sell to corporate customers.

It is so awesome. the awesome is so totally amplified it is unreal lol.

I am totally impressed.

I just need to know if blood spatters has just been deemed X rated in the United States of America by the Supreme Court of Linden lab. If so I have some ad boards to take down and replace with fluffy bunnies. I wouldn't want to offend some (long many worded description of what Nancy Pelosi is deleted) who chose to enter a vampyre store in a clearly labeled mature simulator. In fact we need teleport process interrupter dialogs which require agreement before entry and if they do not agree to enter they get kicked back to wherever they were coming from. I.e.; no exceptions. You agree to enter wherever you are going. No more seamless teleports in Second Life. You have to sign a contract and disclaimer on each teleport. In addition I think everyone needs to be drug tested too. Including Linden Lab staff and execs. Must be totally clean to be in Second Life.

But then again I know whatever I type here is a total waste of time and energy. This decision was made long ago and Linden lab is just ... doing whatever this psycho diversion thing is they do every 6 months when they drop yet another bomb on the "commerce platform".

Enjoy your venting. There is a rock outside you could yell at too. Just as effective.

The rock, at least, has to listen to us, and shows more signs of actual comprehension.

Ive been invited to a brown bag tomorow morning ill be sure to post and bring a few of the issues i feel strong about to the borwnbag.

Are you one that thinks they will be forced to move?

Feel free to take a look at some of the comments at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Talk:Adult_Content_Forum_Transcript and ask them those questions..

Damn... more proof that even after 5 years in SL, I'm still being ignored by LL...






*maniacal laughter echoing in the hallyway and fading off into the distance as they drag her back to her padded cell and her little white coat*

Congratulations, Minx. Would you please, before you go, at least skim back through this thread and take down notes of what the major issues are? You're carrying the mail for a lot of us, now. Good luck.

And please.... please!! mention a Family GRID like what I mentioned in my post. Thanks!

I am for a Family Continent. I can't say I would ever step foot in it. I don't have any children and don't really desire to be around kids. But my point is, why isn't that being considered? A Teen could sponsor their family members. Perhaps privately owned sims that are already PG could apply for Family status? What I mean is that the sim could go through an application process in order to allow teens to TP to that sim. Part of that process would involve an inspection of the sim in order to ensure it is a safe, clean environment for families. Perhaps it could be monitored via an access list of some sort? Meaning only sponsored Adults that are related to teens or working in the education field that are sponsored. Of course I'm assuming the Adults and Teens would all have to be verified, meaning have ties to their RL info so that it could be closely monitored. Kind of like in some States, when working with children, you have to be finger-printed. Just an idea.