Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread
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Wildcat Furse
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 140
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03-26-2009 07:25
From: Patasha Marikh Wildcat - the type of online world you describe exists. It's called Active Worlds. Give it at look, it's pretty much a graveyard.
The flaw in your logic is this. You are assuming that there are tons of major coorporations/academic institutions standing on the sidelines just waiting for LL to "clean up" SL and then they will jump in with their millions to create utopia.
Please explain why you think this is so. If you were here in 2006 and early 2007 (sorry I didn't check your born on date before replying).. then you remember the flood of mainstream interest in SL. All these 'big businesses' standing around scratching their heads saying "okay we're here.. umm what now."
Suggestions were:
Virtual Meetings? bust, business people want to see who they are dealing with, why talk to an avatar when the same bandwidth will get you face to face on a Video Teleconference no 'keystroking' required.
Product Marketing? bust, I am not going to buy a Toyota Camry based on a 3d model of one. Does toyota still have an island even?
Virtual Education? marginal at best, there is a steep learning curve for SL compared to existing online education. University of Phoenix ring a bell? That's the distance learning model institutions are following now.
It should be faced. SL is it's own product. It's a game, it's a chat room, it's not suited to be a launchpad for RL enterprises, beyond niche marketers who target their RL products to SL users.
It was about 2 1/2 years ago I think that GM did a big deal to market in Active Worlds... anything ever come of that? AW doesn't do adult, so, if your proposition is correct, you should be able to log on to AW and then tell us about the huge successful presence GM has built there, yes?
This "expanding the experience" is ongoing with LL. I get it, I understand they want to try new things. More power to them. But the "it will bring in corporate/academic users by the boatload" had been used to cheer lead before and it hasn't panned out. Voice was supposed to be the killer app for education in SL.... it didn't happen with it, and if LL or anyone thinks that creating pornotopia and shuttling all the offensive material there is going to do it, well... *points at active worlds again* there's where you look to see a preview of DisneyMainland. I feel strong that 'adult & xxx content is blocking LL's progress as a professional company and also blocking a big group of potential end-users stepping into SL. I am pretty sure this will be approached sooner or later! |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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03-26-2009 07:25
From: janeforyou Barbara Will Linden Lab provide a list of content/items etc that are condiderd adult?
Are a sex gen bed a adult or matrure item?
are strapons considerd adult or mature item?
I am still confused on what content i can allow as mature or adult. but then.. am blonde... I think blondes are going to be considered Adult. Pack your bags, sweetie. 
_____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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03-26-2009 07:28
Has anyone yet formed an in world protest group and offered T shirts? I want a protest sign and a shirt that says *I* am Adult Content.
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It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
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Kittyn Fuhr
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 65
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03-26-2009 07:29
i'm thinking us redheads are way beyond that!
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Wildcat Furse
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 140
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03-26-2009 07:31
From: Taly Fluffy Just to help you out -- if you are finding phone calls too impersonal and think SL would be more personal, maybe instead consider using Skype, where your kids could see your real face instead of a fantasy avatar. Dont worry, i have everything ;o) but in sl u would be able to do things with them; built, create ,visit. There are a lot of nice places in sl! It is interactive education on distance. I really wonder of all the people shouting and whining themselves up here, if they really would think as a parent, how they would react here ? |
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Neptune Shelman
Registered User
Join date: 1 Aug 2008
Posts: 329
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03-26-2009 07:32
From: Wildcat Furse If LL wants to increase there customerbase (>80.000 online users avg), then harder steps are needed to reach this goal;
1/ remove ALL adult & XXX content from the mainland (everything!)
2/ allow private estates owners to use adult & xxx content (but age verification/identification must be acquired before teleporting into such a sim) I agree with moving all XXX content but a mature area is mature because it is aimed at mature people, that is the distinction, I am not a teenager and I have no wish to integrate with teenagers. From: Wildcat Furse
The advantage is that the teengrid and the common grid can be consolidated into 1 maingrid without the hassle of adult content interfering this joint!
(this would also decrease the complexity for LL)
example : parents and there children can then access the grid together and will boost education at the other side in a very positive way!
Merging the two is madness something I hope never happens without very stringent rules being put in place, far more stringent than those being discussed here, to do so would create some sort of virtual peadophile playground where teenagers, were easily located and preyed upon. I am a parent and if access were granted to secondlife for minor's, I would only allow my son access while I was watching his every move, True some of SL's education values could be met if parents and children had a place to go together, this would in my opinion need to be a strictly PG only area also seperated from mature and adult area's, but this would mean much tighter age verification and restrictions on access to mature and adult areas. Not something I feel decreases complexity for LL. From: Wildcat Furse
I cant understand that ADULT & XXX content is blocking business-progress for LL!
If I would be the puppetmaster at the top, the first action would be to delete all of this content and I would certainly not be open to go into discussion! This would open (YES FINALLY) a new door for a new strong customer base, a base with more educated and normal thinking people (creators, educators, etc ....), a pity then for the rest, but if we see what idiot things are being done in SL, sometimes I feel ashamed to be part of this world!!
This sounds very condisending to me, I consider myself to be a very well rounded and normal individual, with an open mind, who would like to see SL succeed in building an even stronger customer base, realise its educational potential and feel the steps they are taking are going in the right direction, I have no desire to cripple existing creators business though, or destroy the pleasure some get from SL doing things I personally have no interest in myself. From: Wildcat Furse
PS. to the people that would react, yes LL would loose business in first instance, but seen as an investment the ROI would be visible soon! one customer base out (low profit/high maintenance) - another customer base in (high profit/low maintenance)
have a nice day,
wildcat furse
There is no reason why both existing and new customer bases cannot remain in SL together, this is exactly why I believe adult seperation is required and I agree with it. Having said that mature is not the same as adult, and constitutes the majority of SL's current user base, mature in itself implies grown up not for teenagers. Serious business and educational type establishments from the real world would require PG land also seperated from mature areas so they had no fear of any visitors having contact with anything that could be considered even slightly offensive. |
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catseye Fride
Registered User
Join date: 12 May 2007
Posts: 3
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rights
03-26-2009 07:34
yes but that dose not give other people the right to enforce there will on others
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Deltango Vale
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
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The biggest social revolution since the pill
03-26-2009 07:37
From: Argent Stonecutter There's people 12-going-on-40, and people who never mature past 15. One of the extraordinary phenomena of Second Life is that it enables people stuck at fifteen to progress to adulthood. We are all familiar with 40-year-old noobs running around naked - and we are talking professionals here, people with status and responsibility in RL - but we must remember the multitude of low-key players who came to SL to fulfill childhood dreams, ranging from 'finding' a lost love to indulging in long-standing sexual fantasies. Linden Lab seems to have forgotten that Second Life is a VIRTUAL world. That which cannot be achieved in RL, due to physical, racial, gender, legal, professional, social, marital and financial constraints is possible in Second Life. This applies not only to Mitch Kapor's 'freaks', but to all of us. Anyone who has been in Second Life for a year or more has witnessed the progression - within themselves and among their friends - from initial drama and/or sexual gluttony to calm maturity as RL frustration is sated by SL roleplay. It is nothing less than a social revolution with far-ranging consequences for mental health. I wonder how many RL rapes have been prevented because fantasies were unleashed in SL rather than RL. How much RL domestic violence has been reduced by membership in SL society? How many marriages have been saved by virtual rather than real mistresses? As one of those people who was "12-going-on-40" AND "never matured past 15", I can honestly say that Second Life was a blessing. Today, at the ripe old age of 31, I will suggest that for Linden Lab to treat Second Life as a new version of RL is a failure of strategic vision so grand as to be off the scale.
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"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line; but it better work this time."
- Dave Mustaine
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Patasha Marikh
Here to watch the show
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 294
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03-26-2009 07:37
From: Wildcat Furse I feel strong that 'adult & xxx content is blocking LL's progress as a professional company and also blocking a big group of potential end-users stepping into SL. I am pretty sure this will be approached sooner or later! Wildcat, I'm sorry but your 'feelings' are not factual representations of historical trends. So I will have to say I'm not buying what you are selling. I gave you evidence of preceding changes LL did and the effect, or lack of on the in game world. As well, I identified another virtual world that had implemented what you described and the impact.. or lack thereof to their 'success'. Personally I feel, that if LL Hired someone along the lines of Lady GaGa and her NYC club kid entourage to coordinate in world events every Friday night the explosion of popularity would outstrip anything they can imagine. But I'm not about to seriously suggest they do that, given the enormous amount of financial resources they would have to lay on the line on such a gamble. Patasha |
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Rayne Keynes
*I* Am Adult Content
Join date: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 53
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03-26-2009 07:40
I have the solution!
Make Ursula PG and anyone who doesn't want to see any type of Mature or Adult content can move their.
Swap them land 1:1, and as PG sims are freed up on the mainland, convert them to Mature.
Then when you integrate the teen grid, make it a whole new continent. Oh wait that's right you say you aren't going to do that,... anyway when you do, because LL has always been so forthcoming with plans and upright in their promises, its already made for you. Then require anyone wanting to leave the PG sims, verify their age to do so.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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03-26-2009 07:40
Ultimately ppl will determine how things will be defined as adult; via search. If ppl are searching for "tits" instead of "skins"; then nude skins will ultimately end up in the "adult content" category. ...and so on.
Cat
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Dogboat Taurog
Registered User
Join date: 27 May 2008
Posts: 133
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03-26-2009 07:42
From: Wildcat Furse Dont worry, i have everything ;o)
but in sl u would be able to do things with them; built, create ,visit. There are a lot of nice places in sl! It is interactive education on distance. I really wonder of all the people shouting and whining themselves up here, if they really would think as a parent, how they would react here ? if i had kids they could go to teenlife, while i went to SL and did adult stuff with other adults, including clubbing building talking, and anything else you can think of, without kids thank you very much. if you are that worried about them take them with you when you go abroad or change your job. i dont want to see your or anyone elses kids in a world that i have contributed to. |
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Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
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Formal Declaration of Intent
03-26-2009 07:43
My oldest daughter is about to join this summer. Very likely this is going to cost me considerable amounts as she'll buy stuff left and right to get situated.
If you create the G-rated continent for newcomers, educators and (I know you are planning this) the teens, then she and more of my money will be going to SL. Give her a safe place to play and she'll be here in late May.
If you continue this absurd and shortsighted Jihad, thinking you can make the existing mainland safe for everyone, then NO WAY IN H*LL will I allow my daughter inworld! The extra money she'd spend - color it gone. And in addition to all the businesses and tier you'll lose, I'll finally consider SL to be broken beyond any hope and reconsider where the four figures in cash I spend annually goes. There are LOTS of things I can spend a couple of K$ on that don't treat me like garbage while I pay them.
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Patasha Marikh
Here to watch the show
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 294
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03-26-2009 07:43
From: Rayne Keynes I have the solution!
Make Ursula PG and anyone who doesn't want to see any type of Mature or Adult content can move their.
Rayne, that has been suggested.. like a billion times... their response has always been the same.... nothing. Which means it must be one of those good ideas that causes hysterical blindness in Lindens and leads to them performing another grand "Operation Foot-shoot". |
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Trilla Burner
Registered User
Join date: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 24
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03-26-2009 07:43
From: Lindal Kidd Has anyone yet formed an in world protest group and offered T shirts? I want a protest sign and a shirt that says *I* am Adult Content. There is a group allready ... not sure about signs and t-shirts though
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'Tis such a pity that common sense is not really that common
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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03-26-2009 07:47
From: Taly Fluffy Just to help you out -- if you are finding phone calls too impersonal and think SL would be more personal, maybe instead consider using Skype, where your kids could see your real face instead of a fantasy avatar. In the interests of balance: There is something useful in the 3D avatar interaction. There is a sense of moving in a shared space. It is personal. It is very different to talking to a real-life image on a monitor. That sense of sharing isn't possible with Skype video or high-end Telepresence systems. I can understand how the shared space would be important for people who are physically separated for long periods.
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589
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Jill Winger
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 71
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standing at attention-
03-26-2009 07:51
Alright, people, here's something to chew on, and I'd like comments. Since SL is being treated as REAL, for all intents and purposes.... When I signed up, then later opened two places at a not small cost (enough to qualify in People's Court  ) I signed a 'contract,' the ToS, which I have NOT violated. It was agreed then in that contract that I could build my adult 'clubs' in mature land. Now, LL is breaching that contract and it will cost me not only money outright, but lost wages and hours of labor. It seems to reason, and I WILL be researching this (though not quickly due to time constraints) and I encourage others to help, that the legalities of this could be far reaching. Could we not file a class action suit for breach of contract? |
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Neptune Shelman
Registered User
Join date: 1 Aug 2008
Posts: 329
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03-26-2009 07:52
From: Taly Fluffy Just to help you out -- if you are finding phone calls too impersonal and think SL would be more personal, maybe instead consider using Skype, where your kids could see your real face instead of a fantasy avatar. I use skype to contact my boy sometimes and must say, I can also see the fun in walking round a nice PG sim with him on voice chat, my wife could join in to, as she also uses SL. PG would need to be seperate from mature sims for me to even consider this though and my boy would only be able to log in with me or my wife present. Seeing a face is important but having something fun to do together, when I have exhausted talking about the days experiences, would also have its merits. LL is nowhere near offering a safe environment for children to access SL though, and seperating some adult content or asking for age verification will not make it any safer in my opinion. From: Sling Trebuchet
In the interests of balance:
There is something useful in the 3D avatar interaction.
There is a sense of moving in a shared space. It is personal. It is very different to talking to a real-life image on a monitor.
That sense of sharing isn't possible with Skype video or high-end Telepresence systems.
I can understand how the shared space would be important for people who are physically separated for long periods..
I agree this would be a nice future use for SL, but allowing kids exposure to certain adults is something LL needs to protect against. LL cannot rely upon parents being responsible, so I doubt that use will ever become available. |
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Rayne Keynes
*I* Am Adult Content
Join date: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 53
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03-26-2009 07:53
For the "your not a parent" yelling crowd, I have news for you. I am a parent. I have an 11 year old daughter, when I want to spend time with her, I walk 10 feet into the other room. That is of course in between weekends when we go outside and do something, you know the park, a movie, go shooting. Yes I said the S word, she has her own rifle and it's an activity that we both enjoy and do at least 2x a month. OMG! I expose my child to firearms, call social services I'm a horrible parent.
I suggest some of you try our model, you get off the ass and go do something.
Forcing the majority of a population off of their land, out of their homes and out of business because you need to be able to have your kids come in world to spend time with them is one of, if not the single most idiotic excuses I have ever heard for anything.
For those yelling about us wanting "our perversion" everywhere. You have completely missed the point, this is not about where we are it's about the access. Always has been. Forcing people to give personally identifiable information to access "Adult" areas of a game that is supposed to be "adult" only, when anonymity is why they came here is going to kill whatever economy SL has left.
Any corporation that wanted to set up a presence here is perfect able to and capable of doing so, without "adult" content in their face. I have yet to see a single instance of a corporation of anykind set up a presence that wasn't on their own island.
Corporations dont come here because they don't need to. There are better ways for them to disseminate information and communicate.
Why dont al simply admit that you want all of the adult content gone out of some puritanical belief. Would make you all a lot more credible. At least we could quit wasting time calling you for the lying hypocrites you are.
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Xavieriss Capalini
Registered User
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6
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03-26-2009 07:53
I am going to be very short:
NO KIDS IN SL.
Are you spending time enough in Second Life, Linden people ?
You cannot spend a couple of hours in Second Life without having to face something that holds some "Explicit content"
Clothes, profiles, group tag, chats, talks, AO, search words, EVERYTHING.
The solution is simple: NO UNDER 18 people in SL.
Why are they brought in ? Huh ? Using their credit cards for buying furry ponies for them to ride everywhere "loling", or using their parent's for buying themselves whole sims ?
Or is it for agelplayers to be terribly happy to see young and fresh blood trying to find a way to visit places they aren't allowed in, using big brother's credit card to be age verified ?
You cannot manage to keep 17 years old boys to get in and get what they want. They are clever. And smarter than most of us that weren't born with a computer in their craddle.
Now you are building a program that is meant to allow 14 years old girls to visit SL ? Or people that are coming into SL to avoid any kind of visual contact with something they actualy came for ?
Come on.....I want no teen on the grid.
So you, like the whole internet is never going to solve that problem. The only thing you can do is to keep kids out of SL.
And let all the others f*** in peace.
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GlorenBronzebeard Munster
Registered User
Join date: 7 Dec 2007
Posts: 1
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Role Players
03-26-2009 07:54
What about the roleplayers... most of the RP sims have been around for years, who knows how long Gor has been around with so many sims, I think over 200 cities have been built in GOR alone, what about all the other ADULT rps like Toxicity and Dark City, They will all have to be re-constructed? Midian city? all the long lasting RP sims will have to be moved and quarenteened in this Ghetto.... ADULT ISNT JUST SEX AND BDSM IT IS ROLE PLAY AS WELL. People see MATURE and think omg sex sex sex bdsm bsdm sex, but its not, Adult, as seen in the forums is anything that has mature susbstance. SL has created one of the most OPEN AND EASISLY ACCESSABLE RP enviroments.
I am sorry kids wander into adult content when they arn't suppose to then complain but we already have indicaters to show what these type of sims contain. We put up "BDSM, Vampire, Gor, Kajira, Slave, Axe, Sword, Gun... whatever IN THE SIM DISCRIPTION it isnt our fault that a kid decided to click the "see mature content" and join our sims only to get offended by them... that doesnt make any sense to have to move us... the adults... and the RPers... who have been in SL the longest.... I make weapons for a Gor sims, Meele weapons such as swords and such, My shop would have to be moved? all my items would have to be flagged? why because it is a sword? a fake sword? I own real swords since I was a young kid. I think the reason behind this is a good effort to "clean things up" but i really dont think things need to be "cleaned up" i mean sl is a world CREATED BY HUMANS and in that THE MAJORITY OF HUMANS ARE ADULTS so let us just DO WHAT WE DO and have been doing. Because I too would probaly go find a REAL RP game if this went down, dont make SL something it is not
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Rayne Keynes
*I* Am Adult Content
Join date: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 53
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03-26-2009 07:57
From: Patasha Marikh Rayne, that has been suggested.. like a billion times... their response has always been the same.... nothing. Which means it must be one of those good ideas that causes hysterical blindness in Lindens and leads to them performing another grand "Operation Foot-shoot". I know, but I figured one more wouldn't hurt. Apparently LL is some sort of hydra, I'd have thought would have run out of feet to shoot themselves in by now,.. <sigh> |
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Da5id Weatherwax
Registered User
Join date: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 90
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03-26-2009 08:02
From: Rayne Keynes I know, but I figured one more wouldn't hurt. At the very least, Cyns new blog posting lists "Why not a PG continent" as one of the questions that they say must be answered before proceeding to implementation. It's not an answer but at least we know it is on the list to BE answered. Even if the answer we eventually get is "Because we said so" |
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Angelyca Rexen
Registered User
Join date: 9 Dec 2008
Posts: 2
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Moving to a new "Grid"
03-26-2009 08:03
Ok Now That I Officially Heard That All "adult Content" Is Going To Be Moved To A New "grid" Persay... Why Was This Not Instituted A Long Time Ago For All The Pg Sims? It Makes No Since Why Those Of Us Who Are Adults Should Be Rounded Up And Put In To A Concentration Camp, For Lack Of Bettter Word, Becuase We Actually Want To Express Ourselves As An Adult? If It Was That Big Of A Problem Then Why Not Have All The Pg Sims Rounded Up And Put Onto A New Grid? It Makes More Sense That Way... I Shouldnt Have To Go To A Skin Store, Which Shows Tits And Ass, To Have Taht Coved Up... I Want To See How The Skin Will Look On Me, On All Parts Of My Body... Doing This Will Mean Lots Of Business Loss For The Store Which Will Then Inturn Mean Lots Of Money Loss To Linden Labs... Which Could Then Be The Down Fall For Linden Labs... And What About This Age Verification? Do You Honestly Know How Simple That Is To Get Around? And Then If That Uses Socials... Do You Know How Easy It Could Be To Hack The Servers And Get Everyone On Seconds Life Social And Have A Mass Epicimic Of Identity Theft? As Well As What Abotu The Kids Who Steal There Parents Credit Cards Just So That They Can Get Around That Whole Verification System? Or Even Show Second Life To Their Parents And The Get Them A Premium Account... There Is Sooooooo Many Ways Around This That I Can Think Of... If People Have A Problem With It That Much Then Why Not Just Stay Away From It? There Are A Million Places In Real Life That Do That All So And While Most "putitans" Would Not Go To Them Or Even Know Of Them They Are Right There If You Look. Just Like In America, I Have The Freedom Of Speech And If My Speech Just Happened To Be Through Dancing Naked On A Pole You Can Censor That.
/me Takes A Breath... Still Have More But Will Wait For Another Time.... Xd
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Evil Pluto
Too busy to Blog all day
Join date: 5 Oct 2006
Posts: 5
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03-26-2009 08:03
adding more to the Discrimination debacle... because that's exactly what it is, Discrimination...
After discussions with some of my Overseas customers who do NOT have creditcards on file with LL, the nifty "Age Verification" system does NOT work or in some cases is Illegal in certain countries! I would Hope this would be examined and worked out BEFORE this (again) Discrimination is implemented.
Also (because I can talk about this BS all day now, that's how Silly it is),.. Mature Mainland will be able to have ALL the sex animations and builds Adult is now classified.. so who's to say everyone in the sex business doesn't just buy parcels of Mature and use them for 'Private' Escorting? Kind if like........ NOW? Will I be able to file AR's against Known or Advertised Private Escorting operations on Mature land?
Funny how that reads, It's as if I or anyone has Time to police other people's Business.... WAIT! That's exactly what LL is doing *slaps head
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