Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Dale Innis
Resident Dilettante
Join date: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 45
03-26-2009 06:54
I realize that everything the Lab posts these days is vetted through the entire Legal and Marketing departments :) but the current answer to "Why not a G-rated continent?" is so obviously a dodge that I'd really like to see it improved. Currently it says:

"This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service."

which is a complete red herring. The suggestion of having a G (or a PG, or a non-Adult, or whatever) continent has nothing to do with teenagers or the Teen Grid.

It's the very simple question: "why are you putting all of the burden on the people who provide or enjoy Adult content, rather than on the people who want to avoid it?".

If this is really not about teenagers or children, what possible argument is there against starting a new "non-Adult" continent, where Residents can go when for whatever reason they want to be sure they will not stumble across Adult content? This would force zero people to move, disrupt zero existing businesses, and yet provide essentially all of the benefits that the current Adult-exile plan is theoretically going to provide.

Can we have a better Official Answer to that question, please? Thx! :)
Elanthius Flagstaff
Registered User
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,534
03-26-2009 06:56
From: Dale Innis
I realize that everything the Lab posts these days is vetted through the entire Legal and Marketing departments :) but the current answer to "Why not a G-rated continent?" is so obviously a dodge that I'd really like to see it improved. Currently it says:

"This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service."


If this was as simple as providing choices for people then we would not be required to age verify in order to access adult content.
_____________________
Visit http://ninjaland.net for mainland and covenant rentals or visit our amazing land store at Steamboat (199, 56).

Also, we pay L$0.15/sqm/week for tier donated to our group and we rent pure tier to your group for L$0.25/sqm/week.

Free L$ for Everyone - http://ninjaland.net/tools/search-scumming/
JustAnother Lomu
Registered User
Join date: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 0
03-26-2009 06:56
I think the Lindens are doing the right thing- that way we can get rid of all the pornography and stuff . I dont want to see unnatural sex stuff everywhere if I'm playing sl , or my kids are in the future- its bad enough that they have tolerated it so far. Most of the stuff there is offensive to normal people.

yes, the merge is a good idea. sl should be more for education and proper business. Its good they have listened to us.
Rayne Keynes
*I* Am Adult Content
Join date: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 53
03-26-2009 06:57
What I'm arguing for is not a new definition of adult. I think the system they have now works fine PG and Mature. I'm arguing over the segregation and the access. If the PG people no longer want to see it, separate out the PG sims into their own continent and make them age verify or whatever to leave, bring all new players in to that area and leave the rest of us alone. That way when they decide to merge the grids like they are denying they want to do, you have your ready made area just for that, simply make the teen grid part of your PG area and then all the little intolerants and hoplophobes can go sing around the mulberry bush all they like.

Or better yet, look at the top of your screen and pay attention to where you are, when the moniker changes from PG to Mature, leave before your little eyes are permanently damaged because someone has a boob or a nude painting sitting out somewhere.

All the tools already exist for the PG people to self police, they are just either to obstinate or stupid to use them.
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
03-26-2009 07:00
From: Ciaran Laval
Swords and two penises are fine but clowns are just creepy.

I really don't see the point in trying to define what is and isn't adult content. There's a definition around somewhere of what should be PG, there's a loose idea on what's broadly offensive and shouldn't be found in search anyway.

Just get on with opening the adult continent, let people voluntarily choose to move there and setup a PG continent for those who like to wander in a safezone. Why won't LL consider the PG continent option? PG sims next to mature sims are always going to be problematic, even after these changes so give people a true PG option.


Good point Ciaran :)
Vahn Dagger
Registered User
Join date: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 25
03-26-2009 07:01
From: Elanthius Flagstaff
If this was as simple as providing choices for people then we would not be required to age verify in order to access adult content.

THANK YOU!
Finally someone who agrees without being sarcastic about it.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
03-26-2009 07:01
From: JustAnother Lomu
I dont want to see unnatural sex stuff everywhere if I'm playing sl.
Where are you people hanging out that you see it "everywhere"? :eek:
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Jill Winger
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 71
*clears her throat*
03-26-2009 07:01
Alright, I feel I am cornered here.

IS LINDEN LABS GOING TO DO A LAND SWAP??????

BEFORE I SHELL OUT ANOTHER SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY US DOLLARS FOR THE LAND MY CLUB SITS ON, TO PREPARE, IN CASE THEY SWAP???????

OR AM I WASTING MY MONEY AND PAYING MORE THAN I SHOULD, LIKELY TO LOSE MORE MONEY TRYING TO SELL IT AT THE THEN DEVALUED RATE?????????????????
Vahn Dagger
Registered User
Join date: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 25
03-26-2009 07:04
From: Jill Winger
Alright, I feel I am cornered here.

IS LINDEN LABS GOING TO DO A LAND SWAP??????

BEFORE I SHELL OUT ANOTHER SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY US DOLLARS FOR THE LAND MY CLUB SITS ON, TO PREPARE, IN CASE THEY SWAP???????

Do you live/do business on an estate or on the mainland?
GreenKnight Kaul
Registered User
Join date: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 55
03-26-2009 07:04
From: JustAnother Lomu
I think the Lindens are doing the right thing- that way we can get rid of all the pornography and stuff . I dont want to see unnatural sex stuff everywhere if I'm playing sl , or my kids are in the future- its bad enough that they have tolerated it so far. Most of the stuff there is offensive to normal people.

yes, the merge is a good idea. sl should be more for education and proper business. Its good they have listened to us.


Define unnatural sex stuff please?
Please also define Normal?
Please define your idea of pornography?

Personally I think people should be required to have a license to procreate. They should have enough stable income to support thier children, and any future children. They should have an IQ over 100. They should be held accountable for every action thier child take, kid kills another, parents should be arrested and prosecuted for that. Anyone not meeting these requirements should be sterlized. But that is my personal opinion, and by no means would expect the world to live by them. I am by no means "normal" and proud of it.
Dale Innis
Resident Dilettante
Join date: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 45
Zomg It's Everywhere!!!
03-26-2009 07:04
From: Argent Stonecutter
Where are you people hanging out that you see it "everywhere"? :eek:

I was going to say that. :) Seriously, I think some of the trolls posting here have never actually *been* in Second Life...
electroRogue Fizzle
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 37
03-26-2009 07:05
From: JustAnother Lomu
I think the Lindens are doing the right thing- that way we can get rid of all the pornography and stuff . I dont want to see unnatural sex stuff everywhere if I'm playing sl , or my kids are in the future- its bad enough that they have tolerated it so far. Most of the stuff there is offensive to normal people.

yes, the merge is a good idea. sl should be more for education and proper business. Its good they have listened to us.


Then why have you got Dark Bliss ??? in your picks ? TROLL ALERT !
Wildcat Furse
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 140
03-26-2009 07:06
From: Kittyn Fuhr
I honestly would like to find out a comparison of spending. She states that non-porn would be high-profit/low maintenance, whereas the XXX spending is low profit/high maintenance.

I feel that if this were homogonized, puritanical, a LOT of the business side would go down. Someone comes into SL, and buys a skin, a couple of hairs, and a few clothing items. There is no real way for them to "earn" lindens, not like the other games (and most won't buy lindens, not without a reason), so...there, the linden trail stops. And why bother buying a house, if you don't have a reason to "hide"...a few would buy a private house/section, just to be able to invite friends for coffee/tea, or set up a garden, or educational spot...but most, if they cannot have their beds/dungeons/etc...there really isn't a reason for the rest, the "clean" furniture.

Now...those that come in for the fantasy portion. They come in, at first, thinking "only a skin a couple of hairs, and a couple of outfits"...then they find their fantasy nitch...Someone into BDSM then will end up buying boots/latex/hair to match/furniture...and of course, they need the land to perform their particular perversion on...and a lot of them will also set up their own private houses.

You say high profit/low maintenance...you know where that would come from? Less people in SL, because they come for really only one reason...in many various forms...but it boils down to fantasy. I myself rarely go to PG sims, because there isn't anything there for me. Without those, to keep the same level of technology, same level of support...they would have to raise fees...cashout fees on $L, tier, initial cost of land...it would all get passed down.

Bringing in the teens aren't going to help. Again...they don't have a LOT of disposable income (yes, i know they do have some...some have more than me...some have more creative skills/etc). Who is going to pay for it. the Parents. and if the parents are in SL...well, that's $L incoming that is essentially halved, being spent between parent and child. I played on another MMORPG, and they welcomed the kids...but, the money didn't come from the kids...it came from the adults. And it finally came down to "we need adult areas". Even when the age limit was 13 and above...and there were many avatars below that age...one "active" member was 6.



f u see the potential market that is in reach and having only ADULT & XXX content standing in its way, well then the choice would be made very fast! Kids indeed dont spent money out of there pockets, but the money from there parents pockets. Some people do forget that LL is a company, not a charity organization!

For all the people that are reacting very emotional, even me as SL resident/customer I have the right to express my opinion here, u like it or u dont like it. Like some people remarked; play with your kids outdoor, then I shoot the ball back and remark; why dont u live out your sexual fantasy in real life?

note : 65 % of my time I work abroad and cant see my kids due to the distance, dont you think I would be more than happy to stay in contact with my kids by using SL? yes it would be better than just a phonecall or using messenger.
BlueGin Yifu
Registered User
Join date: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 11
SEE "URSULA 80" ON THE BIG MAP
03-26-2009 07:06
The decision is made.

There is a new continent shining in the far east on the big map named Ursula. "Ursula 80" seems to be the center at this point. We can see it but we cannot go there. Is this the place for the move?

The Lindens are not asking IF it should be done but HOW it should be done. Let's remember it's their world and we choose to live in it. I love it here and appreciate them asking for ideas.

From: Catherine Linden


--*What decisions are Residents going to be able to impact?

We are open to talking about many aspects of the change – timeline, more granular definitions of mature vs Adult, how those who need to move want to make that work. We know some of you are asking for a more definitive timeframe – that is part of the ongoing conversation, what is reasonable in your view?

I still think it makes sense to auction the Ursula land and make the move voluntary for several months.
Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
03-26-2009 07:08
From: Kittyn Fuhr
i watch out for those who want to do things with waffles....now, cookies, on the other hand....


Had a sudden flashback to when she made a huge chocolate chip cookie and a friend decided to attach it to her mouth. Then when she walks her head jiggles back and forth .... so picture a 10 m cookie bouncing around chaoticaly with a small furry attached to the edge! :)
Patasha Marikh
Here to watch the show
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 294
03-26-2009 07:10
From: Wildcat Furse
I speak from a business point of view, LL can only boost profit and turnover moving forward if they take a new direction into there approach! LL its strategy was that they have let people running the SL grid for years, but this approach has taken the profit away from LL! The time has come now for LL to take the control back and to also take the profit back to there side!

and yes 'despite for loads of people' this could affect the adult business ..... but this a choice a company makes, not the customer base!


Wildcat - the type of online world you describe exists. It's called Active Worlds. Give it at look, it's pretty much a graveyard.

From: Wildcat Furse
that are the ones that LL is targeting now, which RL company would like to be related with ADULT & XXX content ?? = none


The flaw in your logic is this. You are assuming that there are tons of major coorporations/academic institutions standing on the sidelines just waiting for LL to "clean up" SL and then they will jump in with their millions to create utopia.

Please explain why you think this is so. If you were here in 2006 and early 2007 (sorry I didn't check your born on date before replying).. then you remember the flood of mainstream interest in SL. All these 'big businesses' standing around scratching their heads saying "okay we're here.. umm what now."

Suggestions were:

Virtual Meetings? bust, business people want to see who they are dealing with, why talk to an avatar when the same bandwidth will get you face to face on a Video Teleconference no 'keystroking' required.

Product Marketing? bust, I am not going to buy a Toyota Camry based on a 3d model of one. Does toyota still have an island even?

Virtual Education? marginal at best, there is a steep learning curve for SL compared to existing online education. University of Phoenix ring a bell? That's the distance learning model institutions are following now.

It should be faced. SL is it's own product. It's a game, it's a chat room, it's not suited to be a launchpad for RL enterprises, beyond niche marketers who target their RL products to SL users.

It was about 2 1/2 years ago I think that GM did a big deal to market in Active Worlds... anything ever come of that? AW doesn't do adult, so, if your proposition is correct, you should be able to log on to AW and then tell us about the huge successful presence GM has built there, yes?

This "expanding the experience" is ongoing with LL. I get it, I understand they want to try new things. More power to them. But the "it will bring in corporate/academic users by the boatload" had been used to cheer lead before and it hasn't panned out. Voice was supposed to be the killer app for education in SL.... it didn't happen with it, and if LL or anyone thinks that creating pornotopia and shuttling all the offensive material there is going to do it, well... *points at active worlds again* there's where you look to see a preview of DisneyMainland.
Trilla Burner
Registered User
Join date: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 24
03-26-2009 07:12
From: Kara Spengler
Had a sudden flashback to when she made a huge chocolate chip cookie and a friend decided to attach it to her mouth. Then when she walks her head jiggles back and forth .... so picture a 10 m cookie bouncing around chaoticaly with a small furry attached to the edge! :)



* giggles * the phrase " biting off more than you can chew " comes to mind. Kinda like this whole adult land idea. ;)
_____________________
'Tis such a pity that common sense is not really that common
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
03-26-2009 07:13
I've become increasingly frustrated with LL's seemingly pigheaded insistence on pursuing this one specific set of solutions, when we have pointed out several better alternatives.

This morning, it finally came to me. This isn't about cleaning up the grid, that's just the excuse. LL is a corporation, and interested in the bottom line. I think the real motivation behind this is simple cost control. Here's how it may have happened...

A STAFF MEETING AT LL.

M Linden: Can we have the report on the server situation, please?

Server Linden: It's not good, boss. Since our new Homestead plan went into effect, the grid has lost over 5,000 regions, what with all the consolidations and abandonments. We're committed to a two year contract for these things and we have about 1,300 servers sitting idle.

M Linden: What can we do about that? Anyone?

Bottomline Linden: M, I have a plan. We make a new mainland continent. But not like Nautilus or Bay City. This time, we'll make residents HAVE to go there. We'll do that by implementing a new maturity rating, "Adult". Anyone who wants to have Adult stuff will have to move to the new continent. We get those servers up and producing tier again, AND we get a lot of good press for cleaning up the grid.

M Linden: Sounds good. But won't the residents bitch?

Bottomline Linden: Yeah. So?

M Linden: Right. Motion carried, meeting adjourned.

...and that is why, children, it's no good spending time and mental energy trying to help LL accomplish their goal of cleaning up the grid in a responsible way...it's not their real goal.
_____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
Kittyn Fuhr
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 65
03-26-2009 07:14
From: Kara Spengler
Had a sudden flashback to when she made a huge chocolate chip cookie and a friend decided to attach it to her mouth. Then when she walks her head jiggles back and forth .... so picture a 10 m cookie bouncing around chaoticaly with a small furry attached to the edge! :)




mmmmmmmmmmmmm. cookies...

but, happens every day....check the Isle of Wyrms...when we can steal them from the big dragons! *laughs*
Jill Winger
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 71
yes!
03-26-2009 07:14
From: Vahn Dagger
Do you live/do business on an estate or on the mainland?


I own not one, but TWO places on mainland that are by ALL definitions adult. One, I own the land, the other, I'm renting but buying at a large cost to get ready IN CASE they swap.

Let me point out here also, after reading the office hours talk with Blondin, is PAINFULLY obvious they are still in step one (defining adult) and getting nowhere but their own warped view (nudity is not overtly sexual but someone kneeling, collared and leashed IS.

Its also much more obvious there is no way on heaven and earth that LL will be able to do either a land swap for their defined 'adult' areas, and two, have the resources to help move.

In other words people, we are royally screwed. Remember those hundreds of dollars you shelled out for waterside land, those many many hours you put in designing and building it to fit the landscape, the hours spent talking to vendors and setting things up? Guess what? You are going to have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!!!
janeforyou Barbara
Registered User
Join date: 21 Feb 2006
Posts: 31
Adult
03-26-2009 07:17
Will Linden Lab provide a list of content/items etc that are condiderd adult?
Are a sex gen bed a adult or matrure item?
are strapons considerd adult or mature item?
I am still confused on what content i can allow as mature or adult. but then.. am blonde...
Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
03-26-2009 07:19
From: BlueGin Yifu
The decision is made.

There is a new continent shining in the far east on the big map named Ursula. "Ursula 80" seems to be the center at this point. We can see it but we cannot go there. Is this the place for the move?

The Lindens are not asking IF it should be done but HOW it should be done. Let's remember it's their world and we choose to live in it. I love it here and appreciate them asking for ideas.


I still think it makes sense to auction the Ursula land and make the move voluntary for several months.


Auctioning it and making the move voluntary is iMHO not a good move. For instance i own a full sim and if i had to buy aution land and sell my current land holdings i would end up at some point holding 2 sims worth of tier and paying for 2 thats even if i could sell the plot we have now at a price to cover the new adult land which i doubt i could.

I agree with a swap meter for meter with no extra charges incuured for those of us that will have to move and we will see what else LL is going to do to make the move easy that is when it happens as we have no dates yet.
_____________________
Independent Shopping for Second Life residents from established and new merchants.

http://slapt.me



slapt.me - In-World HQ http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bastet/123/118/26
Taly Fluffy
Registered User
Join date: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 32
03-26-2009 07:20
From: Wildcat Furse
note : 65 % of my time I work abroad and cant see my kids due to the distance, dont you think I would be more than happy to stay in contact with my kids by using SL? yes it would be better than just a phonecall or using messenger.


Just to help you out -- if you are finding phone calls too impersonal and think SL would be more personal, maybe instead consider using Skype, where your kids could see your real face instead of a fantasy avatar.
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
03-26-2009 07:24
From: Dale Innis
(quoting LL)..."This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service."...


This isn't aimed at you, Dale, but at that Linden quote.

Once again, this is NewSpeak. This is NOT "providing choice". This is TAKING AWAY choice. This is about restricting freedom, limiting choice. Let's keep that firmly in mind, please, LL.

It may be that, for some perceived public good or standard of morality, that choice must be limited in this way. I don't agree, but I'm sure you see it that way. So be it, but let's call a spade a spade please.
_____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
Patasha Marikh
Here to watch the show
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 294
03-26-2009 07:25
From: janeforyou Barbara
Will Linden Lab provide a list of content/items etc that are condiderd adult?
Are a sex gen bed a adult or matrure item?
are strapons considerd adult or mature item?
I am still confused on what content i can allow as mature or adult. but then.. am blonde...


/me waves to Miss Jane. Heyas Ma'am. From what Blondin was saying earlier. My guess would be, IOL would be mature, given that you chuck Miss Jane's Little Shop of BDSM and vendors like mine in the mall. Which would probably get you out of needing to do Adult Verification. It seems like snuggles/cuddles and a 'bit' of naughtiness will not get you forced to turn on adult verified only access. But wild fetish sex will get your cute bottom toasted. :) Oh and it sounds like the occasional Nakie Dance at the club is still good to go.

Patasha