Ok, can someone just tell me what is wrong with me?

If you're not a counselor, you would have been GREAT at it! Your empathy, warmth, and sincerity is why I always enjoy reading your posts.

Ok, to answer a few of these.

First of all. The "move on" business. The problem is, before I've had things I wanted and had things like this happen, and people told me "oh well, move on". So I moved on to something else.. and then a few weeks later found that someone else had succeeded doing that thing too. So, ya know, "move on" probably isn't normally real advice, it's just a sort of "nice" way of saying "go away and stop bothering me".

Secondly, on the tatamae issue. Let's take this bit by bit. I mean, there's Marianne here posting about how she always builds what she likes, but then Marianne is the defacto leader/representative of a significant community in world. If I had had even 1/10 of the social acceptance she has had my attitude would likely be completely different. My typical SL experience is that I log in to an empty island, and maybe IM some friends. It will then be a 10-20 minute wait before they reply, and probably 3-5 minutes between each line they say. (So for about 80% of my time on SL I will be sitting doing nothing but waiting, and listening to my PC fans wearing themselves out.) They may invite me to something they are doing, but very rarely. More likely, the conversation will be either "How are you" and then go quiet, or complaining about the Lindens (which appears to be the SL equivalent of talking about the weather), or asking me about scripting. Now I don't mind at all helping people with scripting, but it isn't the only thing I want to do with my SL, ever. I don't think I've ever met up with anyone "avatar-to-avatar" in world outside of a Show and Tell for about a year (which I'm maybe slightly grateful for, since I deplore my avatar)

Now, is it any surprise that in that situation it appears that nobody would be interested in anything I did (apart from writing scripts to their specifications)? I mean, I had someone tell me the whole "just build what you want thing", and after a bit more chatting it turned out that since 1 week after her starting SL, she had never been without at least a free 16384 from someone interesting in her building. When I suggested that this might, just maybe, make her views unrepresentative of the real SL experience she flew into a blind rage.

So.. that's kind of why I use the word "tatamae", the social reality. I know there's debate about whether tatamae exists in Western society, but I theorize that it exists in ALL social entertainment media, virtual worlds, and everything else. The honne is people acting like they actually do and the tatamae is people acting like they feel they ought to in order to make the virtual world an appealing entertainment product. The most common example are the content creators who'll happily encourage newbies to build but then turn around and assault them hammer and tongs if they ever appear to actually be infringing on their markets.

want to compare SL login situations?

Well let's see... I work for a company in SL that is getting to be known, and is second only to SL in the amount of people that come through the gateway to enter SL (new signups).

This sim also is a favorite hangout for many folks who were "born" there.

ok now that you have the background picture for my recent status...

I login, dismiss the spammy group notices, check inventory for new notecards etc, then deal with complaints that have been sent to me concerning any issues that took place at my place of work.

(no im's from friends)

I then check my store for stray prims, return those is there are any.

(still no im's from friends)

I then tp to my place of work, and sit, and watch the people, deal with griefers, and deal with the constant snide remarks, about me abusing power, etc. (from some of the regulars who openly dislike me for whatever reason)

(still no im's from friends, but a few hi's from newbies, unsure what to do, and a few f you's from banned griefers)

I then answer any questions that arise, idle chit chat with the regulars around the sim, and deal with any other issues that arise.

(still no im's from friends)

I then (when done with my shift at the workplace) tp to my store, check for stray prims, return if any are there.

(still no im's from friends)

I then, ask myself what do I want to do for me today... I do not seek out folks to see if my idea is good or bad, I just simply decide for myself if I want to do it or not.

(still no im's from friends, although at this point I might im a friend and say hi to them, with either no reply or hi and nothing more as a reply)

Does this bother me? Nope. Did it used to? Yes.

What changed?
Well I decided no one else can decide or make my happiness for me in SL, only I can do that, and if I am not happy, or do not feel like doing anything, I simply log.

Waiting for people to come to you, to make you happy, or make it worth logging in, will make your SL miserable... hell that will make your RL miserable.

Yumi, decide if there is something you want to do, and do it, if it is something you want to do but can't do it all, search till you find someone willing to help.
(and for the love of god, do not downplay your own idea, or "test their loyalty" just accept them into the project and let the cards fall where they may. Did you ever wonder if maybe you push the people away, with testing loyalty and other negativity?

recently I needed some scripting work done, a few folks who offered to help, flaked out on me or gave up when they did not meet my needs, but... I was blessed with a kind soul who understood what I wanted, and is working with me to get it to where it is what I seek.

Did I give up on my idea because some folks copped out? nope, I still made the item, unscripted, until such a time as I could get it scripted, which, thankfully is taking place now .

bottom line yumi, don't give up, but, remember to do things for yourself, do not wait for others to give you the push you need.

your posts give me the impression that you expect more from us here, which, I do not understand... I am not going to hold your hand, or coddle you... I hardly know you, and only know you from here, so I can not go by anything other than what you put here for us to see, and what I am seeing is a lonely person, seeking something, but unable to find it... when it is actually within yourself.

Also Yumi if we all gave up because someone else did an idea we had, the SL would be a very limited and empty place.

Just because someone else did it, doesn't mean you can't too.

Imagine if all the shoe makers gave up because someone else made it first... or hair, clothes, avatars, sculpts, prefabs, etc etc etc

or imagine if desmond said... oh others already have communities, why should I even bother making one...
Do you think he waited for someone to take him by the hand and approve of his idea first?

I highly doubt it heh

Right, you maybe don't get IMs from friends. But you have trusted access to a public place where presumably your creations, if you did them, would be at least somewhat welcome.



Strange, I thought you got most of the things you do as a result of working for someone else.



Right, but that's just the point.. you hardly know me.. so why not get to know me? Everyone is telling me to build or live a dream, but at the same time, they themselves are keeping me at arm's length.. it's the equivalent of your mum saying "lots of other boys would love you!". I mean, I've just had someone who was being really helpful and encouraging.. but then they cut off the conversation because "a friend came". Again.. naturally I'm left with the impression that nobody is _really_ interested. I'd believe it if they were saying it from, you know, where we were hanging out in-world because we were friends.. not just at the end of an IM.

Perhaps you should compare notes with Cassandra, or even Annabel.

Pep (On second thoughts, perhaps not)

*blush* You are SO NICE!!! Thank you.

Here are some possible reasons why people don't take the time to get to know you:
*They are busy and don't have any extra time for getting to know new people.
*They don't feel the need for any more people in their lives.
*They don't feel that you are interested in getting to know them.
*There are other people that they are currently interested in spending their time getting to know.
*They fear that if they make an effort to be friendly with you you might become too demanding of their time and energy.
*There are 100's of thousand of people in SL to choose from so the odds of anyone picking you to try to get to know better are long, unless they already know something about you that they find interesting.

This all has nothing to do with you personally it's just the way it is for most of us. I personally noticed that other people found me a lot more interesting after I started valuing myself without that depending on anyone else valuing me.

Right. But all of these are good reasons why they wouldn't visit my build, either.

I do not see "No" in what you quoted, paraphrased, from the other party.

Agrees

She said, "oh, well, ok."

If she didn't want to argue she could have just bulldozered it ("Build it now or I'll e-mail you a virus that will degauss your hard disk".

I do not see the word "no" in "She said, "oh, well, ok.""

Or the indication of "No".

I have no idea what the IM's stuff has to do with anything, but I never seem to get IM's direct, to me, not group related (still not to me directly, just group chatter). Also seem to spend a lot of time standing around doing nothing.

She indicated No by saying it was OK for me to believe it wouldn't work.

you have spent more energy trying to persuade people to adopt your perspective than you would have just going and building whatever this thing is. why can't you build it by yourself, or with someone else? why does it have to be THIS particular person?

you threw out an idea, decided you weren't good enough to create it, so someone else did.

you are so negative, and whiney. and i can see why people might not want to make efforts to be friendly with you. you are VERY one-sided.

what did you GIVE back to that person in the relationship. all i hear is "this happened to me". obviously your ethics do not match. welcome to humankind.

Because they are the only contact I had in that field.

Them agreeing that it wouldn't work was equivalent to them refusing to help make it work.

Isn't building something they are interested in giving them something?

Suzanne, I can tell you exactly what answer would work, you just don't want to give it.

Interesting read, I know some people like that. Thanks for the link!

Excluding what this thread is about.

Isn't the above a partial prerequisite for some to be content makers/sellers in sl?

No?

Interesting and relevant read - thanks!

It isn't relevant. Here's what's been said so far in its terms:

Thread: Why don't you just move on?
Yumi: Yes, but that's not actually something to do about the problem, it's just giving up.
Thread: Why don't you build it anyway?
Yumi: Yes, but you yourselves write threads saying that "if you build it they will come" is a fallacy.

No other actual actions have been suggested - only different reasons leading to the same actions- and unlike the "game", both buts are addressable arguments.

It is relevant, because it explains your behavior.

There is no solution that you're actually willing to try because there is always some reason to not go forward. So you're doomed, okay? Is that what you want to hear?

Yes, but...

No. You've only tried two solutions, and in one of those cases my argument is that the posters in question are contradicting themselves, which is in their court, not mine.

It also ignores the possibility of not entertaining argument at all. Coke don't argue with you why you should drink Coke, but they seem to be awfully good at making people do it.

erm no, I did not get my things as a result of working for someone else.

I got what I got because I went ahead and took a chance.
my job (as I explained to you in world) has nothing to do with what I do in SL for myself, or any ideas I have.

I sure hope you do not think I was cutting you off with our conversation.

I am blunt, if I did not want to talk to someone I tell them straight up, I do not wish to speak with you.
I rarely log in on the weekends due to RL being busy on the weekend, and you caught me right in the middle of RL stuff, so yes, for me, RL always comes first, before anything in SL (except my job, which is RL in the way I work for the company).

I would like to get to know you, however I tend to be a distant person myself and it has nothing to do with the other person, it is me, I keep people at arms length for a reason.

however if you give everyone the negative nelly treatment that you gave me, shooting down everything I say, and telling me I do not understand, then yes, a lot of folks will not give you the time, or want to get to know you.

remember, SL is an escape from negativity for many many folks, and if they meet someone who is poor me, gloom and doom, they will quickly walk the other way.

(I know this from experience, I DO understand)

coke don't say.... hey I have a new coke, but I do not think it will work

coke says.... hey we got this new coke, you should try it, it is great