So why are kids on Zindra?
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Ian Nider
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06-20-2009 22:47
From: Jannae Karas Xactly. Although I might personally not be OK with abortion, I don't feel that I can or should tell someone else what to do with their body. So does that make me "pro-life"?
If you follow the stuff over at Xstreet, you will see that the main agenda is nothing short of banning child avis from SL entirely. I haven't been there, but I am not surprised, I think it's about banning anything they don't like really. I dunno if that is anti or pro abortion really, it's more like pro personal responsibility or something maybe.
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 22:48
From: Lias Leandros We have to look back to why Zindra was forced on Philip Linden and his customers. It all comes from the 2007 Child Avatar Scandal in Second Life. SO if the child avatar and adult content issue makes us give up our parcels - why would we do the same thing again?
. And you got this Lias-Fact (as opposed to an actual fact) from where? |
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Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
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06-20-2009 22:49
From: Kokoro Fasching Yes, same reason there is for any being in SL. Period. If there is no reason for "child av's", then there is no purpose for any other being in SL. Turn off the lights on your way out. .
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
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06-20-2009 22:49
Um, a question . . . I see a lot of reference to the ToS and CS in this thread, but so far as I can see, neither document has anything at all to say about child avatars, age play, or even (at least explicitly) about sexualized age play.
The only document that seems to address any of these is the 2007 SL blog announcement, which was (of course) a response to the "child sex" brouhaha then. Interestingly, this is the same document that also prohibits depictions of rape.
Am I wrong about this? Can anyone point me to something in the ToS or CS that has any real, explicit bearing on this discussion?
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Lias Leandros
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06-20-2009 22:50
From: Feral Mistwalker And you got this Lias-Fact (as opposed to an actual fact) from where? From the internet. Google. .
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Ian Nider
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06-20-2009 22:54
From: Feral Mistwalker Gotta love it when "people" flat out admit they are going to file false abuse reports LOL
[22:16] L... L.......: to keep the child avatars out we have to have impromptu Sex Hud parades through Zindra
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[22:17] L... L.......: if you run into one of the little bastards get a picture of them next to the parade Man... What can ya say. She's a good spokesman and example for her cause... but she really needs a ban from SL, she's seriously irresponsible and hostile if she's willing to encourage others to and commit false AR's.
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 22:55
From: Scylla Rhiadra in the ToS or CS that has any real, explicit bearing on this discussion? No, you're correct, it's just Lies and "her" friends trying to drum up support for "her" witch hunts. |
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 22:56
From: Ian Nider Man... What can ya say. She's a good spokesman and example for her cause... but she really needs a ban from SL, she's seriously irresponsible and hostile if she's willing to encourage others to and commit false AR's. Yep |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
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06-20-2009 22:57
From: Scylla Rhiadra Am I wrong about this? Can anyone point me to something in the ToS or CS that has any real, explicit bearing on this discussion? Clarification of policy disallowing ageplay: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=4781 |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
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06-20-2009 23:03
Thanks for this, Milla. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access the URL . . . not sure why, but the button won't let me log in to the portal. Any idea how I might access this?
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 23:04
From the Knowledge Base: From: someone Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves. Oh, Lies, might want to read this part if you plan on going through with your plan unless you want a ban too. From: someone Participation by Residents in lewd or sexual acts in which one or more of the avatars appears to represent minors (or the depiction of such acts in images, video, textures, or text) is a violation of the Community Standards. |
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Ian Nider
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06-20-2009 23:05
From: Feral Mistwalker Gotta love it when "people" flat out admit they are going to file false abuse reports LOL
[22:16] L... L.......: to keep the child avatars out we have to have impromptu Sex Hud parades through Zindra
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[22:17] L... L.......: if you run into one of the little bastards get a picture of them next to the parade Lias, do you have any comment on this, did you write this? Scylla, do you support her it if it is true?
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 23:06
From: Scylla Rhiadra Thanks for this, Milla. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access the URL . . . not sure why, but the button won't let me log in to the portal. Any idea how I might access this? You need to visit the knowledge base first then click the link. Wierd, I know. Here's the full page. From: someone Knowledge Base Second Life Info > Help with Common Problems > Inworld > Clarification of policy disallowing ageplay We've had a number of questions from Residents regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). This practice has been disallowed in recognition of our Community Standards, complaints from Residents, and international laws, so it's important to understand the definitions. Under our Community Standards policy, the following items and actions involving or appearing to involve children or minors are not allowed within Second Life: * Real-life images * Avatar portrayals * Other depictions of sexual or lewd acts When these materials or acts are detected, individuals and groups promoting or providing such content and activities will be subject to sanctions, which may include the following: * Termination of accounts * Closure of groups * Removal of content * Loss of land or access to land There are three key aspects involved in these materials or acts that are in breach of the Community Standards: 1. Participation by Residents in lewd or sexual acts in which one or more of the avatars appears to represent minors (or the depiction of such acts in images, video, textures, or text) is a violation of the Community Standards. 2. Promoting or catering to such behavior or representations violates our Community Standards. For instance, the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to "sex beds" or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts would violate our Community Standards, as would the placement of sexualized "pose balls" or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children's spaces. 3. The graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner violates our Community Standards. We understand that in some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide, including whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says..."  . Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves. If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist. Please note that some countries' laws may impose penalties for graphics, drawings, or anime that resemble child pornography, even where no children have been involved. Linden Lab reserves the right to immediately terminate the accounts of Residents who violate these standards. Warning: Any images, chat, or other conduct that leads us to believe actual minor children are involved will lead to swift action, including reporting to the appropriate authorities. We appreciate the community's continued support in reporting abuses of these standards, and we hope this helps answer any questions about this topic and our policy. To report a violation of the policy, please se lect Help > Report Abuse from the menus at the top of your Second Life viewer and follow the instructions given. |
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Scylla Rhiadra
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06-20-2009 23:07
From: Feral Mistwalker You need to visit the knowledge base first then click the link. Wierd, I know. Here's the full page. Ahhh! Thanks!
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Milla Janick
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Join date: 2 Jan 2008
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06-20-2009 23:10
From: Scylla Rhiadra Thanks for this, Milla. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access the URL . . . not sure why, but the button won't let me log in to the portal. Any idea how I might access this? Oops, sorry about that, I check links before I post them, but I guess being a secure link it works for me but no one else. |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
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06-20-2009 23:11
From: Milla Janick Ah, sorry about that, I check links before I post them, but I guess being a secure link it works for me but no one else. S'ok, I've got it now. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 23:12
From: Milla Janick Ah, sorry about that, I check links before I post them, but I guess being a secure link it works for me but no one else. Yeah, and the support system uses a session system that requires you to hit the front page before going to a different page directly if you've been away too long. BTW, thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that page yet. |
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Scylla Rhiadra
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06-20-2009 23:17
From: Feral Mistwalker Yeah, and the support system uses a session system that requires you to hit the front page before going to a different page directly if you've been away too long.
BTW, thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that page yet. You know, you'd THINK that LL would integrate this kind of thing into the CS, instead of hiding it away in the Knowledge Base. Same thing with the 2007 blog announcement of prohibitions. I am becoming more and more convinced that LL is deliberately vague, so that they can pick and choose from their scattered list of regulations and standards, as suits their purposes in any given circumstance. It seems to me that it would be a worthwhile endeavour to start pushing the Documentation Group, and anyone else who will listen, to consolidate this material somewhere so that it is absolutely clear.
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Scylla Rhiadra
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Lias Leandros
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06-20-2009 23:17
Ian and Feral. Discuss, do not incite. You're probably nice guys but your getting way out of hand here and focusing on me instead of the issue at hand. I will not be responding to any posts from either of you. Don't take it personally. Have a good weekend.
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Ian Nider
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06-20-2009 23:21
From: Lias Leandros Ian and Feral. Discuss, do not incite. You're probably nice guys but your getting way out of hand here and focusing on me instead of the issue at hand. I will not be responding to any posts from either of you. Don't take it personally. Have a good weekend.
. Lias, I'm just asking if you really wrote that, and your comment on it. Also Scylla, do you support Lias in this if it is true? it's not incitement it's a question. Originally Posted by Feral Mistwalker Gotta love it when "people" flat out admit they are going to file false abuse reports LOL [22:16] L... L.......: to keep the child avatars out we have to have impromptu Sex Hud parades through Zindra ... [22:17] L... L.......: if you run into one of the little bastards get a picture of them next to the parade
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Lias Leandros
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06-20-2009 23:26
From: Scylla Rhiadra It seems to me that it would be a worthwhile endeavour to start pushing the Documentation Group, and anyone else who will listen, to consolidate this material somewhere so that it is absolutely clear. Agreed. Too much grey area. This is LL's opportunity to clear up language in alot of vague 'guidelines'. .
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Marianne McCann
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06-20-2009 23:34
From: Jannae Karas Is there a legitimate reason for their existance in SL. No more legitimate than any other avatar type, I suppose, except perhaps exactly-as-one's-RL-self ones.
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  "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world  " - Prospero Linden
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-20-2009 23:47
From: Marianne McCann No more legitimate than any other avatar type, I suppose, except perhaps exactly-as-one's-RL-self ones. Nah, I have to hang around my real-life-self way too much during the day, the last thing I want to do is hang around with a virtual me LOL BTW, reminds me of that episode of The Office with SL  |
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Marianne McCann
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Join date: 23 Feb 2006
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06-20-2009 23:56
From: Jannae Karas The pro child avi agenda as well for that matter. Zindra has become their battleground. If that's the "battleground," ya'll can have it. I came, I saw, I left a couple days ago. Ya'll have fun doing whatever you wanna do over there. Not that anyone asked, but I thought the forest of cypresses was pretty different. I think the beach area is beautiful (for now). The city builds were nice but too modern-futuristic for me. The tunnels near the dam were pretty cool, with a lot of very weird mole content and some good use of sound. Also thought the cave with the musical crystals was kinda cool. Still, I prefer the other parts of the mainland I frequent, particularly the Bay City/Nova Albion/Suburbs area. I can't relate to the plastic highways and shell shaped building. Nice, but not my sorta thing. Then again, the stuff that will likely be on the privately owned parcels won't be my sorta thing, either. Never have gotten the appeal of that stuff -- in *any* avatar shape. I came to check out the land, not to push some agenda. While some want to create some elaborate stories about how me and my lobbyist friends are pushing some machinations or whatever, it ain't the case. I came to see the new land like anyone else did that night. Might as well go after the tinies that were there, ya know? No secret plan, no shadowy cabal. If ya believe all that about agendas an stuff, well, I have a really great Nordstrom's cookie recipe I could sell you. I've already get what I want in this world of ours, really. A nice little store in Bay City, a nice little house elsewhere, friends, family, and people let me blow up virtual fireworks. I get to do a lot of very cool stuff most of the time, though this last week has been a bit grueling. I got to find out I'm a Snowbunny From Heck, though. Might make a funny group title. "and that's all I have to say about that" - Forrest Gump
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"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world " - Prospero Linden
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Feral Mistwalker
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06-21-2009 00:09
From: Marianne McCann If that's the "battleground," ya'll can have it. I came, I saw, I left a couple days ago. Ya'll have fun doing whatever you wanna do over there. Ditto. From: Marianne McCann Also thought the cave with the musical crystals was kinda cool. ??? I haven't seen that, which region? (ok, I might have to make another trek or two, I need to still get the textures from the broken vendor anyway) From: Marianne McCann I came to check out the land, not to push some agenda. /me just likes collecting freebies at new lands Although, I did see some spots that would be nice for a completely PG playground (just kidding, I'm not that mean) |
