So why are kids on Zindra?

Now it's even ban from mature SIMs? Dooh...

Where are 95 percent of SL's shops? On mature flagged regions - with an actual percentage of mature content being 10 percent or less. Ban kid avatars from all that?

Where are 95 percent of SL's venues, clubs, recreational places, cultural places and so on? On mature flagged regions - with an actual percentage of mature content being 10 percent or less. Ban kid avatars from all that?

Where are 95 percent of SL's private homes? On mature flagged regions - with an actual percentage of mature content being 10 percent or less. Ban kid avatars from all that?

Now what will the new adult category change? Of course, all the real adult places will have to move to Zindra or to an adult flagged private region. And not only those who are 100 percent adult content, also those who are 5 percent adult content, like the furniture store that amongst 150 other things sells 5 sex beds. Here we start already: ban kid avatars from that furniture store?

But it goes farther. Zindra (and most adult flagged regions) won't be all adult content, the same as mature regions are not all mature content today. People will move there out of different reasons, even if themselfs they have zero adult content. Maybe they will move their shop there because that's where the most shopping will be done in the future, compared to the other now even more dead mainland. Maybe they will move their live music place there because there will be the most traffic. Maybe they will move their private home there because they hope for better protection against griefers at these places, because only verified residents can enter these regions. Ban kid avatars from all that? Or maybe it really would be the correct and sensitive way to decide on actual content/behaviour instead of on a region flagging?

Now, please, please, pretty please: instead of another round of attacks, think about the questions I raised fairly and answer them.

Support "setting up" avatars so as to be able to ambush them with ARs? No, of course I don't support that. Nor, I suspect, does Lias, if you press her on the point; her comments sound to me more like spur-of-the-moment bravado, than a thought-out doctrine. But I don't want to speak for others.

As to the larger question of prohibiting child avs from Zindra, I've already spoken to this a bit earlier in this thread. I don't think I'd support an actual ban, unless perhaps Zindra really does become wall-to-wall hardcore. But I don't think it will.

What I would FAR prefer is that age players exercise responsibility in their interactions with others on Zindra. Which is, in fact, no more than I think everyone, everywhere, in SL should do.

It's, um... the kinda lake area behind the dam where the tunnels are, underwater. No freebies in it I could find, but it's pretty and stuff.



You go and have fun with that. I'll be over here ---->

LOL! Yeah, me too, probably. I think that even my fully "adult" avi is going to be keeping her head below the parapet on the whole Zindra thing until it's a LOT more clear what kind of place it's going to be.

Thank you for your answer, I totally disagree it is a "spur of the moment bit of bravado" from Lias. Incitement to falsify age play is a what it is. It sounds fairly considered too.

Maybe... just maybe... it is just an idea... maybe you should ask ... hm ... LL what their reason for creating Zindra and the new adult content policy was/is? I know, it is a strange concept to actually ask those who might know best because they are the ones who did it, but maybe you could humour me and still do exactly that? You might find out ... no ... you WILL find out that what you think is the reason for Zindra/adult content policy is NOT the actual reason.

BTW, to make it a bit easier for you, go to the LL blog. Browse a little back. You will find the answer there.

Not the first time she's said this, or acted on it.


I agree with this. I don't barge in on people having fake sex and I certainly don't want them showing up and doing it around me just to try getting me banned.

I don't hang out in strip clubs unless I'm in an adult avatar (or even then, pretend sex isn't my thing, I prefer reality for that), but I'm not going to change my avatar to walk down a public street.

I live in a nice forested area in SL, I love my home, and it's mature land, I have PG land to, but it's not as pretty surprisingly *sigh*. One of my neighbors has a sex bed and cage in their house (well, they did, it appears to be gone) and another neighbor has a beautiful house and land and they are Gor's *. I don't interfere with their lives and they don't interfere with mine. We live in peace among each other, even with our differing lifestyles. It's called accepting each other for who we are and live-and-let-live.

* Surprisingly, the first Gor's I've lived near that didn't harase me on a regular basis, and good taste in setting up their land. I like them.

Well, you don't need to disagree with me, in the sense that I was merely speculating rather than stating an opinion. I have had far too many false "opinions" foisted on me in these threads to start doing the same to others. I am sure that Lias can answer to this herself.

Ahhh, I wouldn't really, I just think the idea would be funny

Aww, Mari - I meant you were a snowbunny IN Hell - being a smll child standing in Adult Zindra. I'm sorry you took it as a personal attack - it wasn't. Just a descriptive statement. Live long and prosper.
.

That would make a good group title too.

The public eye was negatively trained on SL in 2007 after the child avatar scandal. That being the catalyst to where we are now.
.

Still, you're breaking the rules in place with the Sploder, whether they used to be legal before or not. By your own logic, someone who engaged in ageplay sex before it was officially banned still has the right to do it now? Of course not, and I bet you'll agree on me on that one. So don't be so inconsequent, it's costing you your own credibility.

Who are "we"? The generic resident? Seeing all the people posting here, apparently not. Or is "we" this largely unorganized group of people, most of whom post exclusively on the SLX forums, since they were banned here, but not at SLX yet?

Apart from the unspecified "we", this sounds mildly after a form of Social Interventionism or Social Authoritarianism that was also seen in the 1930's. Fascism isn't nazi-exclusive, there are many forms to be found, even in most western countries these days, both left wing, right and central, both political, and non-political. The minute someone thinks "if I were the one making the rules, then this would change", he's already giving in to it.

"Many"? "Us"? And maybe assumed wrong. That happens to me every time I visit the bookies for the horsegames.

"We" again..

Not really, Linden Labs has trouble getting rl companies to consider SL as a platform because of all the in-your-face sex ALL OVER THE PLACE. Would you consider having an online meeting or presentation in SL while there's neon signs advertising escorts and such within viewing range? I wonder how many people tell their RL friends that they're in SL at all to be honest. You can hardly make an excursion through a bunch of grids without running into the sex places. There are some without, of course, but at the same time, many of the interesting places have less appropriate stuff right next door.

Child avatar plans to go to Zindra to get chair. Child avatar right clicks and wears folder in their inventory making them an adult avatar. Goes and buys chair in Zindra. Leaves Zindra and puts child avatar back on. Sits in chair.

See chair shopping example above

Region flagging is more appropriate I think. If you want to wear a child avatar and never take it off then do not move to Zindra. Now that is my strong opinion on the matter.

When I go to Gor sims that demand me be human only I remove my tails and ears - grab their 'free woman' mask and shop. When I leave I get my avatar back on. With Zindra and child avatars its better safe than sorry.
.
.

Ahem, no. LL's intent for the creation of Zindra and the new adult policy content is to offer those who don't want to encounter anything adult a clean SL experience. This is mostly catering to companies and educational institutions who have a hard time to sell SL as business place to their partners or use SL for educational purposes, when anybody who jumps into SL for the first time to check out what it is all about stumbles over adult content in his first user hour.

The techie department from worldwide company XYZ goes to the CEO and tells him "hey boss, there is this virtual world, it would be good to represent our company there, this is the future". The CEO says "okay, I'll check it out", goes there and amongst the first things he sees is a sex dungeon or an escort service. And he says "hell no! I won't risk the good image of our company by setting up a representation in such a filthy environment!".

The techie department from university ABC goes to the principal and tells him "hey boss, there is this virtual world, it would be good to expand our educational efforts into this new world, this is the future" ... I won't repeat everything, it simply is the same as with the CEO.

THIS is what LL is afraid of, THIS is the reason for Zindra and everything related to it. LL wants THIS out of the first hour experience, LL wants it only to be found if you explictly search for it. LL wants, maybe even needs those big players. If you look back over the last 2 years or so you will find more and more efforts by LL to attract them. Zindra and the new adult content policy is part of this - nothing more, nothing less.

So, if you want to blame this new policy on someone, you can't blame it on kid avatars, you have to blame it on adult avatars doing adult stuff in more or less public view.

QFT & fixed.


but we don't want things like truth and facts to muddy the waters Daniel, better to have a scapegoat than to be completely honest that while the sex trade has made a lot of people money in sl, it has also given it a reputation of being that "perverted game on the internet".

You are correct, this would lessen the problem. It's a PITA, though, especially if you are (I guess like you) something else than a normal human and would need to adjust all attachments to a different body. Of course, one can simply take off ears and tail for example, but giving up a significant part of your "personality" to do something that is your right to do anyways?

Also you don't adress the problem of private homes. Should kid avatars "grow up" in their family home, when this is exactly the main place of their RP as kids of some adult avatars?

And there is another problem: what would really count to decide if it is a kid avatar visiting? The body appearance? Or maybe the profile, where some kid avatars state "playing a 8/10/12/14/16yo in SL"? Should they change the profile, too? Because no matter how much a kid avatar would "grow up" for visiting such a place, there will still be enough harassment, attacking and fraudulant abuse reporting if it is known that this avatar the other 99 percent of his time in SL is RP'ing a kid or teen.

Oh no, I have a slegal sploder now - Lindens took my sploder with the random number generator script a long time ago. Why would I post in the SL forums that I have a illegal gambling machine in SL? Amusing.
Some of we are posting in the xstreet thread on this same subject. Some we are my SL pals that do not post in forums bcause they don't like the aggressiveness. I do nto know this person Vryl Valkyrie, but she posted this audio on the subject: http://www.vryl.eu/zindra.mp3
Welcome to Middle Class America - where special interest groups can get public officials to do their bidding (see craiglist serial killer and the changes to that site after a District Attorney made strong suggestions)
Of course not. Microsoft already made the firewall Sim where the companies can have their employees and not have that content on them. And the employee can teleport anywhere in SL - and his company-based inventory will not leave the company sim server. That was dealt with some time ago. The issue is what leaked out of SL in 2007 - the child avatar scandal. LL just made a positive press release out of the sutuation.
Would you bring mature adults into SL to experience the Adult Zindra - put them through the exposing verification process - teleport them to the Zindra strip club and a child avatar walks in? Many would find that repulsive.
You can hardly make an excursion through this adult world without some adult running up to you pretending to be a eight year old child.
.

We have to agree to disagree about this one. The only reason anyone that has not become a SL resident yet knows anything about the sex issues here is because of the very public child avatar scandal that was unveiled in the mainstream media. We have seen the dozens of articles about business pulling out of SL because its not scalable. I have not seen any articles from any business talking about Adult content.
We have had sex clubs and Goreans in SL since 2003. The only SL INTERNATIONAL Sex scandal was on with child avatars. I am amazed you can just dismiss it and insist it has absolutely no bearing on where we are today.
.

I probably only know half, if that, of the attacks you've had over the past week, Mari. Yesterday I saw the latest blog from The Shrew, and that alone would have been quite enough to set me off. You've conducted yourself with commendable grace through all this, and I hope it's dying down now.

It's probably wise to scratch Zindra off the "to visit" list for a while, but as I said to Cody above, I really think it's too soon to decide it's somewhere child AVs won't feel welcome in the future. It will take a while for the "Adult only" feeling to subside, but I'm quite sure that market forces will change that in a few months at most.

In the meantime, there's SL6B--you owe me a visit there, remember?

Oh no, don't get me wrong. This *has* a bearing on where we are today, the result being LL installing the ageplay policy in 2007. It has, however, nothing to do with Zindra and the adult content policy changes.

The public image of SL is not "that's a place where child porn is running wild" but "that's a place filled with sex and smut".

BTW... *if* LL decides to ban kid/teen avatars from the mainland continent Zindra by declaring it "adult only", I will propose the creation of a "kids only" mainland continent, where only kid/teen avatars are allowed. I hope LL will make it a nice one, 150 regions with lots of nice landscape, beaches, water and builds by the Department of Public Works will be okay I guess. I mean, in *that* case I would say "what's good for one special interest group can't be wrong for another one".

Ohhh, if they do, it had better have lots of hills and forests for camps and general running around

That only works for meatings within the company, many companies won't even concider this untill they have checked out SL and when the first thing they see is a bdsm club or combat area with blood splatering at every step they won'teven look further, even if they did a firewalled sim does not bring LL money like a rented sim on SL would.

not a single post in the blog or in the forum by a Linden about the adult contenent mentions any other reason then keeping the extreme content out of the face of casual visitors so it is logical to asume that that is the reason for doing it, Blondine also explicitatly stated in the forum when asked about it that child avatars can visit the adult flaged regions if the are verfied, if the sexual ageplay stories where the reason then that would never have been said.

And how would banning child avs from Zindra fix that? if someone walks into a sexclub or stripclub with a child av they are already breaking the current rules, adding one more does not help, just ban/eject/ar and move on just like I would if a nude adult av walks into my orphanage.

]You can hardly make an excursion through this adult world without some adult running up to you pretending to be a neko/furry/gor/etc.
I for one I'm glad there are so many different life styles finding a place in SL..

I second that, heck I would become a mole just to help make that a place of fun with loads of rivers, forests, bridges, trainrides, lakes, playgrounds, parks and all the other things that made childhood fun.

I think you are putting too much faith in Linden Lab's decision making process. Question Authority. These are the same folks that first said that copybot was acceptable in SL. After 8 hours of protest - LL banned copybot.

So these 'kids' can stand just outside the strip club on a Linden road and be ok. Nonsense.

And let' be clear ageplay is a traditional BDSM word used for ADULTS wearing child clothing and engaging in sexual activity with another adult.
Someone in SL decided to adopt the phrase to make it be a child avatar and a adult avatar in sexual situations. And it's not that.


.