So why are kids on Zindra?

Argent,remember me? I went on for 30 pages about child avatars in mature areas. I am extremely on the other side of the neutrality fence when it comes to depicting children in SL. I feel its crossing the line. You have alot of folks into different things agreeing that it is offensive. People that role play as Goreans, furries, vampires etc. are able to come together on this issue. And when you offend so many people's moral base you have gone too far and need to be reeled back in. It's all fun and games until a Senator starts a filibuster.
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See, what you're doing here is confusing your own ideas about what these words mean with the terms of service. I own two private sims, which are intended almost entirely for role-playing by child avatars, and adults who want to play innocently. They are flagged as Mature. Why? Because child avatars often role-play as part of families, and *other* members of those families sometimes want to do mature things, so we allow that in skyboxes. Because PG to many people means they are afraid to say a swear word. While I'll ask someone to leave if they are swearing constantly, I don't want someone to fear being ARed for slipping up on language. Because a PG sim means no nudity, ever... and I don't want stinky kids on my sim. There are all sorts of reasons. Read the rating guidelines; one of the suggestions for the type of content that should be on a mature sim is "parks."

Hope that disabuses you of the notion that you are entitled to exclude kids from the majority of SL based on nothing but your own funky ideas about what words should mean.

The rating (PG/Mature/Adult) on a sim is an UPPER bound on the kind of content that can exist there. I can go buy a bunch of land right now on Zindra, and I can make it perfectly innocent content, not allow any sexually suggestive conversation, or anything of the sort. AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I don't have to have a reason. Maybe I searched the auctions, and that was the cheapest land I could find. You don't have to care about my reasons. If you don't like that I allow child avatars, then don't come on my land.



If you want Linden Labs to create a special area that bans child avatars, I suppose you should go lobby them to do so. So far, they haven't. They never attempted to do so; and if you think they did, then the whole purpose of Zindra must have gone over your head.

Zindra is a promise, made BY Linden Labs, TO people who are trying to avoid that kind of content. It is NOT a restriction on child avatars. Personally, I think Zindra is a great idea and it helps child avatars a lot. (Yes, I know not all child avatars agree with me on that!) It also helps adult avatars who don't want to go shopping for pool tables and have to bite their tongue and ignore the rest of what's in the room. I almost left SL when I was new, until I got skilled enough to avoid walking into these extremely uncomfortable situations. But then, I'm also the sort of person that leaves Google's SafeSearch turned on. If someone else feels differently, wants to open up more possibilities and take responsibility themselves for knowing what they are walking into before they walk in, there's really no problem with that.

What, so another adults mind, freedom and paid SL account is "yours" to re educate, AR or what ever it is you feel you should impose? THAT'S offensive.

If there's anything residents in Zindra should be it's tolerant.

So somoene who uses a child avatar goes there. so what, what do you care? They aren't breaking the TOS, they aren't engaging in any inappropriate activity, so who cares what their avatar looks like.

Live and let live. No one is cramping you style, so let it go.

Go to Zindra and let your freak flag fly. While you're there, let other people do whatever the hell they want.

So be it. I do not agree with the gambling ban and the ARs on my lovely sploder - but there it is. 'Dem are the rules. And if we (or outside influences) are able to get LL to make it clear that child avatars are not allowed in Zindra - then 'dem will be the rules we will have to abide by.
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Moesha you might want to look at the thread you are in, maybe double check the OP?

This is about child avatars

Argent, why is "adults only" such a difficult concept to grasp in a game?

Adult Area=Adult Avatar

It isnt that complicated to agree to or understand

i agree they should not be around certain things..
but i don't see zindra as it being just a place for those certain things only..there was more to the mature areas than mature content and there will be more to zindra than adult content..

i have no problem with them going to the places they are allowed that are going to be in zindra ..there will be those place there..depending on the TOS and CS changes..those will say what the linden areas there will be rated..from the looks of it they are going to be pg like an info hub would be in a mature zone outside of zindra..

i am not for them being in those places they are not allowed to go now but i'm not for taking more away from them than they already cannot have..for any kind of avatar for that matter..

i'm never in favor of the hunters that blindly pick something as a target and do not see the bigger picture of what all really gets affected with their cause..there are always branches to every targeted tree...

i spoke up loud to the hunters wanting certain adult content to not make it to zindra..
now only a week or two later there arepeople in the adult content group wanting to do the same thing that someone was wanting to do to them a week or two ago..
it's not a hard choice of what side to choose for me..

the adult content people complaining about child avatars as far as i can see..they cannot see that zindra will be more than just them and their adult content there..
that when the swap is over all types of land owners will be buying there not just people with adult content..

what they should be worried about is the people and actions and things that put them their..the people that wanted SL cleaned up....the people that do not understand SL and may pop in to make changes because they cannot let something alone even though they plan on spending no time here..movements and activists and politicians...the hunters that got them their Zindra..

Wow, fancy being proud of being so openly proud and willing to harass innocent people.

So are you accusing all child avs of pedophilia? Are you point blank calling them pedo? Because you'd have to be saying that to justify your vigilantism. Otherwise your clearly harassing, threatening and intolerant to say the least as child avs, and their right to be in Zindra are not against the ToS, like your sploder is.

because the Zindra continent was only to be opened for two weeks. in the meantime LL invited ALL, to come and explore it. no land was for sale no shops were up. it was just an open house. there was nothing "adult themed" there. therefore anyone could come and look at it. a few well known kid avs took LL up on their offer to explore Zindra. and this is the result. no one caused any problems outside a few "adult" avs who have threatened to show up naked specifically to entrap child avs.

the ONLY legitimate complaints i have seen in this thread thus far is that land owners who have invested heavily(and not so heavily)in mature land are now being "asked" to spend more money on "adult" land, and that shops owners who even have ONE word on the revised adult search word thingy may have to move there as well.

read my reply to Lias. then you will see why i take the stand i do.

if you have an issue with child avs, there are tools that you can use to insure you will never see one on your land. and if it has not been pointed out enough, Zindra probably wil be the place where all the sexxors goes, but it may not be the ONLY thing there.

We already have TOS rules regarding child avatars and adult content in place. Nothing more is needed.

Child avatars are already prohibited from being in proximity to adult content, and if parcel owners wish to prohibit them from their land, they can.

Banning child avatars (or any other avatars) from empty regions simply because they are rated "Adult" or "Mature" is petty, vindictive, harassment and anti-freedom.

See, the fact that you set up two sims that encourage child avatars to be there AND you also set up skyboxes for simulated sex on those same sims just does not sound right to me. The thing is that were not complaining about it now because of Zindra. I think because of the Zindra's publicity we are now finding out that such things were happening in the grey areas of the TOS. I can say I did not read the small print when the ageplay rules were penned after the 2007 scandal. We just hoped the entire sordid affair was taken care of. The only child avatar I ever saw Mari in the forums. And I rationalized that away by convincing myself she never logged into SL anyway (lol). That was obviously naive. Head-in-the-sand Syndrome.

So now the rude awakening. For alot of SLers. And this IS going to effect your comfort zone eventually.

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Zindra is not about "Child avatars". Zindra is about "hiding the porn from imaginary investors".

You're making that up. Zindra is not "Adult only", Zindra is "'Adult Oriented' content permitted". There is a HUGE bloody difference there. What is so hard to grasp about that?

Yes, I remember you. That's why I asked you to THINK about it this time. But apparently you're not going to.

Until you're willing to actually think about it, and respond sensiebly to what people actually post, I'm going to treat you like a troll.

I agree with the gambling ban, because there's no such thing as "virtual gambling" when real money is involved. You want to have pretend gambling, then make your game machines give out Rare and Unusual Fishes.

The same could be said about your many purposefully obtuse, sarcastic, and argumentative posts in this thread. You have been treated with respect while you continuously belittle every argument that comes your way on this or that technicality. Your smug rebuttals posted in a flurry with little emotion or thought, just words. If anyone has trolled this thread, it would be you.

In the house I grew up in there were CHILDREN, real children, and adults having REAL sex, not simulated sex. And this was happening within a distance of *meters*, not *kilometers*.

And I'll bet it happened in YOUR house when you were a kid too.

This wasn't pretend stuff. This was real life.

If you honestly think someone bumping pixels a couple of KILOMETERS in the air above a cartoon kid avatar is worse than that, you're crazy.

Kya, I don't care what you do on your private sim, that is your business. Yes banning is harsh and I should clarify by saying if a child avatar is in an adult area they can be ARd.

I am not talking about running around the new continent scanning with my camera into peoples private estates. I don't care what you are doing. I am simply stating that in mature/adult public areas, be an adult avatar. As Lias put it, it is "unsettling" for people such as myself to have child avatars co-mingle with people like Milla who are Letting their "freak flag fly".

If this is true, and SL only allows adults to play.. (over 1 the why the hell make a new place?? hmm Hmm Hmm??

It is in truth an adult oriented game... and only adults "should" be in the game.

so a vertical seperation of lets say 500 meter (average hight of a skybox before buildhight was raised to 4096) is not enough? then how for do you want them appart for it not to be in aproximation of sex? 1 sim? 10 sims? a continent? a grid? it's a pretty large comfertzone if you are that paranoid, there was an exsample in the past of a kid av owning a parcel in a mainland mature sim with a litle house to live in, later someone moved in next door and setup a sex club, no rules where broken there, nobody had to move and there was no harm but still people tought the child av was wrong for living there, luckely LL disagrees with the complainers, proximety stops at the parcel boundery and in many cases even a lot sooner (a room is enough already for the rules)

people realy should start to lighten up, you are just making life hard on yourself when you scare yourself over what theoreticly can happen

You're upset with me, and all I've done is use some words that hurt your feelings.

I haven't restricted your behavior, I haven't cost you money, I haven't caused you any injury or pain.

You, on the other hand, are attempting to get people I care about banned from their homes, some of which they have paid significant amounts of money for. Can you perhaps understand WHY I might have been tempted to allow myself a little mild sarcasm?

What technicalities? Like "those aren't actual children", or "Zindra isn't Adult-Only", or "There will be PG parcels on Zindra", or "The ToS does not say toon kids can't be on adult land". Those aren't technicalities, those are fundamental to the whole argument. You keep ignoring them and brushing them aside, but every time you do they'll keep coming back.

It's not complicated, it's just wrong. Zindra is not "Adult only." It is "Adult permitted." Just as Mature isn't "Mature only." And that is not difficult to grasp, either.

Again, I have to wonder why folks are so intent on forcing Zindra landowners to give up their options--the same options that were present on Mature land before. If they're so intent on having a real "Adults ONLY" playground given over entirely to sex, they should buy their own sims, and then they can ban anybody with insufficiently engorged prims.

Zindra is not Red Light Center. That's not what LL has targeted for this continent, and they've made that abundantly clear since the beginning in all the policies: Adult content is permitted on Adult land; it is not required.

People who want the RLC experience are just in the wrong place. Utherverse will be happy to welcome them.

If the landowner has designated an area "adult only" or "mature only" then I'm in complete agreement. I don't go sticking my muzzle into Gorean sims, because I know they're human only. That's only polite.

But "Adult" doesn't mean "Adult only", and "Mature" doesn't mean "Mature Only".

If a toon kid is in the presence of someone who is "letting their freak flag fly", if by that you mean engaging in sexual or extremely violent activity, then they are breaking the ToS already and can be ARed, no matter what the region is rated. If there's no such activity taking place, then what are you complaining about?

Well I believe that LL needs to spell out that child avatars cannot be in Mature and Adult sims. If you want to go there WEAR ANOTHER FOLDER THAT HAS AN ADULT AVATAR IN IT. I do not understand why these child-avatar-wearing people are forcing this issue with Zindra. Seems fool-hearty.

Many of us misunderstood what LL was saying about Zindra. We assumed since we were being forced behind the morality firewall - that we would be there with Adult Content ONLY. Not just forced to move for no apparent reason.

Dear, that is what you need to worry about. We tried to warn you but you won't listen. This will not end well.
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Ok we can stop bashing each until the next grid crash, we can get on

*ding* go to your respective corners lol