Something to be Said about Gorean Life

The Point of my Post was not to flare tempers. The point was to get a respons to what I said. I am aware that my grammer is awful. I am in need of a spellcherkcer yes. I stood on a soapbox and made myself sound foolish. I was wrong for this. I will restate me Post. Perhaps I will get a better answears.


I was shocked to see the treatment of a female in a gorean sim. I fail to see the draw to some people to that kind of play. I find the domantion, rape, and abuse of women to be an awful thing. I submit this question, befor I submit it,I want to make it clear. First and For most I UNDERSTAND that it is a game any one at any time can leave. and that it is not rape in the true sense of the word. I am not agaist the Goreans or there style of roleplay.



I have worked for a number of years as a soical worker. I served in the US Navy as a officer attached to the Chaplains office. I am a rape consular in the town that I live in. I work with BOTH men and woman who have been abused in a sexual manner. Rape Fantasy and the roleplay of rape disturbs me. I see the results of such things in the real world. My question is this. Are there childrend in the world of Gor? If so are those Childrend also used for there sexual pleasure? If the gorean sims are willing to explore the domantion, rape, and abuse of woman, why are they so agaist letting some explore there fantasy of child rape, domanation, and abuse? After all it is Fantasy and a game were consecnting Adults engaging in roleplay? This is the question I ask.

What you see in SL is not always what you get in rl, but just so you know I am a slave in rl and enjoy that life with my wonderful loving husband. You may see it as weakness but it takes a brave and dedicated person to submit to someone you love, and also takes willingness to be controlled instead of the controller. SL has fantasies that can be rp'd that you would never think of doing in rl. Being a slave is not bad and for those who are against it and complaining about it are usually the ones who don't understand. And as Soh said, "try it. ... you might like it..." But remember what you mom or dad always said, "Don't knock it, till you try it" And a good Gorean Master does not do always what he wants with his slaves but also sees what they like and if they want to do it he allows it, such as rape rp. Love yas <Signs off to go see and spend time with her rl Master>


P.S.
I am a very happy person in game and out. I couldn't ask for a better Master/Husband so not every Gorean slave is depressed or sad

Dear me i havent played in sl long and all excuse me now for spelling and any other mistake.

can i say that anyone who is as disturbed as you are making out and would not be able to know the difference between fantasy and reality and fuse the two are not physically competent to really play any fantasy games. in sl we all fly so does that mean theres been an increase in people jumping off buildings or walking round dressed as cats, robots or other creatures.
just as life what people do and consent to in there own space is there choices either if they are giving it or taking it we are all able to make our own choices in life.should we ban dominatrix as they work the other way women with control or escorts who exploit .where would you stop i dont know any gors didnt even know about it till i read this mail but i thought that on sl u had to press an accept button to interact with anyone i find the comparison of the two to be more upsetting that you could even compare rl rapeto sl is prob more disturbing to somebody who as been in this situation then anything the goreons do with which both parties consent if somebody is so weak to be turned from sl to rl then nothing we say or do will help them they will learn by there own mistakes i believe in sl theres my fantasy my rl is completely seperate thats what makes SL SL and the reason most people play here if u start all this political correctness rubbish we might as well not bother rl brings already too much. this is my fun to be whatever and whoeve I CHOOSE

you shouldnt be posting in the foums any way......


When one is made a slave on Gor, they lose all the rights and connections they had in their past life. They are no longer seen as the person they were before, but rather are viewed much as a "human animal," and are treated as such. They do not decide their own fate, and are not expected to make their own decisions regarding their lives, as this is no longer theirs to choose. They do not so much as even possess the names they are called by, these being given and taken away as it pleases their owners. Their lives are subject to their owner's whim in a very real and tangible way. They do not "bargain" with men, nor do they place "limits" on their service, they simply do as they are told and do it when they are told, or they are swiftly, harshly, and effectively punished. A master may discipline or even destroy his property if he chooses, and the Laws of the various Gorean lands will not only not contest this, but will fully support it.

Masters in general, see slaves much in the same way the Law does. Gorean men do not seek to defend slave girls or protect them, other than what would be obvious concerning the preservation of their personal property or that of another. Such would be done for the sake of the owner though, not so much the slave. The slave in itself is seen as property, an item whose sole purpose is to bring pleasure to the owner and/or comfort to his life.



You have no right you or no more than a simple chaor .. you give up every thing you are personal property

I think I'm gonna be sick. Obviously you need therapy if you think all women are weaklings. You men make women like myself want to puke.






More women have been raped abused killed in the name of depravity unassociated with Gor. I was raped and beaten, left to die IRL by a deacon of a church I went to so STFU with this stupidity.



I have NEVER been treated with anything less than respect by ALL the Gorean Males I have ever had the pleasure of meeting IRL. They are NOT all sick twisted immoral jackasses like you say they are. I've been mistreated more by nonGoreans in my life both IRL AND on SL. Again, get to know the subject before shooting off your mouth.



Ok so does this mean that all christians that are openly christian should stop because it offends someone? or gays or interracial couples or Democrats?? Get over yourself already. Don't like it? DON'T PLAY.

In any case, I'll summarize:

- Gor is a fantasy novel series made by a twisted freak. A nobody, and now people follow his ideals. It fits them. Mostly men are the ones who push it onto women, saying "it's how it says in our 'Bible' (actually in their 'bibles')!" Women submit since they are either weak, or probably enjoy it. Most of the females who are into Gor have been molested or raped in their real life. I think Gors are fine, just keep it out of the publics eye please. Thank you.

- Gor in SL is harmless, they are ROLEPLAYERS, nothing more than geeks. They have no real power over the females there. It's harmless. If they can't do it in SL, they'd do it in IRC channels, MSNs etc.

- Not all goreans are "deeply into it". Most think it's just a "side" of them, they explore it and play with it. That's it. Not all goreans take it to the soul. Also note that bondage isn't Gor, and submissive / domnative isn't Gor. Gor is it's own path.

- Gor is not real. It's like Peter Pan and Neverneverland. All fiction, sick fiction by John Norman the author.

- If you don't like Gor, don't go to their SIMs!! Stay away!! If you see them roleplay their slavery games elsewhere, you can report it as abusive and harassing behaviour. We have rules and all should abide by them.

- We are all humans and we all have a value in this life. Everyone should be treated equally, no matter what. Goreans don't, that's because they have their own beliefs. Leave them alone if you disagree with them, simple as that. We should respect them and let them have their fun.



Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor

Gor Sites:
http://www.worldofgor.com/gor.asp
http://www.gor-on-earth.com/
http://www.geocities.com/gorean_community/gorone.html

Note most of the sites above are not objective. They defend Gor as some kind of religion. "We are right!" and also note goreans tend to lie aswell. They do NOT want you to know that it's all just for getting women to be slaves at start. They basically lure people to their cult (yes, goreans ARE A CULT).

Sorry for my bad english. English is my 2nd language. And note some stuff written here are purely my own oppinions. Feel free to comment, goreans. I wanna hear from them the most.[/QUOTE]


To sum it up, you are an uneducated asshat, propogating obtuseness where ever you roam. Thanks for dimming the light of education/ tolerance. We needed another bullet in the horse.

Never raped, never tolerated being abused, not depressed, not suicidal, and I dare you to try to "subdue me with crap". Lost Newcomb is just plain wrong. But, I will admit I expected to find that when I came to Gor myself. Nope, we have about the same percentage of depressed people as anyplace else.

Elli Sullivan

Yes.

Rare case?

The other case is of two slaves in the same IRC community I used to hang around. These two slaves were of the same Master, but came at different times. Their only other relationship was that they lived together.

The Master was not happy with his ex-slave. Thus he wrote her death sentence and gave it to his current slave. Both slaves were men btw but RP Gorean kajira.

The slave was instructed by this Master who lived in Denmark (?!) to do the following (cut and paste)

The above were all done, the guy lost a lot of blood and died. Slave who did this was put in prision, but the stupid Gorean Master who commanded this crime was never caught, he probably is laughing at what happend.

And I'm sure your not aware of the Gorean cult's that are being caught over in Europe and Canada. Some of whom are also in SL and IRC.

On my story archive I have the following rule Aslong as its fantasy, its okay, fiction, dark desires, rape etc anything goes aslong as its fiction. same goes for my online game aslong as there is two adult people who have ooc (out of character) consented to, then anything goes.


My opinion on goreans. qualified by the following points and also includes some of my opinions on most of the Masters and Mistress's i've met on SL
12 years online, offline D/s knowledge.
9 years running an online adult game (mud)
9 Years of running a Erotic fiction/fantasy story site
6 months as a gorean slave.


Gor is based on a fictional book a set of books, its the D.s equivalent of startrek fans, its fine in roleplay but its just roleplay.

The problem comes when those in Gor believe they are some elite branch of the D/s community and use gor teachings as a RL set.

Gor attracts the weakest of Masters by its nature, A Master in Gor doesn't haveto earn trust of a girl, or prove himself, according to the teachings of Gor they are Masters and all rules and laws in Gor defend that to the hilt.

Also the weakest of Masters need a slave with no will of her own to compete with him.


Now this is just sadly from my experience. there may be some non ego non masachists out there.

I don't fit into the Mainstream D/s society of SL or online. my views are unusual.

I believe a submissive, slave, pet is a very strong person, who gives themselves by choice, who chooses there Master or Mistress and in doing so gives that person the greatest gift anyone can give another person.

A Master in turn should spend his entire life appreciating that gift and looking after that pet/slave/sub's health and wellbeing.

When you become a Master you are not only thinking for yourself of looking after yourself, but taking on the ultimate responsibility of the life and wellbeing of another person, it can be alot of work.

Alot don't get this, especially in Gor, the whole premise in gor reduces a girl to an object, to cattle, which is fine in RP but not in Real life.

About 16 months ago I took a break from Online and did some interesting RL stuff.

About a year ago I met my current wonderful submissive, she is my friend, companion, lover, submissive, slave, pet, her name is Zsuzsanna Raven and I couldn't be happier.

When I first met her, she had a really bad Master who I can't name due to SL forum rules.

I explained to her that D/s is something we explore together, a partnership.
Don't call me Master unless i've earned it and you chose to
Don't kneel for me or follow any of the silly formalities unless you decide i've earned that.

Submission begins and ends in the heart and mind, no amount of kneeling or talking with capital letters Master master sub Sub, it doesn't Matter.

I want a girl with a brain, intelligence and her own Mind, who kneels for me because she chooses every day, who one minute we can be building (okay okay she builds I snuggles and molest her), next minute flying about in our car crashing into everything, and next she slips into a kneeling position infront of me a look of love on her face and I think WOW! im iso lucky!!

Also Honest Masters who actually respect there charges seem a rarity online as in real life.

A good tip, find a Master who has been a slave/sub, A master who can't let go and try the other side is nothing more than a control freak, if your Master has tried the other side, seen it from your side, there is sometimes less chance of them hurting you. its not always the case but a good marker.

Bizzare island Owned by Myself and Wife(real life) (Mistress to zsupet)

I am not against Gor or other Masters and Mistress persay, sadly my experience of them is what im going on, there are some good Masters and Mistress out there, and some good Gor, but its rare sadly from my experience.

A true rp should always keep it to that and never tell anyone where they are, and anything that a slave does not do is punnished in SL not in rl, one bad apple spoils the whole batch. Yes someone can let it go too far, but that is why there are different name in SL not rl names no we are not sick, if anything there is a beauty to Gorean that not everyone sees, it is not about using women or turning them into slaves, but the beauty of the relationship between Master and slave. And yes if you are depressed this should not be a place for you, lost a friend cause she could not tell the difference between rl and game. But not everyone is like that.

Completely agree, couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks for this post.

Edit: ROFL my friend (merchant in port cos) is saying they are telling slaves and Masters to go and vote this thread lol.

This from someone who says she is both a christian and a vampire who drinks blood real life *ponders*

Kindly tell me what woman finds it fun to log into SL and be put in a kennel for 8 hours straight, forbidden to talk, forbidden to move. They are also instructed RL not to move away from the computer. They are told that the Master or handler would IM them anytime to see if they are near there or not.

This happens in your own Port Cos.

Tell me how fun that is? Tell if this is totally sane women playing a game? What is the point of playing SL with above?

I've had nothing but bad experiences with the Gorean lifestyle, I guess it's not for me? I don't think Gor as a fantasy is a bad thing, I’ve heard of far worse, but what you have to understand is - a lot of very immature men, who lack self confidence, frequent the Gor Sims in SL a lot. Not all of them are bad (many are good), but a lot of what they do or how they act reflects very badly, so anyone with sensibilities such as yourself, who feel quite horrified at what they do, will react. I honestly think you need to take a step back and not get too involved in thinking about it.

To be perfectly honest, in answering your question, I think the main reason they don’t allow children AV's into Gor sims is because they are afraid of the public backlash.

I mean, can you imagine how some people would react to seeing a force collar and rape of a pretend child, even though they know in their hearts it’s not real? For those that think raping a woman is any more sick than raping a child, you’re wrong, and those happy to fantasise over raping grown women will no doubt be susceptible to the fantasy of raping children.

The whole concept of forced slavery does not start at some arbitrary age of 16, 18 or 21 (whatever your law is). As this is a fantasy, I personally feel that whatever these people do is totally fine and not anyone’s right to interfere. When this transfers into real life, that is a whole different story, as most would agree.

Edit: Didn't read the whole thread, then saw Lost Newcomb's post above and I have to say, I agree completely, well said!

Um dear, this is not necessary. If those girls would do like mew did, they wouldn't be so miserable I was in Port Cos a total of 36 hours before leaving. It's NOT that hard.

First I'd like to say ad hominem.

Women are not weak and I did not state so. Femininity my friend. Femininity. Not weakness.



ad hominem
I am sorry to hear that. If you think I mean Gor is the source of all evil in this world then you have misunderstood me greatly. I only stated facts and oppinions. I'm also not christian at all if you think that.



ad hominem
I stated: Not all goreans take the authors ideals that seriously. But Gor is Gor, and Gor states that all women are not worthy of speech, not worth of almost anything but to be sex toys, SLAVES of their Masters. And again, I do not think Gor is the source of all the evil things in this world. You misunderstand my post.



ad hominem

Yes. Keep things to yourself. If you are christian, jewish, buddish, atheist, agnostic, muslim etc. it's your personal business. If you want to let people know what you are, so be it. By all means you should shout about "I'm gorean and proud of it!". But there's a difference between letting people know what you believe and making them witness what you believe in.

Gor is still pretty unknown but it is condemned by most of the society. I'm not saying "shut up and stop talking", what I am saying is you should think about people who do not condone with your beliefs. People who tend to express themselves in the name of "pride" tend to forget the other people who need to watch it.



ad hominem

Thank you for your time.

With all the prejudism in these forums it's no wander their being closed. I hope the trolls are happy for wrecking this "would have been" fine community.

Wow! It really does surprise me how many people here think of themselves as moral elitist. In second life I play a... kajirus (male slave) gasp..... yes a male Gorean slave to a FEMALE none the less! OH my God stop the presses, not all slaves in SL Gor are females....?? Yes it is true, slave to a Panther Girl, anyway.... (read up on this stuff before you judge)

1) No, I am NOT depressed, and no depression did not draw me into SL Gor. Actually I am college senior, happy with life as much as anyone (well if you want to help pay for my student loans I would be even more happy! LOL)

2) No, my Mistresses in SL does NOT try to get me to become her slave in real life. Look I have always enjoyed roleplaying and simulation games, I have even played dungeons and dragons in real life, oh.... and to dispel another myth even though I played dungeons and dragons in RL, I also played football in high school and enjoy sports, WOW imagine that? In reality Gor in SL has been an extension of my love of roleplaying games, when I have some free time I really do not think there is anything wrong with immersing myself in a fantasy, and I accent FANTASY world.

3) I also agree that adults are responsible for their own behavior, thus if someone takes this SL roleplay in their real life, well then that was their own mutual decision. Look when I have some free time I sit down at my computer and roleplay my role as a male slave to my Mistress and other Mistresses within out Panther camp, just as when I sit down to play Doom, Madden Football, or Sim City. When I play those games I like to get immersed but NEVER, and I mean NEVER do I really think I am the guy shooting daemons from hell like in Doom, or the real owner of a NFL team when I play Madden, nor do I think I am GOD when I build a city in Sim City. Nor do I go out and try to shoot people after playing any kind of first person shooter game. I do not know why this is such a hard concept for people to wrap their mind around, if someone does not know the difference between fantasy and reality that is the problem of the person.

4) Some of us here really need to get off our high horse and stop our fantasy bigotry. Even if there are people that live a Gorean lifestyle in RL and come to SL to play, there is nothing they can do to force a person to live as a Gorean in RL, just as a Catholic in SL can create a SL church, though they cannot force anything to become Catholic.

Lets all remember this is a VIRTUAL world, where the morals you hold in reality are not going to hold in a VIRTUAL FANTASY world!

Oh and for the people saying that all Goreans are sick and need help, you worry me more than anyone else, as you are the people that remind others that they are sinners, and do not live by their religion and need to be “saved”

Except it's not virtual. Guess you weren't watching the BBC news when they showed that house in some small town with a Gorean Master being arrested over suspected abduction and rape. Of course the slave said it wasn't real, but it sure was reality. Gorean was born in fictional books and taken into D/s long before SL was born, get a grip!

HI BROCK!!!!

Nicely put.

I think it's important you laid that out for people to see the other form of D/s.

I think all the goreans should take some notes from this persons post.

Great post.

And there are murders for real too. I wonder if they come about after a stint in Jessie?

btw, D/s has been here as long as life itself.

Yes it was a great post, just trying to catch up and filter out all the rubbish. That person made a great point, which I alread said in my first post in this thread

A point
1)its only online they can tp turn off anytime
WRONG
I've seen it happen in gor on SL and on IRC its insiduos some and I say some, they loose the ability to turn off
I've also seen what happens when a Kajira tp's out of a gorean sim, a friend did it 12 months ago, she had been gor for about 6 months but things got too heavy, so she wanted to leave, they killed her off in roleplay when she tped out (after much talking and them ordering her not too) then all her kajiira friends put her on mute she was dead to them, 90% of her friends made in that gor sim ceased the day she "turn off anytime"


If she wasn't depressed before she was after that.

On my own game if anyone wants to D/s or anything like that, I take both of the into a room, sometimes i'll even call them up at home and talk it out, get a sense for there maturity, there idea of D/s, then give or refuse my permission of a D/s relationship on my game, okay some may see it as a break of privacy but its kepy my comunity safe.

Yes there are, shock horror. Whats your point? He said this was a virtual fantasy, I was pointing out it was not just that - fantasy migrates to reality. The Gorean lifestyle is a reality for some people.