Something to be Said about Gorean Life

Ok fine, if you really need another word, substitute slavery with submission. But the examples of slavery you are thinking of and the slaves who exist in BDSM and Gor are two different concepts. Want more words? Consensual. Roleplay.

[/B] Ok so you've shown again you know how to cut and paste, hows your reading comprehension?

My D/s relationship is not involuntary, it is consensual.
Things are just fine in my head thank you.
The only time I don't know which end is up is when I've had a few too many margaritas at my favorite restaurant.

and you have shown us all how to Use the Quote button as a short cut key lol

and i have Arthritis and cant type that good...... So sue me this is why i do this

My personal favourite is "Does your mother still cry when you try to f*ck her?"

I believe it was aimed at Michael Savage.

the consent thing is just a way BS word ... sayiny im not going to liable for my actions nor who i hurt along the way .....

Like As a teenager .. It's ok Until i get caught ,,, This so unjustfiable

dont hold water to me

Uh, no, it doesn't.

"Consent" means "we both have made a choice to indulge in potentially risky activities in full awareness of the potential reactions." It doesn't mean "yeah, the bitch asked for it", despite the use of "she said yes".

If you have a problem with consenting adults, that's all on you - not on those of us who actually prize it highly.

Having a problem with the concept of consenting adults is *really* odd to me.

No, consent doesn't mean not liable. To consent means to give permission. It's actually the opposite of what you said. To consent to something is also to take responsibility for it. I consent to being a submissive to my partner and I take responsibility for my part in the relationship.

Consensual romantic, intimate, or sexual relationships are of concern when one of the parties has institutional responsibility for or authority over the other. Consensual relationships in this context can compromise the integrity of the exercise , create the potential for abuse of the authority or cause problems



Integrity can be compromised performance of other individuals with whom they have a consensual relationship. The interest in the consensual relationship can impair the judgment required for the exercise of the institutional responsibility or authority.

Power may be abused within a consensual relationship.

It may lead to abuse therefore it is wrong to do it at all? Seriously?

Sex may lead to problems like diseases and pregnancies, etc, so lets stop everyone from having sex.

You know what, dating can be dangerous. There are some weird people out there. Let's just stop dating and go back to prearranged marriages.

Oh no wait, often prearranged marriages led to abuse. Nope can't do that.

In fact now that we really think about it, there are a lot of abusive marriages too. Ok no more marriage, it could lead to abuse. Can't have it.

Or you know what, we could try a really unique approach here. We could just not judge things we aren't a part of and know nothing about. Wow wouldn't that be a novel concept?

Forgive me if I'm sounding a little fed up, but I've pretty much reached the stage with you of just saying... Who the hell are you to judge my relationship style?


Here's a concept you're going to have a really hard time with. See, I'm actually the one in my relationship with the most power. I am the submissive. I gift my partner with my submission. It is a gift I can take away any time I choose. Before during and after the giving of this gift, I lay out the rules. I decide how far it goes, what I am consenting to and what I am not.

This is the thing people don't understand but it's true. In a traditional healthy D/s relationship it is the submissive who has all the power, lays the foundation for the relationship and takes all the responsibility for her own submission and for her own life.

In other words whether my Master is spanking me, watching me mop his floor, or giving me flowers and candy.... everything he does is because I want it, it pleases me as much as him.

So before you decide I need to be shown the error of my ways, that I am in danger and need to be saved.... let me just save you the trouble. I am happy. I am fine. My life is a good life. There is no victim here.

Of course it can - any relationship. It can also be abused within a nonconsensual relationship (and I think that nonconsensual relationships are inherently so.)

I'm not sure, precisely, what your point is. What are you suggesting?

I don't have enough tea in the world for this post. It seriously made me boggle.

So,, what you are saying is, you don't believe in Consent, that two adults are NOT capable in your opinion of Choosing to do something you personally don't agree with?

:igh:; How does one even try to argue with megalomania like this?

Angel.

**Gorean female starts thread with ambiguous survey and a (fake) judgmental opinion -- I say fake because she bashed the Gorean lifestyle and RP but she is a Gorean herself...

**A person posts their opinion that anyone taking part in any lifestyle even similar to Gor is a sick puppy and should be shot on sight

**A different person posts their opinion that the other person has a seriously wrong point of view and they obviously possess only enough reliably firing brain synapses to continue breathing

:::EVERYONE TAKES SIDES:::

and 28 pages of posts later, it still boils down to the fact that some heifer thought it would be funny to see what would happen if she posted some inflammatory remarks about Gor on the forums to get people stirred up. Wonder if the people in all those Gor groups she belongs to know that she's been having a few laughs at their expense?

Reposting a few of her opening comments just to demonstrate my point:

"I was shocked to see the treatment of a female in a gorean sim. I fail to see the draw to some people to that kind of play. I find the domantion, rape, and abuse of women to be an awful thing." -- to reiterate, this came from a woman belonging to several Gor groups.

"I am not agaist the Goreans or there style of roleplay." -- well, that's pretty obvious since she's Gorean herself

"Rape Fantasy and the roleplay of rape disturbs me." -- I'm so sure that's why she adopted the SL lifestyle she has now - because that way of life repulses her so much. Come to think of it, her obvious contradictions indicate to me that she's most likely in need of serious pharmaceuticals and a few sessions of electro-shock therapy. I mean in RL.

"My question is this. Are there childrend in the world of Gor? If so are those Childrend also used for there sexual pleasure?" -- this was obviously meant to elicit a reaction, since she is Gorean, shouldn't she already know the answer to this question?

"If the gorean sims are willing to explore the domantion, rape, and abuse of woman, why are they so agaist letting some explore there fantasy of child rape, domanation, and abuse?" -- I'm not even entirely sure I understand what she's trying to ask...did she get ticked off because it was actually her that was wanting to explore her fantasies about the sexual exploitation of children and she was prevented from doing so on a Gorean sim? Notice that she asks why the Gors won't allow child rape, domination and abuse to occur on their sims - has she actually participated in something unspeakable and she was tossed from Gorean land?

Is this thread actually her crying out to the world of the Second Life forums that she is a disturbed individual and needs help before she acts on her impulses in RL?

I have really enjoyed reading the posts from everyone because this has been a spirited discussion - however, maybe it's time to take a look at the intentions and purpose behind creating this thread -- look at the source? We're all just giving her what she wants by posting in this conversation and perpetuating her blatantly bogus "concerns".

Please let's let this thread die the ugly death that it deserves.

You don't bother, you just chalk it up to another case of someone who heard from someone who heard from someone, who read somewhere that something bad happened during an activity they do not understand is bad, so that means that that activity must be bad! And, "I know what's best for everyone based on my one personal view of the world!"

The main reason I don't read zephria's posts is thus
1)Overly long winded
2)cut and paste, she has no original word or idea, no ability to write full sentences she can only copy and paste from dictionaries or other posts.

Slavery takes many forms (notice im using my own words and my own brain not a dictionary).

The kind of forced slavery political, enviromental and physical superiority in real world I am total against, I think any kind of right minded person would be against that.

Roleplay, fictional, fantasy slavery is fine, its not real, its the same as enjoying a first person shooter where you blow of the head of the oposing forces, its the same as running down the pedestrian in GTA, its not real NO real person got hurt.

Blurred lines, it is a comunity, and Masters responsibility that if they are FULLY roleplaying Gorean or roleplaying any kind of traumatic fictional, that you take the time to find out and make reasonably sure that your roleplay partner whether she be a slave or not, is upto it, and you keep on with that.

One of the main ideals I hold too when im roleplaying is to have time outs, to talk in IM's make sure its not getting too much, because roleplay is suposed to be fun, yes it can be serious but it hasto be enjoyable.


Now
REAL PLAY and i've been to munches (events held rl by the D/s Bdsm comunity in different parts of the country.)Slavery does happen but mostly its by choice, by that I mean a formal contract witnessed and signed is drawn up and while its not legally binding both parties put down what they expect. I've met some wonderful real life Masters who take on girls for 12 months before collaring them, and i've met some brilliant intelligent women with full careers in goverment who when they get home, they like to completely let go and not even having to think.


Now the girl i'm with at the moment who is mine and my wifes pet, will some day come live with us, we don't roleplay anymore everything we do on SL is genuine and honest except for some fun Kiti AV's Mew!!, My focus is on her health and welbeing, she will tell you herself how I dote on her, it isn't about sex, after all i'd need to have one hell of a long walking stick to reach her in another country lol, or praps its the safest of safe sex, its a relationship, honest and caring, I will literally do anything for her.

The problem with Gor and this is from experience not assumption NOT all goreans, i've explored and visited alot of gorean sims bothe as a Male AV Master and as a female av char.

Gor caters to the weakest of Masters, the most mentally disturbed, for the girls with the lowest self worth, for violence and ALOT take it far deeper than roleplay.

When I took on Zsu, I accepted her for who she was, as A friend, a lover, a companion, it was a while before she called me Master or knelt before me, collaring her was a wonderful experience BUT I had no rules, no laws no tenents to fall back on, no community to ostracise her if she disobeyed, no cage to put her in, no whip, no shackles..

A prim is an object, its easy to rotate it, mold it, torture it, recolor it, the weakest of Masters need slaves like that, no challenge sex objects, servants., these are the kind of Masters AND Mistress who continually batter there slaves self worth causing great harm to boost there own weak ego.

Zsu can kick my ass at building, shopping and she has a much better sense of clothing than me I let her dress my AV and i'm always amazed at what she comes up with, she also GASP can handle a weapon in SL as good as alot of people I know...

This doesn't threaten my Masculinity, doesn't make me feel less, she is a whole person with amazing strengths, and this person has given herself to me by choice, and the wonderful thing is she isn't broken, she is herself, she has a spirit, a mind (and a hot! AV) she submits to me at many different levels far beyond words.



***Cautionary note***
People are saying its just a game, you can turn it of, you see that X in the corner, well then honestly answer me these questions:

1)Did a friend ever lie to you online and it hurt like it did real life ?
2)If your friend or lover online had really bad news did you feel empathy ?
3)Has someone on SL ever made you laugh or cry ?

And when you pressed the X in the corner did it all go away like magic making you feel happy and fluffy ?

We are not as shielded as we like to make out, I have made friends online that are as close to me or closer than someone living next door, online friendships and relationships if they are honest and genuine even if only on one side can be far more powerful that someone you meet real life, the reason is simple, straight from day one online its mental, its minds, its not physical, your touch, smell, hearing are all bypassed your talking, typing direct mind to mind and if you take that a stage further, you can become so engrossed.. how many of us have sat at a pc so engrossed in a conversation or situation we don't hear someone in rl asking us a question, or it fades out ?

Now take that into a D/s or BDSM relationship where most I hope will agree that submission and enslavement doesn't come from the collar, the kneel, the bondage shackles but from actually inside, as a real life slave once told me, "I once went to a guys house he had a 12,000$ dungeon custom made, amazing equipent, leather and rubber outfits, and he was pretty cute, BUT I left after 2 days because he wasn't a Master, he couldn't touch me inside here (touching her heart) or here(touching her head) it is actually easier in the wrong situation to get yourself bound to someone, enslaved to someone, to bypass your normal defences, emotional, mental bondage or control is just as real if not MORE real that someone handcuffing you.


some will say it couldn't happen to me..
some will say and laugh that brainwashing etc doesn't work.

Send me a im in game and i'll tell you my old friends experiences (will not release names or anything like that), she is a worker at a house of refuge in ontario she deals with the end results of both online and offline mental domination and it does work and is dangerous, yes its rare and very few can truly do it.

The silly thing is the last comment made reitterating one of her posts isnt really exploited in SL at all. There are age players and they do sometimes partake in sexual encounters with an adult avatar but as stated and i'll use the submissive has the power point of view here. Its the child avatar/age player with the power in the fantasy. There is no exploitation of any child at all in any RP in SL unless an underage person comes on SL in which case they lied.

I just think alot of people are bringing up things to stir up trouble before the forums go down and really have no actual thoughts on the concept at all and are just doing it to instill problematic issues from a couple of people that really have no concept of the RP community as a whole and still post ignorant opinionatic thoughts on the matter. I'm not a member of any rp community though i do familiarize myself with them and have been involved in quite a few in the past. Well i suppose to a degree i am i roleplay that i am someones mother but its non sexual its just one of those family rp things that alot of people partake in with close friends .

Well someone please come and save me I am enslaved in the worse way! I must work for the bread on my table!!!
In my new order, I will be given all monies and allowed to have all the shoes I want No slavery to work!! No pretend slavery!!!






Also if any of you knew what slavery actually was you wouldn't sully the severity of it by this bullshit.... -.-

I would Cut copy or paste a long conversation ... just some urls ... to what i have found


http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm



http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm#slavemaster

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/06/07/barrel.bodies/index.html

http://gornz.tripod.com/

http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm#fbi



http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm#personal_info


http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm#gors_trying_to_discredit

http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm#tell_the_truth

http://www.cyberwolfman.com/awtgor.htm#3rdperson

Read or not it your choice

*peeks in*

Wow, this is still going?

Hello, Mistress! Hi, troll!

god forbid alex, lets not bump this thing back up lol

But it was already on the first paaaage!

Thanks Zephria for the links.
And it takes one HELL of a lot to plough through all of that.......BUT sadly, it again consists of a viewpoint.... and when the site creator says; quote:

"There's a lot more I can tell you about the gor worlds, or at least, the one I learned most about (GorWorld), but I won't go into it in detail here, or at least not yet. Again, it's best to assume that the conditions and the people are the same in all the gor worlds, until you have had lots of study on it first, and that time could probably best be used somewhere (almost anywhere) or on anything else, like making and spending time with true friends. "

There's that favourite old word again.... assume. I'm sorry, but those pages read like exactly what they are. Namely one person's VIEWPOINT.

I thought I'd add one of my OWN links. Perhaps THESE people are right too.

http://www.elvissightingbulletinboard.com/SightingLog.shtml

First off please read these threads yourself. In all honesty you linked to them but did you honestly read them? He is spewing the same stuff other people are and tying fictional consentual role play in a virtual world to real slavery. It ties into stuff and the article up there that is from the news is just absurd in a few ways as is the tripod link. First off the news article lets go into that.... The guy obviously had problems in real life before he started role playing and likely would of ended up doing something anyway. What he did was offline meetups with women interested in sadomasochism which by right is consentual when they objected he snapped IE something is wrong with him and this would of happened either way when someone said no to him in a sexual encounter.

Thats not a case of online roleplay thats a case of someone snapping with some psychological disorder, hell its not even real life role play at that point it may of started as such but he had problems not the community. Also that has nothing to do with slavery. Another thing i will point out is the defination of it. The combination of sadism and masochism, in particular the deriving of pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting or submitting to physical or emotional abuse. Except he took it to far it was consentual but he snapped when they wouldnt let him photograph them which by the way had nothing to do with the roleplay itself they said no he basically beat them to death.

By rights bdsm and S&M are a bit harsh but by no means is the things partaken in meant to kill someone. There have been cases of it going to far but not in the manner in which that person took it. This is usually why there are places to read up on it and people to talk to to learn the right and wrong way to do things. The tripod link is absurd from the title itself and has nothing to do with the word it stated. Ok so they dont like certain people on their land big deal you have that with the non role playing community as well in SL.

In fact its not the gors that you see attacking furs and stuff in their own sims its normal people that just seem to have a problem with it and think it'd be fun to mess with them. The tripod article from the title almost seems to be infering a set of racism but then everyone has groups they dont like that they wouldnt want on their land so are we all by definition then racist? This cyberwolfman claims its not a hate site but it very well seems to be and he is quite misinformed if he thinks about it along these lines.

I highly doubt he was involved in the community at all from the sounds of it and if he was he is overdramatising some of the bad eggs like some attempts on this thread have made. Again as stated above he went to some world in active worlds and "observed" things. To the latent person Gor may seem a bit off to someone who actually knows something about it they realize its consenting and that these women involved in it that are treated harshly or badly or whatever want to be treated that way and know the community full well before they join. If they didnt research it before joining that is their fault and alot of things are explained to a person before hand.

The threads against it are points of view from the outside world and people that got involved in gor and didnt know what it was but might of thought hey im into that. I've seen the latter happen many times people getting involved without any knowledge of it at all and i have even warned a few that they wouldnt like it based on their personality.

Most of the protests are just way to broad as well and could be applied elsewhere other then RP and if you start targeting those specific things in protest you may as well protest human nature in general.

YAWNZZZZZZZZ... this again? next topic plz!

It was dead, but nooooo... you had to bounce it.

Sh*tstirrer.

Fixed. (well, almost anyway)