Something to be Said about Gorean Life

I never once said that.



You know what? I don't think you even know what my concerns are. I don't think you have really read what I've said. I think I've been talking to the wind. But if you think you know what they are, go ahead and list them. While you're add it, go ahead and quote me wherever I said something should be banned.



My guess is that you just made a bad guess. They were quite serious.



They're still there.

Thats because the word slave outside of Gor is tossed around freely as well. These people are sub's usually not actual slaves and that still doesnt mean that they are trying to recruit the people it just means they frown on other Slave lifestyles. Now as to the last bit...... That really depends on the Sim. A strict RP sim is taken very seriously and isnt an abusive area for the gorean actions. However some of the looser sims do have alot of people that claim to be gor but really arnt. The gor community isnt abusing it itself its wanna-be's and things along those lines from the normal community that are abusing it. They say they are gor do bad things and end up giving the community a bad name.

i'd say about 55% of the goreans are reasonable but the other 45% are usually not really even Gorean. Mind you there are alot of people here who are likely confusing some D/S stuff with Gor as well. The thing is you often just hear about the problematic people in a community. You dont hear about the sensible gorean's because they usually keep more to themselves and stay in the Gor sims. You have the "wanna-be's" running around claiming to be Gor that do bad things and those are usually the things you hear about so most people that dont know alot of sensible Gor's think that the community is bad. Its still an opinion of the community though corvus and if we just shut down a community because some people that truly arnt involved in the actual community itself decided to slander the name and teachings of the community then we may as well start banning when i form an opinion that everyone other then me is evil and should thusly be extacited from the world of SL.

*Buzzer* Wrong answer. Some people are just sick and twisted and don't deserve to breathe. I'm not talking about Gor because I haven't actually seen their group for myself. But saying that you simply shouldn't look or not take part and never judge is wrong.

Most definitely, some things should be judged to call attention to how heinous they are. I've seen quite a bit of really sick crap in SL that revolves around gruesome sexual torture. Mature areas or not, I believe images like these should be banned because these things are actually taking place in the real world. Some people really do get off on these types of things and displaying these images only encourages them to commit a similar act against an unwilling victim in the real world. And we're not talking about consent here. They wouldn't receive any gratification if the acts were welcomed. Case in point: the "BTK" (Bind, Torture, and Kill) killer.

Alot act serious around others as to not draw alot of attention to their bad actions. As i said you likely ran into alot of bad people. And cool down miss i never was directing it at you but thats been the reasoning behind this thread in general. Your taking stuff that is generalized and directing it straight to yourself and getting a bit heated over it. I know that you have concerns about Gor but I'm sure you have concerns about many other things to. The fact that they are still there likely means that they just havent been reported to the people in charge of a certain area as well. People have been starting threads as of late saying such and such a thing should be banned.

This thread started out trying to do it by trying to tie simulated RP Rape Scenes to it. Before this it was targeting age players saying that they were pedophiles or child molesters and thusly should be banned. Not all of that directed at you but you took at that it was. What im saying your welcome to have your concerns everyone is. But why not just leave the community alone if your have those concerns? I mean I have my own thoughts on Gor but i have Gor friends both on the master/mistress end and also the slave end and they are very good people if you get to know them. I leave the community itself be and we dont make it into stuff about Gor.

I dont agree with Gor anymore then some of the folks here but i dont think i need to belittle them either as it never helps in any situation at all that can arise.

Ummm pardon? Sexual Torture should be banned. It happens in real life (bdsm and other things) You dont need to be involved with it and saying you simply shouldnt look or not take part and dont judge it actually is the right thing to say. No one is forcing you to partake in anything in SL you play it as you see fit and if these people want to RP some sexual fantasies that involved violence it is their business not yours in the least bit. Unless they are in a public place that is not meant for that rubbing it in your face their is no problem. BTK Killer isnt a good efense for trying to ban material. Binding and torturing can be part of bdsm and bondage/sadomasochism in real life but its a controlled thing in that sense.

This person the BTK Killer has a psychological problem that made him snap while doing it the first time and he likely got off on killing the girls in this method but thats a rare case which rarely happens. As stated earlier less violence actually occurs in the rp/bdsm community then it does in a house with Physical Spousal Abuse and things of that sort going on. RP is about enacting on things and if you find things. Also displaying images wont incite anything unless the person has a predisposition to do so which would mean they already have a problem. Thats the same as the video games will turn us into killers defense and it just doesnt work and can be disproved by anyone qutie easily.

I've played games where i've killed people for a real real long time. I was trained in martial arts and other things and could very easily do it but i dont have a predisposition of murder in a deep rooted psychological problem that i'd go out and off someone from seeing an image or 3d image or anything of someone killing someone else. Your defense doesnt work on the grounds that images never made someone go out and murder someone. Thats a psych problem and if you seek help before its to late its unlikely that it will happen. The fact that the people dont have to see the images is still there. No one is forcing them to look and a person with a predisposition that sought help likely leads a controlled lifestyle and would avoid those places.

The images you refer to are often bondage/bdsm thing and people do get off on it and it is a real life community. That doesnt make them a murderer by any means.

Sorry, I must have been confused by how you used my name and all.



Nope. Everyone knows, nobody does anything.

You sound a bit naive to me. What's your experience in the Gor sims?

If you've been there at all, you know how there's rules for slaves in every sim. Sometimes rather elaborate ones. And there's often mandatory slave classes, too. But rules for masters or, god forfend, classes for them? Hell no. Interestingly, I had a person come into my store not an hour ago looking for a manual for masters. I told her it sounds like a great idea and to let me know if she finds one.

Slaves are regulated to the teeth, but you'll find no such regulation -- or better yet, education -- for masters. When you start talking about controling aspects of another person, you're playing with psychological fire. Gor sims would do well to start educating themselves about such matters, and learn how to look for the warning signs of such personalities.

And about those bad agents -- you're so wrong when you assume they'll disappear. Well, you're half right. They disappear and pop up again in the next sim down the road. And the next. And the next. I think the group of sim administrators should do much, much more to police their own. Got caught being emotionally abusive to someone in Sim A? Well, you're no longer welcome in Sim B, either.

To my knowledge, at least when I was there, no such thing existed.



Because you know why? I think it could be a really cool rp world if people there cared enough to clean up their act a little. I miss it sometimes. I wish it was a place I could go back to. I wish it would become a place I would feel good to be in again.

Rember in sl That what they use the Welcome areas for ... to prey on the Noobs ... Then People Complian about noobs being rude i would be too ....

When i fisrt started Sl which was way back when the 1st day i loggen in ... A gor master trapped me and told me to put the collar on then he would let me out of the cage !! Hummm!!! *Told me this is what sl is all about * thank god i had to common sence to log out and come back a day later ....

I've run into a good many masters who are Gor that wear leather. And one Gorean male wearing ass-less chaps in the WA (Hee, 'ass-less chaps' never stops being funny to say).

The person comparing the Gorean lifestyle to fundamentalist cults had it right. There is a common thread between Gors that makes them hard to like. You all share the same ideology that I find distasteful and counter-productive. Mature people enter equal relationships. I think a lot of these so-called male masters are probably 16 year old kids, which makes it really sad when the female half of the equation is like 40. I know a girl who had this happen to her. I laughed at her, of course.

I can't speak for Gor sims as I don't visit many. I can only speak for my own D/s sim. We hold discussion and classes for Dominants frequently and have had lots of our Gorean members attend.

We do not regulate or "police" each other but we do stress that people are responsible for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. One of the consequences is being banned from the group. However as an administrator I'm not going to go around to all the other D/s places I know and drag someone's name through the mud. Most of the time they'll manage to do that on their own.

My main account is a year old and I have two alt accounts created at different times over the last few months. All three times that I have been in the welcome area, I never saw any Gorean's, D/s people, or anyone else "preying on the newbies" (fixed that word for you).

Frankly my suspicion is that you're making this up but if it did happen, that wasn't a master of any kind, it was just some guy screwin with you.

How very compassionate of you.

And you complain about the morals of Gor folk?

Pot, kettle, black.

Lorelei, there is something like this that has developed naturally. A number of sims freely pass along warnings, notices of bannings, and info on griefers and creators of drama. If one is a total goober in one sim, you can bet some of the others have heard about it and are on notice. Not all sims work together like this..there are groups that do but the information DOES get passed around.

And about the "Master/Mistress" manual, I think it's a great idea and one that the gorean sim I am involved with is beginning to persue actively. I have long thought it unbalanced that the slaves are required to learn this and read that, yet the others are not required to make an effort to learn. And sadly (yes, I am going to say it...), it is the Masters/Mistresses of the groups who often NEED the education more than the slaves.

In the past year, I have seen a rise in dedicated slaves who are soured for a couple of reasons. One being that there simply isn't enough equally dedicated free persons to help them deal with learning, etc. Another is that in the wake of this, these slaves are turning to goobers who flock to gor looking for the rampant sex we are always supposed to be having, only to realize that these people know even less than the slave. She (or he!) gets disillusioned, yanked around, or even in emotional turmoil all because "some" of the people who come to gor to be a Master/Mistress really have no real interest.

There are some warning signs that you may be getting involved with somebody who really isn't all that interested in gor, just the babes or causing trouble.

1. Ask if they have read the books. If so, how many or which ones. Be wary of those who say "I don't like to read", "I prefer to learn by watching", or my favorite "Books? But I've just been to Frankie Freeman's How To Be Gorean in 30 minutes or less website".

2. Ask what made them interested in Gor. If they start off with either of the 2 S's, run!! (Slaves or Sex)

3. Ask what they are looking for in a slave. If "micromanaging" type details/rules come popping out, get those tooties moving! A list of "you can'ts" is not good for anybody. A strong Master or Mistress is not going to want to micromanage you on a constant basis. They will make clear what behavior is expected and it's up to you to work out how to meet that expectation. They will be available to discuss where you may be having trouble and not just layer on more rules.

4. Look at their groups. This can be a good indicator of the types of people that person associates with. Ask about anything you find contrary to what gor means to you.

Even the most savy of slaves can fall for a smooth talking goober, but if you know some warning signs to look for and use the good brain that you were born with, you should avoid a lot of the drama and hurt that can happen. A strong gorean owner WANTS an intelligent slave who can think for herself.


Well..got a little offtopic but it all ties in with education!
Have a great day
anjaleka

The men DO wear a lot of leather but not the women.



lol..yes, that is funny to say. Even funnier to see!

I am happy to hear this.



Again, this is heartening.



Well, being "interested in Gor" isn't really the point. The person I'm thinking of knew Gor inside and out and head read most, if not all, the books. He had been actively studying Gor for years. That didn't stop him from being a controling, manipulative bastard. One can be thoroughly interested in Gor and still be an ass.



Which makes me question the "real life" rules that are prevalent in Gor. Such as, you have to ask permission to get out of your real-life chair to go get a drink from the fridge or answer the door or whatever. What business does an online role-playing game have extending its rules beyond the computer screen?

It's not only the masters I heard this from. It was taught in the aforementioned slave classes.

Anjaleka, I think you don't understand the term "Leather Queen", heh. It isn't referring to the women.

See Lorelei the slaves often choose to get involved into having to ask persmission to do things in may seem quite off to you but alot of them actually enjoy submitting that much. I ran into a number of Gorean masters who actually worked out an agreement or a contract of sorts before they took on a slave. The classes are often mandatory so they learn the lifestyle and if they dont like certain aspects of it they might leave although they really should aquaint themselves with the lifestyle before hand. Alot of girls that run off to be slaves in Gor in SL do not aquaint themselves with the lifestyle. I've seen it happen many a time and then they were the ones that would turn around and say the master was a controlling jerk or whatever.

Some are controlling I'll agree but not the community as a whole. Thats the lifestyle though for alot of them. Judging by the born date for you I'd say you got involved back before it was alot more of a controlled enviroment. They are slowly learning and trying to toss out the people that play games with people. It's grown a bit since i just joined SL and most now adays dont tolerate things like the badly mistreating slaves. There are things that fall under the Gor lifestyle that do however come off as controlling to the general public. Such as a slave referring to herself as girl but thats besides the point thats something they agree to. Remember one thing a slave can always say No they do not want to do something and can leave. One must simply follow the rules of Gorean RP itself which i am sure you can find layden about. Those rules are to be followed by both the master and the slave alike if they break them its on them as individuals not as an entire community.

LL really should give out an instruction leaflet at the start. Something like:

Warning:

Second life may be dangerous to your inner equilibrium.

In participating in Second Life you might possibly encounter people who do not share your moral values. This has been known to offend some people and led to a serious loss of peace of mind.

We strongly advise you to not participate in Second Life if you are drunk, easily offended or prone to obsessive or compulsive behaviour.

good idea however maybe change the last line to "Unless you are drunk"

that way wont bother you so much =ppPPppPP

... and there you have it.

Some of us are not looking for a "lifestyle," just a fun thing to do in SL. The "lifestyle" component gets pushed pretty hard. Most of the sims call themselves a roleplay sim, not a lifestyle sim.



One more time, Lina, I never said everyone or most are. In fact, I even said most aren't. But those who are can do a lot of damage.



You know, you really make a lot of assumptions about me and about what I've experienced that end up being wrong. Ask next time. This was Nov. 05 through March of this year.



Most I've seen give lipservice to that. Most I've seen cluck their tongue and tut-tut and say how sad. Most I've seen don't actually do anything.

*spits out tea

Thank you Showdog. That was FUNNY.

If rape was really possible in SL...then I would have been raped A LOT.

No one can force you to do anything against your will online.

If you go along with it...that's a sign that you want it to happen.


The thought of seeing my AV kneeling for someone else's male av...they have to kill me and hack my account first before you'll ever see my AV kneel for a man.

thats awefully bold, you must be REALLY hawt!

No i just have some 'needy' friends who get turned on by the word "NO!" , I bet if they could...they would.