Something to be Said about Gorean Life

This is some good stuff, I found it like a few years ago at an International grocery store. Was trying to buy a maranade and happend upon this. They said it's a british-indian dish. Anyways, chicken grilled in Tikka maranade === ZOMG!

I am sure you have helped a lot of people though. and heresy is a Good Thing



Says a lot about the person saying it

It's been very cool talking with you and Lorelei in this thread and I've really benefited. Unfortunately it's also 2:34 a.m. here so I'd better turn into a pumpkin... hope to catch up with you later. Take care.

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Actually, the men in the mining operation are prisoners, outlaws and theives who are being punished for their crimes. Also note, it was a WOMAN in chrage who sentenced them to the mines.. and that it was MEN in the mines who were being punished.




It all depends on the City. There are some cities where women who are Free must cover every inch of their skin from view. The idea being that if raiders invade they'd be more then likely to kidnap the slaves who they can see, instead of a woman they can not and who might not be appealing to them.
There are also cities where women do stay locked away in their homes, only to be seen by their families.
Then, there are cities where Free Women do not even wear viels and walk about the city. They even hold positions of rank with in the Castes.... oh.. and my previous reference to the book Outlaw of Gor is that that the ruler of that city was an Ubera, a woman.



It's easy to see what's on the top layer of the Gorean ways, what most people assume is all of Gor. But, there's much more to it. It has many layers and many aspects. There are different cultures within Gorean life and there are tons of variables.

Oh my, they don't even wear veils there! How very progressive (some would even say scandalous!).

Who was then beaten, captured, enslaved, and tearfully admitted to her desire to be nothing more than a slavegirl to Tarl Cabot.

Kinda voids the point when you try to defend free women's place in the society, where as in the books they are only in that place so they can be ceremoniously pulled down from it and collared so John Norman can prove his point (somehow) that all women desire to be slaves to men no matter what their rank, class, or background. Every strong woman in gor is only there as an allegory to this example.

Gorean =Subhumans =Beastilty= A Dog ,We all know dogs will lick any one lol

hmmm, the Ubera was tricked by another woman who wanted her position. Was kidnapped by her and sold into slavery. Was discoverd by Tarl, who bought her freedom, did NOT coller her, instead treaeted her with respect (was not sexual, made sure she was properly dressed in the way of a free woman, and protected her) and then fought to return her to her place as ruler of the city.

Again, easy to judge if you look at the surface... more information if you read more indepth.

Statements like that do nothing more then prove your own ignorance. Don't mind, and actually enjoy, debating a subject with those who offer intelligence into the conversation.

That's right, Tarl hadn't turned into a total asshole yet and he still had the ideas of "earth-values" against slavery being wrong (this is only the 2nd novel after all) though as the novels progress he becomes more and more pro-slavery.

HOWEVER. The point is not that he enslaves her forever, but that she willingly submits to him, and even though she regains her place as Ubara of the city, she says that she will always consider herself his slave.

"And if the time should come Warrior, when you should desire a slave girl, some girl to wear your silk and your collar, your brand if you wish-remember Lara, who is Tatrix of Tharna" -Outlaws of Gor pg. 280

"'Please,' she begged, '-Master' And so it was that I took the cords from her hand, and in the same night Lara who had once been the proud Tatrix of Tharna became according to the ancient rites of her city my slave girl-and a free woman" -Outlaws of Gor pg. 231

The "Free woman" part comes from the Orwellian double-think used for political brainwashing in 1984 that John Norman imposed repeatedly throughout his novel of "Slavery is freedom".

The idea is not that he didn't collar her but that she submitted and accepted the philosophy of "a woman can only be happy under the heel of a man", which just about every female character does at some point in the gor novels.

You are very right in that quote, she does offer her submission to him, of her own freewill. She did not have to do so, but she chose to. Just as those who are in game RP'ers have made that same choice.

Also, you are right, that there is a constant theme of men being more powerful then women in the books and there is a reoccuring message of women only being happy through submission to a strong man.

I think that's part of the appeal of a lot of the women who RP as slaves in Gor, or at least it is for me and some that I have spoken to. We are in the real world strong women, with careers and responsibilities and demands on us, we take the weight of the world upon our shoulders. In our fantasy, in our SL, we are the opposite. We are "free" in a sense from the stresses of our RL and the pressures we feel.
Not speaking for all here, I'm sure others have their own reasons and feeling on why they are in Gor.

Gor isnt for everyone, have seen quite a few people come and go in the time that I have been there.

And I can even understand why some people are put off from the Gorean lifestyle, it goes against all that the modern day woman is taught and told. It goes against what most modern day men believe. Yet, there are many other things that go on in the real world that do the same. I look at other cultures in RL and as my RL self would not conform to the rules and restraints put on women. However, in my fantasy world, I can be what I am not in RL.

I never said Gor wasn't a choice. Of course it's a choice. We have lots of choices in life. However, I should state just because you're making a choice doesn't mean that alone justifies it. I'm certain that if someone had tried to stop the heaven's gate kids from drinking the poisoned kool-aid moments before, they would have screamed quite a bit about it being their choice.

And you know, i've heard a lot of gor being roleplay, but I very rarely see gorean roleplayers, ESPECIALLY ones who "roleplay" as slaves. The thing that makes something roleplay is the idea that it's not how you would normally act or talk. The roleplay has OOC moments indicated by (( and )) around the text. Even using this, i've seen Masters order their slaves around in OOC and slaves speak in third person in OOC. This combined with the numerous sorts of things that were ignored in the books about the slave master relationship in roleplay (like how slaves didn't wear their silks 90% of the time and they didn't nadu EVERYWHERE, nor were 90% of any given city either Masters or slaves). But these things are ignored to better make their area more sexual. What it is really, is a sort of extreme D/s following a philosophy of one particular writer (it should be noted that interestingly enough some goreans feel themselves seperate from the D/s community).

What bothers me most about gor is yes, the personal philosophical differences (and the idea of all the philosophical fallacies that Norman uses) as well as the cult tactics he uses throughout the book to convince the reader of his philosophy.

Again, you raise vailid points and I want to comend you on staying level headed and speaking your ideas in this discussion.

However, I disagree with your compairing of people selecting to RP a Gorean slave in a game to a RL suicidal cult. I wasn't brain washed into the RP that I have selected and become a part of. I am not brainwashed for remaing there and neither are any of those I know and speak with. True, there could be those who are manipulative and using the RP to harm others, just like there are those in other areas of SL who can be doing the same thing, and I personaly know of a few situations where that has happened outside of the Gorean players. There's always going to be a bad apple in the bunch no matter what you do, Gorean or not.


As far as those who speak OOC and in (( ))... those who are true RPer's refer to them as disney Goreans. The cities that i have been a part of and those who I have been involved with do not participate in the OOC and (( )).
And you are right, slaves did not always nadu in the books. Just like true RPer's do not always nadu. There are guidelines for when it's proper to nadu, tower, katra and stand. For example, I would never enter a public place and nadu infront of a free woman, that's disrespectful and not done unless comanded to.

Also, there is a difference between Gorean and D/s, actually quite a few differences. The differences are not only philisophical, but also have a lot to do with certain acts. I'm not going to go into sexual descriptions here, it's not the place in my mind and I dont want to be outwardly offensive to do so.

And again you are right, in the books there aren't as many slaves as there are in the Gorean RPers. To assume that it's that way simply for sexual reasons isn't the case. Many people have different reasons for deciding on their role in Gor. Some yes are sexual, some are not. My reasons for deciding to be a slave are not sexual, it's more emotional.

I wasn't so much trying to compare Gor to suicide cults in a whole sense, but in both the people involved made consensual decisions to join or not to join.

Personally, I think OOC is important for Roleplay, if you're not doing atleast a little bit of OOC talk, then you're probably roleplaying a far too seriously.

Also, the differences between Gor and D/s are not so numerous as one might think, largely it's due to gor not being a lifestyle, and D/s is, since Gor is based entirely on one series of novels by one author (and it should be noted that no lifestyle is based on one author's work, in one series of novels, and in one setting, this is either described as fandom, roleplay, or a cult). However, outside of the culture imposed off of a set of traditions in a fantasy world, and the philosophy coming from the author, it's exactly the same as D/s and you might even notice that in the more extreme sides of D/s they have lots of rules similar to gor.

Rat Empire of Gor!

Yeah "Disney Goreans" are generally what the "true goreans" call the real roleplayers who don't take it as a serious "lifestyle" like they do. "True goreans" seem to often hate roleplayers, I suppose they see it as a mockery of their real life "lifestyle".

You know at the start of your posts in this thread, I really thought maybe your attitude was just an inability to comprehend what people were saying but I can see now that all you're really here for is to get off on insulting people. "Subhumans.... lick anyone"..... I'm not even Gorean and you make me want to tell you to F*** off. I'm done explaining my D/s relationship to an idiot who only wants to throw stones.

Of course, when we were part of Gor, Mistress was never deferential to men (and could often inspire the opposite), but that has far more to do with the way She projects and presents Herself, with intangible qualities that are difficult to put into words, than anything in the actual "rules" of Gor.

I heartily endorse this.

Lifestylers are a joke.

In fact, here's a nice little article about a lifestyler who is roleplaying in Gor as we speak. Thank god he's banned from our sim.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/19/nsect19.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/19/ixuknews.html

What do you mean by that? D/s lifestylers? Gor lifestylers? Just the ones who act like the people in that story, or simply all of them, regardless?

Sweeping statements ... not good.

But wouldn't they be considered too pacifist and be enslaved?

(buy Alex's lovely statuettes!)

I think they'd be ignored mostly. What good would they be as slaves?



Oh go on ...

They could herd the llamas!



It's true, they are lovely statuettes.