Something to be Said about Gorean Life

I shouldn't, but I must.

First, there's no need to capitalize Some, Peoples (sic, we'll get to that), Defence (correct in the British spelling), That, mark, Spell, Well, Secretarys (sic), Typing, People, Profeicent (sic) Ect or Areas.

Second, possessives. It's people's.

Third, contractions: can't, not cant.

Fourth, spelling: secretaries, not Secretarys; proficient, not Profeicent; etc., not ect.

Fifth, punctuation:

1. Consider a comma between typing and that
   
2. A period should probably be placed after IQ
   
3. Elipses aren't needed between do and the or etc. and but. The ellipsis between most and Look should be a single period

Sixth, agreement/syntax/context/misc. - "If you can't spell that well most have secretaries that do" might be better as "Most people who can't spell well have secretaries who do" (do they?) and consider reworking the last sentence as "Look at Albert Einstein - a genius at math, etc., but lacking in other areas."

I agree that proper use of grammar does not mean one is smarter, or that bad spelling makes you a moron. However, grammar and spelling rules exist to help you communicate more effectively. Posts that closely adhere to expected grammar and spelling are easier to read and comprehend, while posts with many errors call more attention to mistakes than to the message.

Rape isn't rape if it's consensual. Roleplay is consensual as it's already been stated on this thread time and time again. It's not even a *form* of rape. Rape is NON-CONSENSUAL sex. And roleplay is *always* consensual. Rape is also defined as a crime in which case, it's not illegal to perform such acts on SL because it's roleplay to begin with.

Roleplay isn't exactly consentual when someone demands you play the role or suffer greivous injury, be it in SL or RL. Which is the case of much of Gor.

....Dude, "grievous injury" ISL?

Some people make their incomes on SL. Not as huge as Anshe, usually, but the premise is the same. If you've got an asshole for an ex-Master who knows the account with which you do business and he goes on the assault, that's livelihood.

Ah, okay. That's different from what I thought you meant, and is reasonable.

Thats also not Gor or any thing close to consensual RPing of anything.

Ex's don't need to be masters to be assholes.

And that kind of stalking obsessive behavior happens everywhere, it is not isolated to Gor or even any more or less common in Gor or in D/s relationships.

I've been reading your posts and you're giving the impression that somehow women who are involved in Gor or in D/s relationships are somehow weaker and more helpless than other women on average. That just isn't the case. It is the PERCEPTION, but frankly as someone who has been involved in the D/s lifestyle for a number of years, I can tell you that perception is simply wrong.

I am a submissive
I am not a weak person, I am a very strong person.
I am not a victimized person, I have stood up for and protected those who have been victimized.
I am not an emotionally unstable person, I consider myself in fact to be very stable.
I am also a mother, a friend, a lover, a woman, a business woman, I am many many things.
This statement... I am a submissive... is but a small piece of the entire puzzle that is me. That small piece does not make me any weaker or more vulnerable than anyone else.

I have known people in my life who are vulnerable, who do become easy prey, and I can honestly say they are as equally likely to be "vanilla" as they are to be submissives.

Wrong. It's not much of gor. What you've done is heard the maybe one or two people tell you about a bad experience they've had and assumed that is gor as a whole. I've been roleplaying on Gor online since 1997, known a lot of slaves in my time and only one time have I heard anyone threaten another with physical harm.

If you think threats of injury come from Gor, you are sadly mistaken. It's the internet as a whole. There are predators all over, not just in Gor. So this isn't really a Gor issue is it.

It's an online safety issue. No matter where you go on SL let alone online, you need to be safe. It's common sense.

And my original point Corvus was that roleplay IS consensual. Roleplaying Gor and Rape is consensual to begin with. Your wrong to assume that it's a Gorean issue. It's not. It's a consensuality issue. Gorean Roleplay is consensual. If your under the impression that gorean roleplay can suffer in grevious injury be it SL or RL, then it's not Roleplay to begin with nor is it gorean roleplay.

Oh thank you for quoting that one coyote... I love to give my reaction to the unthought statement of corvus drake:

1. I don't experience greivous (spelling?) injury nor do I inflict it. Not in Gor, not in D/s, not in dungeon plays or where ever I go.
2. I'm staring at a screen; how can i feel greivous injury knowing very well it's a virtual world different from RL.
3. Setting aside #2 (mental can hurt, I will acknowledge that), then GRIEVERS cause me more "greivous" injury, LITERALLY: pushing me around, firing bullets at my avatar, harassing me, caging me, orbitting me then a Gor has EVER done.

So take your crusade and bring it to good use: AGAINST GRIEVERS!

You hit that one right on the head.

rofl - caught it - good one Annah

Maybe this will help bring some understanding.

Submission in the context being used does not mean being weak and subservient.

Domination does not mean domineering.

Look at traditional ballroom dancing. The man leads, the woman follows. He acts like an anchor, she flows around him. He throws her into the air and she trusts him to catch her. Together they form something that neither of them could do apart. I've yet to hear anybody claim that ballroom dancing is unbalanced or sick, yet that's the dynamic that can be achieved, just the tools are different.

However, very often Gor and ds is filled with people who utterly lack any social skills whatsoever, and think that its a free ride to getting a sex partner. The lounge lizards with the smell of high test chlorettes about them exist in many forms, and are not limited to the lands of Gor.

This is just another meaningless attack on the role play community in SL thats been happening as of late. For the folks that start threads like this get off it. If you dont like certain things dont partake of them. You have the choice not to be in SL where people partake in consentual fantasies and you have the choice to be here or not. Please stop attacking Role Playing communities you obviously do this to instill frustration on people time and time again and your making two ToS violations time and time again. First off your showing intolerance to role playing groups time and time again. Some groups have even gone so far as to harass role playing groups such as age players.

Its rather shocking that time and time again I see this inflamitory intolerence. No one by any means has the right to judge someone elses actions when they are completely legal. This is a moral issue from person to person and people should not push their moral's on other people. Linden Labs has told the people who protest time and time again that the people roleplaying are totally within their rights and that it is between two consenting adults. And yet you choose to ignore this and post moral issues on subject matter you know little to nothing about. Rape is not ok in real life but a rape fantasy is in real life and in SL. Fantasies are a consentual thing between two people. People do roleplay that a burgler broke in and took them.

If you dont like it thats your choice but do not try to force your idealoligy on the masses its just quite absurd in any context. You seem to just be moving through the different role playing groups to target. I apologize if this sounds harsh but it's time for some people to face the reality that mabye they are the ones with the problems not the people performing the fantasies. You seem to think something is wrong with everyone else because they dont hold to the same ideals or morals that you do so they are subject to be judged by you and try to have your idea's forced onto them by trying to rally other people who think the same way which by the way are likely a very small minority of SL as most of them dont bother coming to the forums.

I accept everyone's rights to concent to the roleplay of their choice. Its two consentual adults playing out a fantasy and you can argue that point all you want but that is the truth. This has been 1 of how many threads on the subject of how bad or sick certain groups are for doing something that a psychologist or a therapist may actually reccomend as being a healthy resort for a person. If your going to judge everyone else and hold them to your own standards then start by judging your own flaws.

Learn about the communities you judge and mabye talk to a large group and learn to understand the communities before you judge them.

Having learned about the community by being connected to it in various ways and forms since before Slip ever heard of it...

and having educated myself based off of what I have seen, heard, and have evidenced....

I'll really just shortcut this and say that I have already met all the qualifiers the uber-rush-defenders of Gorean RP in SL have thrown up here....

...Gor, in SL, is still shit.

Not once have I said that the problems in Gor are exclusive to it. My assertions have been these:

Gor, as depicted in SL and many other venues, trends as an outlet for the insecure to find and exploit the insecure.

Gorean Masters, particularly in SL, abuse the RP and use it to harm people both in SL and RL. This is more the rule than the exception.

I am a Dominus and Master myself, and as such, find Gorean Mastership akin to a sort of sexual scientology, rarely serving as something more entertaining than it is dangerous to the submissives involved.

As such, being a legitimate Master and a long-time roleplayer, including Dolcett roleplay, ageplay, Furdom, incest, and just about every other role one can play, find Gor (particularly as depicted in SL) as a dangerous and offensive form of D/s that violates every tenet of mutual trust and affection present in more conventional D/s.

The brainwashing methods used as part of standard authorship in the 26 Books of Gor are very effective and can addle the mind of the player as much as the avatar.


These have been my assertions in any discussion on the topic. Never have I said that these problems are exclusive to Gor. However, they are more prevalent in Gor than any other internet and even RL subculture I have ever seen, including the simple RP "gaming" of it. Further, I would go so far as to say that my EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE TOPIC, GAINED THROUGH PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, THE EXPERIENCES OF OTHERS, TOPICAL LITERATURE, AND DIRECT EXPERIENCE more than qualifies my opinion on the matter.

I would like to point out that I once started to set up a clinic, where people who were being harassed by Masters they wanted to leave could go and meet with others in a similar situation. This was not directed at only Gor, but to ANYONE who tries to affect a player's RL via SL or otherwise abuse them. I recieved hate-IM's about it from at least 25 people identifying themselves as Gorean Masters, and from 15 who claimed to be just a part of the culture and felt that any abuse clinic like that is a direct attack on Gor. The actual site was griefed by Goreans before I finished it and I had to dissolve the project.

Then, when myself and some others began to put together a D/s RP system that paralleled Gor's positive traits but had a policing system to prevent abuse, Goreans began bothering myself and others involved, claiming that we were, by creating a D/s RP built to attract people who want a Gor-like atmosphere without the creepiness as well as any other person wanting a D/s RP, attacking Gor directly.

Does this sound like the action of secure, upright people?

There are some members of all communities that have problems thats a given. The majority of people involved in Gor in SL are not really into Gor but that doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to partake in it. The slaves or what have you, both parties of the Roleplay need to consent in any form of roleplay. This can be said of anything outside of RP however as well. There are just some creeps out there really. A slave no matter what has to consent to being involved in gor and involved with that master. They may leave at anytime they choose. Why do alot of them choose to stay then?

They are not being forced to do so. Its not brainwashing if one actually is consenting to it nor is it by them reading a book on the subject matter. Brainwashing is instilling words, or ideals over and over again until that is all that person can think when a subject matter comes up. Ill admit i find gor a bit weird and some of the people involved a bit weird. But im not intolerent. I think the people have a right to do as they wish as long as both parties are consenting to it and are actually of legal age. A party cannot be forced to partake in any action inside the RP community of second life upstanding or not. That is the point. There is nothing illegal or sick or whatever about it its subjective to each and everyones morals but the people that think it is wrong or sick need to learn to leave things be instead of running off on crusades on almost all forms of RP in SL.

Its just another thread protesting basic nonesense really. No one is subject to anyone else's approaval especially in an online world like second life. Your not forced to partake in it or see it. Some people find it wrong so we should all be subject to their finding it weird or creepy? Im not involved in Gor but there is a degree to which you should at least be tolerant and respectful of other social groups even if you find their method's odd or what not. What im getting at corvus is the absurdity of most of these people protesting anything trying to say it should be banned.

In all honesty while i may not particularly like being involved in a set social group I'm respectful. Gorean's have their own sims and they partake of everything of their own free will. As does every person involved in any kind of RP in SL. No one is sitting there in a chair next to you with a gun to your head saying you have to be someone's slave or what have you. Weird or not upright gives no one the right to tell two consenting adults partaking in RP what to do unless it is specifcally targeted to grief you. We do not have the right to judge others simply because we think one thing. Unless your ready to honestly sit down and judge all your own flaws what right do you have to judge other people?

Please Note this is broad and not targeed t at corvus except for a few small lines which are quite apparent.

You are a very sick person, may the priest-kings save your soul.

Dómine Deus, Agnus Dei.
Qui tollis peccáta mundi, miserére nobis.
Qui tollis peccáta mundi, súscipe deprecatiónem nostram.
Qui sedes ad déxteram Patris, miserére nobis.
Cum Sancto Spíritu in glória Dei Patris.

I will now try to exorcise your demons.

Ego facultate mihi ab Apostolic Sede tributa,
indulgentiam plenariam et remissionem omnium peccatorum tibi concedo et benedico te.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spirtus Sancti, Amen.

The sun was hot on the horizon in Trovaldsland, it was the year 10,120 C.A from the founding of Ar (or Constasta Ar) , the generally standarized chronology on Gor. Or a year after the battle of Se'Kara.

My name is Lost, I was a thrall, formerly attached to the hall of Jarl Omea, and previously to that a captive of the female panthers of the forrests north of Laura, and before that a warrior of the great city of Turia in the south. I have shamed my caste, fallen into the hands of women, had my hair cut horizontally from top to bottom and sold to the men of the north, the tall giants of Trovaldsland.

But, I have managed to gain some of my honor, not all of it, but a little of it, I will never be able to wear the colors of my caste, yet I have in the night before, slaughted my former Jarl, and 40 other men, in my frenzy I had also (and to their benifit) slaughted all his bond-maids. I did not want baggage on my trip south, but what is there for me to do in the south?

The sun had already baked the blood on my face and much of my clothing, my sword was the only clean item on me. I had made sure the sword was washed, and then oiled before slipping into my makeshift scabbard. The short sword is much used by the warriors of the south, but it's often not seen up here in the north, where the blue eyed, blonde haired giants of Trovaldsland favored the much bigger broad sword, but while that may be to their advantage in fights in the their great long boats, up close, a warrior of Trovaldsland takes time to swing and then regain his edge, it's often said a good warrior with a broad sword would never fall through with his swing, often stopping half way as a fent. But faced with a warrior of a south, one with a short sword, they are often cut into piece before they could regain their swinging arch. I should have brought at least one bond-maid.

I sensed the beast before it could pounce on me and jumped to the right, a great body of fur passed over me and landed with a thug behind me. My first thoughts were of the beasts of Gor, many of which I could have taken single handed, but then I sensed the vile smell and the hideous shape looming over the corner of my eyes. This was a Kur, a rational being, one of the those of the others left behind on this planet and that which are no match to most humans. The Kur is much like a pussy cat of Earth, the resemblance ends around here, this particular beast stands 8 feet and walks upright, has great tentacle shaped 6 fingered hands and fur that covers all of it's body. It also has 2 pairs of long fangs that cover much of it's face. The beast usually favors a battle axe, one that is 7 Gorean feet long from end to end, and a 4 feet shield made of bronze. The axe can cut a man in half in one swing, which would be the best way to die to one like this, for they are man eaters.

I screamed the war cry of Turia, and leapt right at the beast, trying to push it back with my momentum. I saw the yellow eyes of the beast contract in suprise as it fell back. I jumped up and slashed at it's weapon hand, blood flowing all over my blade. The beast threw its shield at me (an action that would have killed a less heroic man), quickly I lept back, and then to my suprise I heard the beast roar.. such a horrible scream that I stood frozen, my eyes went down to what I had done. Flung three Gorean yards from the beast lay the great axe, the hand still attached to it. The beast looked at me, with surprise in it's eyes. I was lucky, I was very lucky.

I regarded it, and addressed it "What is your name beast?". It tried to utter some hideous word that I could never have understood. I laughed it it then kicked it's shield to the side commanding it to submit to me. "Beast," I said, "you have no name now, but I shall give you a name". "From now on you will be known as 'Leina'". The beast looked at me in horror but then with blood loss weaking it it bowed its head to me and uttered the words "Yes Master".

Thus I, Lost, formerly a thrall, formerly a captive and before that a warrior of Turia became to be the Master of one of Kur.

Yet again you take bits of my posts and try to skew them. Its totally just absurd and yet again you try to take the thread off track. That is all and you will be reported.

It must have been the light, but whatever cast upon her just added to the brilliance of her beauty. My name is Lost Lost, I am a humble travelling teacher from Europe. I have been travelling around the United States for four years, and this is the first time in several years that I have found heaven.

Her name is Leina, standing 4 foot 3, in slacks, she was my fall, my hell and maybe my heaven on Earth. I was humbled before her beauty and the sudden crime that is being commited as I gaze upon her and let her name tumble through my lips, Lei`na, the fire in my throat, my thought-crime and my victimless forum post.

I gazed at her beauty, role playing a 12 year old she was definitely the most convincing adult to have every fancied a North Eastern lollypop, one made of pure sugar cane. I gazed at her, my mind still commiting thought crime. I sended the fire still in my throat.

It was three months to this day that her father had accidently died while taking the dog for a walk, at that time I was a guest at her house, and due to some very fortunate circumstances, I have become the gurdian of this angel.

Yet, as I gaze upon her, I know the crime was not commited by me, for she dressed as such, and the manner in the way she walked, could easily be identifided (to well learned man), to be of something of another nature. She was pure evil that had manifested on Earth, and thus corrupted this sinless man's life and send him on a wild sinful drive through the mid-west, commiting many thought crimes.

I looked at her and wondered what would happen if for once she dressed her age... oh the horror of horrors, I would have left her then and there.

The question I have is. Do you in anyway feel that gives people the right to say people should be banned for certain RP things? Do you feel that because there are bad eggs that the entire community of rp'ers should be punished for that? Wouldnt all people then be subject to it. Thats what i question. I agree with you that is the problem but it a problem in r/l and SL alike. People sometimes are just nasty but if someone's an ass or a jerk i cant have them arrested. I can press charges if it turns to harassment or violent and the same can be done in SL. So i agree with you 100% on those matters.

Has anyone read the profile of the person that started this thread? Check it out if you haven't...it's entertaining stuff, especially when you take into account what she has posted here.

Now for a quote: "Can't we all just get along?" - seriously.
What happened to 'live and let live'? For some reason there are people still in this world (talking about RL beliefs carried over into SL) that believe that their way of life and their beliefs outweigh anyone else's right to their own choices. I'm not Gor and I don't particularly understand the roleplay (since I haven't read the books) but for heaven's sake - the people that take part in Gorean roleplay are doing so because they choose to, not because they're being forced to participate totally against their will.

To speak to RL vs. SL and rape fantasies - there are plenty of people in the world who really do have psychological problems and need help. The problem is that chances are they will log onto the internet before they travel down to their local Psychiatrist and undergo treatment. I would rather someone 'live out' their sexual fantasies (however deviant the general populace might think it is) online in this form than actually searching out a person in RL and carrying out their actions, where the victim has to live the rest of their life with horrible memories of being raped or worse.

The fact is the same if you're talking about television and music in RL or about Goreans (and others with similar lifestyles) in SL - if you aren't comfortable with something or don't like it - don't subject yourself to it...don't go around them, don't think about them, make them nonexistant in your Avatar's life. In other words, change the channel.

A person is entitled to their own opinion (well, in some places) and that right extends to being able to disagree with someone else's opinion. So there's not much use in participating in a discussion and then getting ticked off when someone else thinks a person has the intellectual capacity of a slug and posts just that. (That's not directed to anyone in particular, I just took the opportunity to say that)

If a person or group is not actively harrassing you or harming you in some way, why try to purposefully insult those people and send out an open invitation for what inevitably results in a thread filled with inflammatory statements?

I didn't read all of this so if i'm repeating someone then sorry.

How is "play rape" rape? if it's consentual then it isn't rape.

In short,

This was a thread made by some Goreans to generate a nonsense ridden discussion with cleaverly disguised poll entries.

In otherwords, most people in this thread have been had.

Or .. in game speak..

PWN3D