Something to be Said about Gorean Life

I feel so used now. *sniff*





Oh wait i would have discussed anyway. Nevermind then.

Hold on I take that back, this thread isn't that clever...

This thread actually highlights the amazing stupidity and the apparent uneducated nature of Gorean physicians. I'm now convinced that Gorean physicans have yet not been able to acquire a highschool diploma, collectively.

I am also saddend by the fact that Gorean physicans had to resort to sock puppets, all of whom could be fingerprinted by their amazingly similar grammar. Granted in Gor, English may not be their first language, I still feel, they as physicans -- of the first knowledge -- should know better.

Gorean physicians do not need diplomas. They learn their trade by practicing. Unlike the weak physicians on earth, where the true nature of physicians has been forgotten.

Actually, Gorean physicians undergo much more rigorous training, as the amount of material and the advanced nature of that training is much greater than that of Earth physicians.

Infact, it is apparent that Gorean physicians are advanced by a magnitude of about 2000 years compared to 1970's Earth physicians. The advances in limb growth, perpetual life serum puts them way ahead of any non-herbalist Earth physicians.

One factor the prist-kings did not limit was the growth in medicine and technology that would not affect war, thus in Gor we have barbarian fighting with axes and swords, at the same time having medicine and peaceful technology more advanced than Earth.

Priest-kings regulated advances in weapon technology by systematically striking down on any inventor who made a weapon more advanced than a cross bow.

Actually, if Norman ever wrote 'Physicians of Gor' or 'Medical Faculties of Gor' i failed to read it so far. WE really should get an expert here who could give us a reference that clarifies how they learned their trade.

This one is a strong woman and successful business owner in her First Life. In her Second Life, she became curious about Gor and so went exploring Gorean sims.

There she met her true Master and gleefully submitted to him. This one has never been raped by her Master or mistreated in any way. Her relationship with her Master is like that of many non-Gorean relationships in that he tells her everything, and frequently ask her opinion on matters. The difference is that this one does whatever her Master says to.

Girl does so because she loves and respects her Master, and recognizes that He has better judgement in a variety of areas. Girl does not submit because she is forced to. You may not agree with this girl, and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (even this girl).

This one feels that Gor is like many other cultures in that it is comprised of good people, bad people, those who are evilly sadistic and those who like drama. Those who truely wish to understand why women choose to roleplay Gor would create an alt and talk to kajirae, not post deragotory comments to the forums under the guise of a rape counselor.

This one would be glad to attempt to answer any questions You may have about why she is in Gor.

Actually if you come looking for me when I am outside of Gore I am usually dressed in normal clothes, pants, tank top or whatever. Now if you see me in my silks then yes I will show you respect as I would any Gorean man or woman. There was even once that I showed a regular Master respect by calling him Master and his last name. My first Master when I came to SL actually has a house in a normal sim and his neighbors consist of a Dom and his sub, a cubby adoption place, military behind him and used to be a pony farm to the left. When we were in our silks we would refer to them as Sir or Ma'am, except for the Dom. You would be surprised just how many Goreans you run into that does know how to rp out in your world. My first Master and my current treat everytone out of Gore the same. Please don't think that just because you have run into one and see how they rp you think you have figured them all out. As Mira it is very hard for me to refer to myself in the first person as I have grown used to the third ie this girl. Remember we are here to have fun and do our own thing. But also remember if a slave refers to you as Master/Mistress when they are in their silks it is out of the highest respect, not because we don't know how to rp in your world.

Before you speak of Gor, learn to spell it properly.

Also, seems like this Gor RP has deteriorated your grasp of English. This reminds me of a funny guild application in WoW. I'll have to find it (person kept saying W/we and speaking in 3rd person).

Also if you're trying to leave others alone, why do Gorean men keep refering to other people as "girl" and imposing their style of RP all over? Why do Goreans make thread like this and astroturf it so bad? Yes this thread was made by Goreans, if you didn't know. I'll tell you why, so that one of them could post a "Oh no this is how real Goreans are" type of post. So funny!

Since you kinda missed the whole point of the last 3 pages of this thread Let me point out the OP, Gorean physician, every single poll option on this thread basically says "Rape is good".

Wow that is ironic that the Original Poster is a Gorean ex slave now a Physician.

Or maybe not Ironic, you know what I mean.

Although to be fair , Maybe she just now found out about the rape fantasy aspect of Gor and decided to speak out. Many goreans in SL I dont think know hardly anything about those books or much else of what they are role playing at.

In answer to "how can someone force you to RP?"

It's rather simple.

The slave gets really entranced into the whole thing, or genuinely trusts their Master.

The Master gets personal information, which may be intentional or just in passing as the two get to know each other.

The Slave wants to quit the RP. THe Master threatens RL damage to them if they do, or at the very least, extreme difficulty for them in SL.

It doesn't have to be a gun to be extortion.

Extortion is not consentual.

Therefore Lina's post is moot.

I really wish the Gorean community would set aside defensiveness long enough to talk about this rationally. I do not mean to attack anyone, and I certainly don't want to ban any sort of role play. But I think there are some genuine concerns.

Look, consider a bar, for example. Most people in any given bar are fine -- they aren't alcoholic, don't get violent when they drink, wouldn't get behind the wheel of a car and drive drunk. That said, a bar is a kind of environment that would attract people who do those things. Therefore, bartenders need to be wary and watch for questionable behavior.

In a similar way, most people in Gor are just fine. But the parameters of the role play create an environment inviting topeople who do wish to manipulate people and exert controling behavior over others. That is why the Gorean community should be especially watchful for this kind of thing. And in my experience, that was not the case.

There were bad agents that everyone knew of, but no one really did much about it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head Lorelei.... a LOT of the problem, is that most Goreans can't be bothered to respond in here when we tend to be "lumped together" as all being the same.
In all walks of life...and SL sub cultures..... even forum posters.... there are decent people, and there are ass****s.
I'll happily hold my hand up and say I wouldn't give house space to some of the players I meet in Gorean sims. I can ALSO happily say, that that applies to most OTHER areas of SL too.
Good post.

That could happen in any lifestyle at all, Corvus, even in a purely egalitarian relationship.

Good post Coyote.



Connected, but not actually in it. I've been roleplaying in it online since 1997 off and on. You admitted that you do not nor have you spent any long periods of time in it. This is an indirect way to compare penis size. Move along. *waves you away*

From: Corvus Drake

In answer to "how can someone force you to RP?"

It's rather simple.

The slave gets really entranced into the whole thing, or genuinely trusts their Master.

The Master gets personal information, which may be intentional or just in passing as the two get to know each other.

Why would any rational, responsible individual give his/her real life information to some random guy on the intarweb? That's like someone giving their credit card info, my telephone number and address to their SL Partner. Or giving personal info to some guy who was courting you in IRC?

Is that "roleplay's" fault? No. What your example shows is some sexual predator using the Gor setting/roleplay to manipulate people and a slave who is either careless or has psychological issues that uses Gor as an escape got into that situation.

The roleplay may/possibly lead to that situation but it is not the cause of that situation. There is a world of difference. Just like dom/sub relationships may/possibly also lead to that kind of situation. Hell, even marriage (and even friendships) can lead to that. Anything that involves trust (in all levels), when one partner decides to abuse that trust, it will lead to an abusive situation.

And trust when given is consentual. Roleplay at least requires a minimum of trust. Even games as simple as tabletop role-play requires a degree of trust to their GM. The fact that you even agree to go into RP with a certain individual indicates that you trust that individual at a certain level.

This kind of situation, isn't anything new or exclusive or Gor. It's been happening since chatrooms have been around and longer. The only reason why Gor gets a lot of limelight is its controversial setting.

Again, as an individual, you do have that choice to stop or continue in this situation. The choice to stop and leave behind Gor and possibly Second Life for peace of mind is an example of a choice. The choice to believe there is no escape from this pixelated hairy man in a leather outfit who calls himself 'Master of the Universe' is also a choice. Even the choice to continue to accept abuse is still a choice.

The Slave wants to quit the RP. THe Master threatens RL damage to them if they do, or at the very least, extreme difficulty for them in SL.

It doesn't have to be a gun to be extortion.

Extortion is not consentual.

Therefore Lina's post is moot.

Extortion ALSO happens when you let it happen or worse let it continue. You reap what you sow after all. You got careless and gave real life info to some faceless stranger in the intarweb you thought you trusted (that was the risk you had to take, so you have to deal with the consequences). Giving your personal info online is like going out to grab a hobo, give him a gun, lead him to a dark alley and tell him to mug you.

There are enough articles in Cosmo, Vogue, online articles, books, etc on how to safeguard yourself on the internet already, that I assume the average SL player would have already know even in passing unless they were minors or really ignorant (or 'special'). Then again ignorance is never an excuse.

It's the same with roleplay, before you delve into anything you want to get involve in, especially given Gor's very controversial setting, it is the individual's personal responsibility to familiarize themselves/research into what they are getting into. No one else will correct your own stupidity, except yourself. God/Nature/Evolution gave you a brain, please use it.

And no, the excuse that they were lured by a smooth talking Gorean is just the same as being conned by a smooth talking con artist trying to sell this latest get-rich scheme. In both cases it was better to look before you jump.

But are you trully helpless? Only if you think so. And given the annoynimity of the intarweb, it's very easy to just get up and disappear. SL has provided that escape route already. It's called open registration and alt accounts. The same that if this abuser starts encroaching in your First Life, then take First Life precautions. I heard they call it the police, the lawyer/judge and in some cases the bank manager/clerk.

Yes there are people whom this kind of thing happens to but it isn't a Gor issue, hell it's not even an online issue. Stalkers are everywhere, online and in RL.

But actually it's easier to protect oneself from this kind of thing online than it is in RL. In RL there is a physical danger, online there just isn't, not if a person is cautious and aware. I know that sometimes people aren't cautious enough or aren't aware enough and they find themselves in these situations, but it isn't more common among submissives than among the rest of the population.

And lets face it, people tend to over react in an emotional situation. A man and a woman have a relationship. The woman wants to leave, the man doesn't want her to. He fights and yells and threatens. She still leaves but now with his harsh words in her head. It's pretty much how a lot of relationships end. But in the midst of all that, instead of thinking rationally about what he can or can't actually do to her, she's responding to his threats emotionally.

If someone threatens you physically there are stalker laws, use them. As for extreme difficulty in SL... what difficulty? Threats? spreading rumors? Dropping the occasional bomb on your land? Honestly how big an issue could anything like that really be? If someone is truly so afraid of this kind of thing that they actually feel forced to continue the relationship then they are seriously over reacting and should be told to get over it.

If an ex makes threats in an RL break up then there is a danger, a reason to be afraid. If an ex makes threats in an online break up they are just words. I believe at some point you mentioned that you've seen this kind of thing over and over? Well did it ever occur to you at any point to tell the people to just take a step back and look rationally at how much of a "threat" there really is?

There was a situation a few years ago that happened to me, but guess what, it had nothing to do with any roleplay. A "friend" (we'll call her dumbass) gave someone my phone number thinking she was helping, that it was romantic how much he wanted me.

So yea he called me and when I wasn't interested he tried the threats and the manipulation. "I can ruin you, I can make things impossible for you here, I'll come after you" blah blah blah.

What did I do? I called his bluff. Ruin me, go for it. Find me, dare ya. I'll introduce you to my rottweiler. Guess what happened. Not a dam thing. He ran around calling me names for a week or so, made himself look like an ass and got himself pretty much outted from the community.

When someone says.. "My Master won't let me leave, my boyfriend won't let me leave, my husband won't let me leave... What do I do?" Tell them this.... Leave.

Anything more than that and most of the time they're just being dramatic. In some cases the drama itself is a kind of roleplay, it is the helpless victim playing the role of helpless victim. I'm not saying thats the case in every situation, but certainly in the many of the one's I've seen.

No matter what you call it it is Still rape there are Different form of it ...

This to me Is Emotional Rape of the mind ... no rape is Right ...( MIND Rape )

is what is it ... It is purely wrong no matter how you try to justify your self ... We are ppl not Pixels .... No matter what is said

Not matter who you are is can have Distruction written all over it

Cuz Sl is All From the mind too as well !!!! hum


What is Emotional Rape?
Emotional rape has many similarities to physical rape, particularly date rape. Date rape involves the sexual use of someone's body without consent. In a like manner, emotional rape is the use of someone's higher emotions, such as love, without consent. However, in the case of emotional rape the lack of consent is contained in what the perpetrator doesn't say... his or her hidden agenda. Emotional rape can happen to both men and women. Both forms of rape can be very devastating and require specialized programs for recovery.

Several major obstacles are encountered in recovery from emotional rape. The first is that the victim knows that something bad happened, but doesn't know what or why. And as in date rape, a big issue is that of trust. Victims often feel that they will never be able to love or trust anyone again. Other obstacles to recovery, again similar to date rape, are the re-victimization of the victim by friends, family, and society and the subsequent tendencies toward self-blame and silence about what happened.



Colliding Emotions
It is no exaggeration to describe emotional rape as the most underrated trauma of our age; the effects are powerful and potentially destructive.

Victims like Cheryl are forced to cope with a tangle of conflicting emotions, experiencing all the traumatic after effects of both rape and loss.

This confused pattern of emotional responses is very similar to that experienced by victims of sexual rape.

It's a pattern commonly identified as post-traumatic rape syndrome, although victims of emotional rape will be unaware that this is what is happening to them.

These colliding emotions become so entangled that it is extremely difficult - and would be a serious misrepresentation - to attempt to categorize them individually. They are inseparable.

However, it is possible to identify certain generalized feelings which characterize the emotional aftermath. Principally, these are:

* Denial
* Isolation
* Feeling 'Had' or 'Used'
* Loneliness
* Rage and Obsession
* Inability to Love or Trust
* Loss of Self-Esteem
* Confusion
* Erratic Behavior
* Hidden and Delayed Reactions
* Fear and Anxiety



"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul." -Matthew 10:28



The rape of the mind and stealthy mental coercion are among the oldest crimes of mankind. They probably began back in pre historic days wheh man first discovered that he could exploit human qualities of empathy and understanding in order to exert power over his fellow men. The word "rape" is derived from the Latin word _rapere_, to snatch, but also is related to the words to rave and raven. It means to overwhelm and to enrapture, to invade, to usurp, to pillage and to steal.

The modern words "brainwashing," "thought control," and "menticide" serve to provide a clearer conception of the actual methods by which man's integrity can be violated. When a concept is given its right name, it can be more easily recognized and it is with this recognition that the opportunity for systematic correction begins.

In this book the reader will find a discussion of some of the imminent dangers which threaten free cultural interplay. It emphasizes the tremendous cultural implication of the subject of enforced mental intrusion. Not only the artificial techniques of coercion are important but even more the unobtrusive intrusion into our feeling and thinking. The danger of destruction of the spirit may be compared to the threat of total physical destruction through atomic warfare. Indeed, the two are related and intertwined.







Emotional/Psychological Abuse

Many forms of abuse are obviously cruel. Emotional abuse is more subtle. Quite often such abuse goes unseen, as even the victim does not recognize that she is being abused. Although emotional abuse does not leave black eyes or visible bruises, it is often more seriously damaging to your self-esteem. Emotional abuse is cruel and scars your soul. Physical or sexual abuse is always accompanied and often follows emotional abuse, i.e. emotional battering is used to wear the victim down - often over a long period of time - to undermine her self-concept until she is willing to take responsibility for her abuser's actions and behaviour towards her or simply accept it.

There are many categories of emotional/psychological abuse. They encompass a variety of behaviors that will be easily recognisable by those experiencing them, and often remain completely unnoticed by others.

They include:


Isolation

The abuser will control whom the victim sees, where she goes, whom she speaks to and what she does. This can take the form of simply not allowing her to use the phone, have her friends round or visit her family, or ensuring it simply isn't worth it by being in a bad mood because she left some housework undone, making her feel guilty that she was out enjoying herself while he worked, or even encouraging her - theoretically - to make friends, and then discounting them or complaining that she cares more for her friends/family/hobby than she does him or is neglecting him. Some abusers may move home frequently to prevent their victim from building a social support network.

Many abusers justify their control over their victim by stating that it is proof of their love, or that they worry about their safety when out, etc. In reality however, the abuser needs to isolate his victim to feel secure themselves, they feel as though any relationship, be it family, friend or colleague, will undermine their authority over and take their partner away from them, i.e. poses a threat. The effect of this isolation is that the victim feels very alone in her struggle, doesn't have anyone with whom to do a 'reality check', and is ultimately more dependant on the abuser for all her social needs.

Forms of Isolation include:

* checking up on you
* accusing you of unfaithfulness
* moving to an isolated area
* ensuring you lack transport or a telephone
* making your friends or family feel uncomfortable when visiting so that they cease
* punishing you for being 10 minutes late home from work by complaining, bad moods, criticism or physical abuse
* not allowing you to leave the house on your own
* demanding a report on your actions and conversations
* preventing you from working
* not allowing any activity which excludes him
* finding fault with your friends/family
* insisting on taking you to and collecting you from work

In extreme cases the victim may be reduced to episodes of literally becoming a prisoner, being locked in a room and denied basic necessities, such as warmth, food, toilet or washing facilities.


Verbal Abuse

When thinking of Verbal Abuse we tend to envisage the abuser hurling insulting names at the victim, and while this obviously does happen, there are many more forms than name-calling. The abuser may use critical, insulting or humiliating remarks (e.g. you've got a mind like ditchwater; you're stupid; etc.), he may withhold conversation and refuse to discuss issues, or he may keep you up all night insisting on talking when you need sleep. Verbal abuse undermines your sense of worth, your self-concept (i.e. who you think you are) by discounting your ideals, opinions or beliefs.

Verbal abuse can include:

* yelling or shouting at you
* making threats
* insulting you or your family
* being sarcastic about or criticising your interests, opinions or beliefs
* humiliating you either in private or in company
* sneering, growling, name-calling
* withholding approval, appreciation, or conversation
* refusing to discuss issues which are important to you
* laughing or making fun of you inappropriately
* leaving nasty messages
* accusing you of unfaithfulness, not trying hard enough or purposely doing something to annoy
* blaming you for his failures or other forms of abuse


All of these abusive behaviors prohibit normal, healthy interaction between two adults as well as a lack of respect for individual thoughts, feelings, and opinions. A healthy, mutual interaction and conversation between two persons respects and promotes the right of each partner to their own individual thoughts, perceptions and values.

Uh huh.. I met a guy once who tried to tell me he could do this .... I haven't stopped laughing yet.


These are called the results of a bad breakup.
These are mental health problems.

And the rest of the book you cut and pasted here, has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Sorry But it should be Here cuz sl is all about the mind too there might not be the physical part of this in sl ... but the Emotional side of this is .... and should be brought up ..... Im should there other that .. would agree with me here too

Allana:

You gave good advice from your own personal experience. Good, but it also misses the mark.

The man you dealt with had no emotional connection to you. He was an outsider. There's a world of difference between what you went through and what happens to a person who falls in love with another and trusts them only to have their self-worth eroded through many of the tactics listed above.

It would be great if everyone is as sensible as you were. But some aren't, and some are worn down by verbal/emotional/physical abuse. Your advice is still good even for them, but the fact is, for people in that state, it's much easier to say that than to do it.

No, it's not limited to Gor, but Gor can be a haven to people who seek to manipulate and control. That is the concern, for me.

I hope everyone's noticed that the vote system is biased.

Options 2 and 3 pretty much mean the same thing so you need to add those votes together. I voted for 3, but only because I didn't read 2 properly, but they both mean the same thing to me. Freedom to do whatever the hell what you want to do as long as no one gets hurt.

I'd hate to think there's that many people who honestly think that a consentual role play between adults is a bad thing. That's just naive.

This is roleplay... it's what many of us, but not all of us do in sl, some sort of roleplay to some extent.

I believe that roleplay between two consensual adults, be it in rl or sl is acceptable behavior as long as it's between adults and is consensual.

also as i read many further post about this, I would have to agree on one thing.. There are ass****s in all walks of life. But don't let the bad apple spoil the whole bunch.

first thing i want to know is why the hell ppl have to write such long posts? things really aren't that complicated

and second, where the heck is pie in the choices? it is NOT a real poll unless there is pie!!!







Rape is a horrible thing, and feel the person should be skinned alive and fed to my dog... What two ppl decide to do to experiment or what not is none of anyones business.. well unless i want to experiment to

I think stupidity shouldn't be allowed but you see ppl still posting ><

Okay, sweetcheeks? Honey? Doll?

You do understand that there's a little X in the upper right-hand corner of the screen whenever you play SL, right?