Yay for discrimination in SL! \o/

One of my major problems with gor sims and goreans is that except for a minority, I never get the sense that goreans are Roleplaying (Hence why I think the "no furries whatsoever" to protect roleplay is BS), roleplayers and the definition of Roleplay would say that it is "To assume or act out a particular role". The problem here is that we must assume that this role is different from normal behavior and thus must have a point where someone drops the role to go to another place in SL or just to take a break, i've seen serious roleplayers go OOC before. However, I scarcely find a slave girl or master dropping the role, even when I do see them obviously talking out of roleplay in terms of Gor, she still refers to herself as this girl, and he still precedes as her master. Infact, I remember hearing of a person who came into one Gor sim, obeyed all the rules, and roleplayed. The goreans got annoyed that they were "forcing RP" and kicked them out.

This all comes from the simple truth that Gor is rarely roleplay, but functions more as a cult. One thing I notice about non-goreans who defend the goreans out of ignorance or out of the thought that it's just a harmless little fetish in the bedroom, is that they change their tune quickly if a long time friend starts to get into Gor, particularly as a slave girl. It's unfortunate, because I hear the story so much, "We've been friends for a while, and she started to try out Gor out of curiousity. I didn't think it was a big deal so I just let her do it, then after a few days of her being in it, she wasn't allowed to leave the gor sim, and she wasn't allowed to accept IMs even from her friends, she just had to study gor texts all day long. Even after her training was done, she had changed so much and her master demanded that she spend all her time with him and not talk to her old friends." That's a paraphrasing of a story i've heard on 10-12 seperate occasions from different people.

Doesn't it seem odd that Gorean "roleplay" often has training regiments for slaves, in which they aren't allowed to leave the gorean sims and must study gorean texts, not just ones that teach the basic RP and terminology, but ones that preach philosophy and behaviour, and tell of how we on Earth are doing it all wrong and they all Gor are doing everything right? Then after that, this "roleplay" often has a slave girl never going "out of character" again, and shunning all of her old friends so that her whole world of SL and people that she knows are localized in gor and support Gor. Personally, I think it sounds exactly like the tactics of cults that use brainwashing to get members.

I know that Jonas and other Goreans would disagree of course, pushing the whole "It's their free choice to be here" which is the strongest argument of a brainwashing cult, but I say again, all the people who have committed suicides because of cults were there of their own free choice as well, and that's too be expected because they are of course Gorean and wouldn't openly admit that they propogate brainwashing (despite how obvious it is). But I want to see if anyone else who isn't involved with this stuff would think about that for a bit.

Read this again and substitute AW for SL, world for sim, etc. I was there. I saw it. I know it for fact.

Funny thing is, me experiences prove you wrong.

Anecdotes like this are very powerful persuaders, but they don't actually prove anything in a scientific or logical sense.

problem is, their evidence is experonces as well.. not hard data.

Funny thing is, me experiences prove you wrong. people see what they want but even taking an unbiased stance on the issue and looking at it, I see a majority of roleplayers who can let go of the role.

I'm an avid Gor roleplayer. Do I roleplay it on SL? No.

Its gotten to the point that I am recommending this thread be locked for going offtopic.

Artemis, go do some studies..really..

No, female slaves are not lower than male ones. No, slaves DID talk third person, etc.. all things you have said that I disproved. No point in even talking the 'Unnatural' Cilis..

Yes, Selene, but Artemis' points I proved wrong with direct quotes from the books

Those are not the ones that cause the problems. It's the ones that can't/don't/won't drop the roles that invariably cause problems at some point in time and have the unhealthy state of mind.

Bottom line for you kiddies following along at home, that means it is true, these acts, the training, the requirements, its all real. Don't "experiment" with gor unless you understand that you might get a bad partner who draws it, and you, into real life and turns you into a sex slave who never does anything of worth for herself, outside of pleasing a man... and what makes a man worth that much?

Also in terms of brainwashing that Cilis brought up, the third person thing is an interesting issue because no where in any of the books once do any of the slaves talk in third person. Third person is a brainwashing tactic that makes a person define themselves no longer as "I" but "They" as in something outside of themselves. Makes them think of themselves as less human and more of an object which helps greatly in brainwashing.

What do you propose be done about them?

Gor = appalling people all determined to draw unsuspecting females into a REAL life world

Selene, I used the book to disprove her comments of 'the books say this' etc. Perfect example:



then my post proving her wrong..she stated the books say one thing and they say another

Many times

At this point I would say its artemis and cilis whos brainwashed, with false 'facts' and theories

Gorean-style S&M is kinda the flavor of the decade right now, both for the doers and the naysayers. In a year or two you'll see islands of scantily clad Kitsunes having sex with demon masters or something and Gor will exist for the die-hards only. Hell, we're already starting to see the changeover by the establishment of furry culture.

Turgar, the sad fact is there are those who use Gor to do just that. And that is what people object to so strongly. I came dangerously close to falling into the same trap myself. Fortunately there were those who cared enough about me. If Gor was used strictly for roleplaying and nothing more most people would have no objection to it. But, for too many, it goes way beyond simply roleplaying. And that is where the problems lay.

I know what I am about to suggest may sound discriminatory, that is not my intent. It's simply the only viable solution I can see that would work for all concerned. That solution would be to create a grid for the Goreans and restrict them from bringing thier "roleplaying" onto the main grid by making it a banable offense. This is not to single the Goreans out or those who are into BDSM etc and punish them. I'm not saying deny them access to the main grid. I'm simply saying that when they do come onto the mainland grid to leave Gor/BDSM on thier grid. And, no, I don't think all roleplaying groups should be placed on thier own grids. I'm not suggesting restricting access of their grid either. All I am saying is give them thier own grid, leave Gor/BDSM at the door when they enter the main grid and we will see alot of the arguing/fussing/fighting/griefing etc dissappear.

Turgar, the sad fact is there are those who use Gor to do just that. And that is what people object to so strongly. I came dangerously close to falling into the same trap myself. Fortunately there were those who cared enough about me. If Gor was used strictly for roleplaying and nothing more most people would have no objection to it. But, for too many, it goes way beyond simply roleplaying. And that is where the problems lay.

Selene



Interesting concept......I simply think however, that once you start down a path of banning ANY group on the mainland, it's a slippery slope. In an ideal world, Goreans would own their own sims. We'd all love to. Sadly the cost is prohibitive. There are numerous safeguards in place on the mainland.... from land tools for people to ban from their land, to AR's if someone is offended. What for example do I do on my OWN piece of land? (mainland grid obviously.) ....not practice Gor in case someone happens to fly by?
I would LOVE to ban the "impeach Bush" guy. It isn't going to happen. Regardless of how many posts have been made about him, it is decreed he has rights. And so the obvious solution lies in land tools....and greater control on them. Perhaps more parameters to distinguish... (brainstorming...im not a tecchy...
Besides which, as we've tried to point out....not ALL Gorean RP'ers simply want to exist in nothing but Gor.
personally I enjoy ALL facets of SL..... I enjoy flying around and visiting builds..... shopping.... walking along the roads in search of interesting locations. Would I choose to be ghetto'd?.....no.

I'm not saying deny them access to the main grid. I'm simply saying that when they do come onto the mainland grid to leave Gor/BDSM on thier grid.... I'm not suggesting restricting access of their grid either.

...or turn you to the dark Side...