Yay for discrimination in SL! \o/

Three words: Dead Dog Party.

Any fur care to explain?

I don't even know that one.

What on earth?

(google search)

http://www.deaddogparty.com/

What's a Dead Dog Party? Sounds gross!

Back in my old science fiction and comic con days, a dead dog party was the last scheduled event of a 3 or 4 day fan convention. The purpose was what we call in the tech industry a "post mortem": a meeting where you go over what was right and wrong for the project. By then everyone's dogs (feet) are all tired, so the con's last meeting was called a dead dog party.

When I started a BBS (bulletin board service, what you called up with your modem before the internet became popular) I wanted a theme for the BBS, and I decided it would try to be an online convention. So I named the BBS "Dead Dog Party." When I killed the BBS due to not having enough phone lines, I transferred the name to my website and obtained the domain name. The site is not much about sci-fi or comics conventions anymore. Hey, my life changed and I've half gafiated. The site undergoes constant change which is why the various pages look different from each other.

(wiki search)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_dog_party

Ceremony or not, a dead dog party is likely to be held. This is the traditional winding-down party where few of the attendees are likely to have huge amounts of energy. This party is an attempt to ease people back into the real world outside of convention and can be an effective method of warding off the depression, which is often associated with the end of a major event. Analogies can be drawn to the decompression parties following large events such as Burning Man.

Ask around =)

Oooh are you trying to bring up the CSI party or the fact that people *gasp* have sex at conventions? ( You know, CSI does put up "dramatization" warnings for a reason... Duh! )

Whats so wrong about that? I don't THINK its unique to furries

Well... there is no furry handbook at least so forgive the lack of communication, we don't get together and suddenly decide to keep random groups of people away from our subculture so we really dont need to keep in touch consistantly!

Oh well like I said I don't want anything to do with their sims anymore, for moral reasons... I don't care how pretty a set of buildings are if they hide an inherant uglyness.

Don't know anything about the Goreans, or their overall thoughts or attitudes on furs, present or past.

However, in order to be consistent with what I posted in the FurNation thread, I would have to say that whatever rules the sim owners wish to set regarding their owned area ought to be followed by those who would enter into it, even if they aren't fair to all.

In a sense, all owned areas are private, and subject to the authority of the people who own it, because their authority comes from the people who run this game. This gives them the authority to allot permissions to whom they will or will not allow in, and set the guidelines for them to remain, so long as those guidelines fall within the ToS.

I consider the style of avatar and dress to be behavorial, and as such any sim may choose to disallow certain kinds of avatars or attire from their land, for whatever reason they wish, even if I believe the reason to be a bad reason. It is the responsibility of the guest to either live up to the guidelines set, or to move to another area.

Truly public sims are not overly common (mainly places of learning for new SL residents), although most I've been to have fairly relaxed standards, and in all practicality function as a public gathering place.

OK, but... what's the difference in taking the extreme end of one group and painting the whole group as bad because of it, as you have done, and someone else doing the same to the group you belong to?

I mean, if you're going to judge all Gor as bad because of a few bad agents, wouldn't the same be true of Furries?

My last post that you responded to, look at it.

Twice I say "Goreans that take it into real life"

That should be enough for you to know I am not attacking the people that are just dabbling in it lightly, I just hope they have the good sense to get out if they don't love themselves to begin with, because if you don't you leave yourself as a target for the worst sort.

Also how is having sex bad? every person here today is a result of sex... and no, its not some wild orgy, many long time, online relationship partners meet up at conventions before taking their relationship to the next level, moving closer to each other.... because it is a somewhat safe, common middle ground for both parties, it isn't the home turf of either.

I said that?! Where?



Look, anyone who says Furry *or* Gor isn't about sex is trying to sell you something. Can't everyone just be honest for a change?'

Well, that seems to be your reason for bringing up dead dog parties, sex.

I wasn't saying we arn't sexual, some of us are and we are proud of it! The fact is not being shy of sex doesnt automatically make us card carrying members of the grand orgy group. Yes, some people go to cons to see one another and hook up but in most cases they've been seeing each other online for a hell of a long time to start with.

There are plenty of furry websites and sims, by the way, that are "No sex" there are plenty of furries who are "No sex" so that is a broader generalization than mine, at least I said I was angry at the real life practice, and I will admit to an *extent* the game practice too, because its how *some* people browse for new slaves to take to real life.

On the whole I don't approve of both because it alters peoples self worth, purposely, in the way that it is set up, but I mostly dislike the real life 24/7 gorean types.

Yeah, and there are "white silk" slaves, too.

I still maintain that both subcultures, when you get down to it, are about sex. Say it's about getting in touch with your animal nature, or the natural order, or your true selves, or whatever, but at the end of the night, it all comes down to pixel and/or skin and/or fur slapping.

Neither group has cornered the market on unhealthy behavior, either.

Cilis...I think you've made it quite clear that you disapprove of the Gorean way, and I just want to stress that there are a greater proportion of people here who are NOT Gorean in RL, and think it's important that that is made clear. Second Life is all about an "alternative" chance of life, as it were.
I myself am non too fond of "watersports"... you are a member of a Watersports group. Your choice. Do you carry that into RL?...again I don't know, I just see SECOND LIFE. Personal choice.
Bottom line....anyone tuning in now can pretty much see which side of the divide the main protagonists lie. Perhaps it's time for a whole sub-forum where it can be carried on... as this particular thread simply seems to be going around in circles.

*grins* nice to see I made such an impression as to your checking my in game profile for dirt. I really and truely appricate the effort you put into it!

As to would I carry it on in real life? so long as that person had an STD test, I trusted them, and I knew them long enough to know that they weren't swapping partners and endangering my safty.... but then again everyone should be so wise about all of their sexual practices.

I realise that at least, as a bare minimum, 80% of the people in gorean culture online dont have intentions of carrying it out in real life... that still doesn't make me feel any less compassion for people in that 20%

No one should live in a house where they are not allowed on furnature but the family dog is.

Ho-hum. Yet another version of Your Kink Is Not OK (YKINOK).

For fun, I also checked out the profile, and the Watersports group. Most everyone in it also belongs to a Furry group. Just thought that was interesting.

You know, glass houses, stones, and all.

It is their choice, since no one, except the Lindens, can force anyone to do something they don't want. Just as you make a choice in being who and what you are in SL.

So, you want to take away their freedom to chose to be a slave, if that is their wish? How about banning furries next? Some people take that RL too, you know. Roughly the same number of Furries take it RL as do Goreans. (sarcasm is a wasted thing, I know, but it's mine to waste )

Frankly, what consenting adults do in their own sim or private place is NONE of my concern. If they wanna yiff, great or if they wanna do the whole sub/dom thing, fine. As long as everyone is consenting and adult, I'm cool with it.

I ponder visiting some Gorean sims.. since I've visited the Furry ones. Must keep a balance, there.

So, if I make an avatar of a Priest King which is definitly a furry character, do they ban me as well? I mean, they are in the Gorean stories...

Show me where I said they should be banned from second life? I never said that and it is my right to speak out against something I think is wrong, mainly I think my points about gor as a culture, not their sim rules, stand pretty well for the real life counter part, and as I've made clear I only really speak out AGAINST it in real life, what I speak out against IN GAME is banning people in such a way.

Show me where furries do anything that is sexually dangerous AND is unique to the furry population? Nothing is unique to us, thats why the furry sub-culture us so large, we don't wholesale tell anyone anything is wrong and we leave it up to personal morals... if the average morals of the average person are screwed up that isn't exactly "our" fault.

So I ask you, show me where furries have a practice we expect everyone to follow in real life that causes harm... we don't

The only thing the gorean culture has in common with the furry culture, exclusively, is that they are both subcultures rooted in fantasy, you can keep all that harmful stuff exclusive if you want, I don't want it.

YKINOK my butt, a kink is something you enjoy now and then, a fetish is something you have to have, a lifestyle....gorean is a lifestyle in real life.

As for so many furries in the group, I know for a fact you didnt go profile by profile and count it up... but whatever, WS didn't start in the furry culture, it started way before that.

The "ban you next" sounds more like "Stop airing our dark side, we might try to make you next"

If its the truth, why fear it? its just a game after all, no reason in the ToS that you could be removed... but I think its fair for every girl out there to know what might be expected of her should she get into the culture.

If your argument turns out tarded - morph it round and try again.

They don't have to let you on their land.

And your friend sounds like a tard with mental issues.

Honestly, this is like some sort of campaign to make it seem like furries are all fursecution-complex whiners. Blimey.

Actually someone tried that and they did.

Also in terms of brainwashing that Cilis brought up, the third person thing is an interesting issue because no where in any of the books once do any of the slaves talk in third person. Third person is a brainwashing tactic that makes a person define themselves no longer as "I" but "They" as in something outside of themselves. Makes them think of themselves as less human and more of an object which helps greatly in brainwashing.

And Jonas, atleast I researched this stuff before I made claims, if you're going to read that "Freewomen are the most respected member of the community" quote:



Then read the next part and most of all read between the lines



Gor was written by a guy who had problems with women outsmarting him and manipulating him all his life, so he made this whole fantasy world where Men outsmarted women and all women were sex toys.

And you point out that the slaves are more "free" because they can sleep around, that's Sexual freedom, not freedom. There's a difference. Unless of course, like John Norman, you define a woman as only a creature of sex. Just a walking vagina.

Here's a whole page of quotes from the books that I found each basically saying why either a.) Freewomen suck, or b.) all women want to be slaves

Freewomen suck quotes

And with that mentality of women being stupid and weaker there is a sense that Men who are slaves in Gor are just temporarily enslaved and shamed Free Men, whereas Women who get enslaved in Gor are suddenly in their natural and right place in society. Which makes male slaves a place of shame but in terms of pecking order and respect, males are always higher in Gor.

Obviously, you are still lacking research. Do you even read gor books?

'Do you repent of the error of your ways?' I asked.
'Yes, Master, ' she said.
'Who repents of the error of her ways?' I asked.
'Tafa repents of the error of her ways!' she said. 'Who is sorry, who begs forgiveness?' I asked.
'Tafa is sorry! Tafa begs forgiveness!' she said.
"Magicians of Gor" p. 123

"You are in the first group, twenty-third girl," I said. "I hear among the men that you are quite good."
"A girl is greatful," she said, "If men should find her pleasing."
Tribesman of Gor, PG 345

"A girl asks permission to call her Master by his name," she said
"It is denied," I said. (4 lines skipped)
"A girl has been punished by her Master." she said.
Tribesman of Gor PG 360

"Do not sell Ilene in Port Kar," said Ileane, snuggling up against me. "Sell another girl in Port Kar," she whispered, "not Ilene."
Hunters of Gor...pg. 221

"Does Phyllis remember the lash?" asked Flaminius.
The girl's eyes widened with fear. "Yes," she said.
"Then say so," said Flaminius.
I whispered in Gorean to Ho-Tu, as though I could not understand what was transpiring. "What is he doing with them?"
Ho-Tu shrugged. "He is teaching them they are slaves," he said.
"I remember the lash," said Phyllis.
"Phyllis remembers the lash," corrected Flaminius.
"I am not a child!" she cried.
"You are a slave," said Flaminius.
"No," she said "No!"
"I see," said Flaminius sadly, "it will be necessary to beat you."
"Phyllis remembers the lash," said the girl numbly.
"Excellent," said Flaminius. "Phyllis will be good. Phyllis will eat her gruel. Phyllis will drink her water."
She looked at him with hatred.
His eyes met hers and they conquered. She dropped her head, turning it to one side.
"Phyllis will be good," she said. "Phyllis will eat her gruel. Phyllis will drink her water."
"Excellent," commended Flaminius.
p.131, Assassin of Gor


`Who!' she demanded.
`I did,' I cried. `I did!'
`Speak as a slave!' demanded Ute.
`El-in-or betrayed Ute!' I cried. `El-in-nor betrayed Ute!'
Captive of gor pg 287

'May your slave attempt to please her Master?'
'Yes,' I told her. She fell to kissing me, with the lascivious, wanton joy of the slave girl, given no choice but to reveal and liberate, and act upon, completely and with perfection, her deepest, most hidden desires, even though she might in misery, scorn herself for possessing them.
pg 296 Marauders of GOR

"Please, Master!" I whimpered.
"Do you beg? he asked.
"yes, Master!" i said.
"Who begs?" he asked.
"Tuka, the slave of Teibar of Ar, begs" I moaned.
Dancer of Gor, page 466


You were completely wrong about male/female slaves, and completely wrong now.. all because you didn't do research.

I'll grant you that, that it does happen sometimes and I was wrong about that one, but i'll also state that it doesn't happen always, slave girls in the community are literally forced to talk in third person because it is the "gorean way" but in the books it is not a fundamental part of it all.

I'll also point out that in terms of your research again, to look at those freewomen quotes especially the one where they talk about how gorean freewomen are so respected and at the same time they're all desiring to be slave girls. It's undeniable that Free-women of gor in the books are made out to be envying slave girls and because of this they lash out in other ways, like being cold, deceptive, and manipulative.

I'll also point out again, the use of Orwell's doublethink in Gor books, "Slavery is Freedom" and such. Another important part of brainwashing a person.

I don't require my slaves to talk in third except during training or punishment. That is from the 'el-in-or and ute' convo by the way...

I -do- require lower case, no capped I's for instance. And that is a holdover from BDSM.

I have no moral complaint against furries, or goreans, or submissive housewives, or sexually assertive roleplayers... etc etc. What you choose to do to get yourself wet or hard is absolutely none of my business. Personally, I'd like to keep it that way.

If you can only buy clothing that your master/mistress will like, ask them, not me, what you should buy. Don't stop for hours on end, in the middle of my store, pondering loudly what your master/mistress would like to see you in, and asking me to help you. I get it.... you'tre turned on by not being allowed an opinion... That's fine, and it's you're deal... but that doesn't make it my deal, my problem, or what my customers want to hear. That's for you to discuss with your master/mistress. Please, please don't go around SL acting as if anyone but you is impressed with you not being able to think for yourself, because most of us simply aren't impressed.

What you do in private is none of my business, which is perfectly fine with me, but don't force it on me and all of my customers and then claim it's only your business.

Really, I beg you, keep it to yourself, and it will remain your business.

Like I said, proof of a brainwashing tactic.

Goreans that live the lifestyle in real life, and try to bring more "slaves" into their care through secondlife practice brainwashing. The light, sunday warrior goreans may not but its not going to stop me from being disgusted with hearing anyone refer to themselves in a way not natural.

A concept of self is very important, and training someone to speak like that is altering a fundimental part of their self worth.

So I was right for once

Not neccessarilly, Cilis. I helped my eldest brother research a book on the BSDM lifestyle, including Gor and other slave-master societies, as well as more generic BDSM lifestules, and the general concesus was that Sub's always have the power.

I still don't want the shit acted out in the middle of my store any more than I'd want any other sexual masturbation in the middle of my store, but them's the facts.