Yay for discrimination in SL! \o/

post 254 of this thread. ^.-

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Didn't say it wasn't their right, said it wasn't right in my opinion and that if they are allowing non-rp visitors with tags then it shouldn't matter what AV a visitor is wearing if they are visiting and wearing said tag because they are supposedly invisible in a RP sense anyway. If they can't make that distinction without banning certain AVs then that speaks more to their inability to RP than any real 'this is for RP reasons' excuse.

But I think the underlaying factor is most of the one's whom actively enforce this ban get off on the perceived sense of power it gives them over other agents and that ties in nicely to their little BSDM power trip, and has no real bearing to RP at all as evidenced by them not having such restrictions and sanctions on non-rp visitors and the AVs they wore in the past.

As former Umbra of Tharna (No joke, but any Gorean reading it worth their weight in beans might think it is) I do have to say, Gorean sims try to simulate the Gor novels as approximately as possible. That said, a stray dragon or anthro snow leopard attracting attention to themselves draws attention away from the sim, what its about and defeats the rules against sticking to the Gor sim rules. They dont stick those notecard givers out there for no reason folks.

As has been said many times, its not discrimination, its selective entry. All true Gorean sims are grouped together on a single Island chain, think of this as a privately owned Island. You dont float your boat on up to it and decide whats acceptable and not, not your place to do so. Now then, there are quite a few instances of closed mindedness here and there. I myself am banned from Ar, this doesnt reflect on all the Gorean sims, or those that run them.

-Heir
Furry, Undead, Human, Robot and all around pain in the ass

Honestly, I don't know what the heck your point was here, so I'm guessing you didn't understand the point I was trying to make.

I was not referring to the era of slavery, but the one that came after. Where slaves were no longer allowed, but treating descendents of slaves as subhuman was legally sanctioned in some parts of the country. Other parts of the country did not legalize such treatment *but did it anyway.* Is the picture clearer yet?



Well, no one said you had to like it. In fact, no one said you had a right to go through life unoffended.



We (as human beings... heck, probably even as furries) discriminate *all the time.* Do you want to trust that man who wants your money or not? Does he look trustworthy? Do I want to give the person with a history of robbing banks a job as a security guard? That person with a history of abusing children a job in a day care center?

All forms of discrimination. All legal. All done with arguably good reason.

You might not agree with the reason in this case, as is your right.

Really, let's end our tete-a-tete. It's pointless.

It all boils down to..do furries detract from the rp environs?

Thats up to the sim owner to decide, and ban if he or she sees fit.

You know, if this is such a big issuie, fork up 200 bucks and make a Gorean sim right next door. There are bad aliens in the Gor books who bear a striking resemblance to a certain species of Anthro...

Heh. Troublemaker

Still a poor analogy to the current situation I think, which was in fact my point, don't oft hear tell of those Harlem, Chicago, or Maine lynching do you? Better yet a less americanized example would be France. Still prefer Gabe's analogy which I think is more apt and relevant to the current topic.

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Gee, ok... reading back here... still reading... hmm. Nope, not seeing where I asked for anyone's leave to not like that policy. Hmm... and ....umm.... nope, don't see where I need anyone's permission to state my dislike of the inconsistent and in my view intolerant policies of gor in regards to non-rp visitors.

Neat! Glad I hadn't said I did need permission or boy howdy would my face be red! ^.^





Answered in order;

Depends on the man and the context.

Books and covers and something about depth inserted here. I, for choice, prefer to judge by more than appearance. Millage varies as I understand it. ^.^

As before, depends on the man and the context.

Likely not, but it has little relevance to the current topic of how AV choice affects a tagged non-rp agent in a sim or whether its right to discriminate based on the AVs an agent that is supposedly 'invisible'/non-rp tagged in the first place (noticed I said whether it was right or not, not wether it was allowed or not).



Aww, well if you want to. Here are some more cute kittens and completely 110% condescension free!

http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/kitten_cute.jpg

Feel the love? I like to think the wee one's name is Lil' Missy Gor and the other Mr. Popikins Furry.

I owned a Gor sim..... you may remeber The Wilderness.... I ended up giving it away and leaving SL for several months. When I returned I figured out almost instantly why I had left. SL Gor thrives on constant squabbles and drama.... I must say, now I am much happier for leaving the drama behind and I am not the first or only one who has left and has found living with out the drama is so much better. Seems to me that's one of the reasons the original Port Kar broke off also.

In interest of history, I checked. The table I found didn't break it out by city, but there was one lynching of a Black person in New York, 19 in Illinois, and none in Maine. Even 3 in North Dakota. ^.^



Hm. And I looked back, read, read more... and gosh! I never specified you. You in the English language can apply to you yourself, or just about anyone. Quite an assumption to believe everything is about you. ^.^

Kitten yourself crazy. ^.^

Still think its a poor analogy, but out of curiosity how may does that table estimate in the south and how is that a relevant/good analogy and not simply hyperbole as opposed to Gabe's?

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Still little to do with your assertion that there was some how some moral relevance because a friend of yours happened to be randomly griefed by some furry AV in a fur themed sim (most have a policy of inclusiveness and against such behaviour). Or how gor has recently installed a stated, active, supported and sanctioned intolerant policy in regards to attachments and AVs visiting agents (whom are supposedly invisible in terms of RP anyway) can or can't wear and how one is just random arse griefer and the other is a scantioned ego boo to those whom play in a system of getting off on ordering around, being in control of, and even 'killing' (via ban) other residents legal in LL's eyes or no.





Aww gee, sorry. I guess when you were referring to "you" and doing so following a quoted passage of mine I just naturally assumed you were talking about/to me. ^.^ See I was always taught if it was in general terms to use a denotation like "No one said _everyone_ (or anyone would do too I suppose) had to like it" as opposed to "'No one said 'you' had to like it."

I'm sure you can see where my confusion came from. ^.-



Hey now! I already linked to that site!

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See right at the bottom!



^.-

*goes off and makes a priest-king avatar*

Ha! lets see them kick me out now! *grins*

Actualy at onetime that was true but as Gor grew in SL many new sims have been developed that are not tied to the original continent started by Marak running Port Kar. The original Port Kar sim, in fact, has split from this very continent, it is now Port Cos.

They're are many sims, some of which include: Treve, Turia, Lydius, Port Kar, Ko-ro-ba, Sardar, Tyros, and of course Port Cos.. I am sure there are more that I may have missed. The original continent is not the sole holding for Gorean lands anymore.

Aradon Psaltery
Administrator of Port Cos
Warrior Caste

Last post to you, I promise. It has, for the most part, been a collosal time waster for both of us. We fundamentally see this two different ways, and I doubt anything could be said that would make us agree.



Answer part a) go look for yourself if you want to add them up

Answer part b) absolutely NOTHING. We've talked ourselves off-topic. I see the valid analogy there; you do not. Frankly, I don't give a damn anymore.



Repeat: I see a valid comparison; you do not. Frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. Further discussion along these lines is pointless.



"Intolerant," I'm sure you know, is a loaded term. To you it is intolerant; to others, it is not.

The difference between you and me: I have no moral problem with people excluding some people from their sim *as long as* the reason for exclusion is something the excludee can change. If I don't like said rules and don't want to make that change, I won't go there. SL is big enough to accomodate both me and whatever sim I don't enjoy.

You, on the other hand, seem to have a problem with that and believe people should be allowed access anywhere in any form (with the possible exception of violating the PG/M restrictions). Or do I misunderstand?

Moreover, the owners of those sims don't owe you an explanation as to why they have the rules they do. Do you feel you are entitled to one?

Or, really, don't answer, because I won't reply to it.

Well, I, for one, welcome our new priest-king overlords.

The comparisons between Jim Crow South and Gor are flawed.

You /cannot/ change the colour of your skin. You /can/ change your avatar.

I find such comparisons to be, to put it as politely as possible, bullpucky.

Incorrect, Gorean lifestyle is practiced in real life.

By consenting adults. However, even then, it is to a certain extent "roleplay" - after all, we do not have a "Counter-Earth" no matter how some people wish for it.

... you mean they really fly around on giant winged beasts and abduct women, forcing them into a life of sexual slavery?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Gor... but I don't think they're any kinkier than most of the BDSM crowd. The thing that makes it roleplay... in Second Life and Real Life as well... is the word 'consensual'. Someone can claim to be a slave all they want to... at the end of the day, it is their decision, and theirs alone, to remain subservient. If someone in Real Life were to abduct and brand a woman, the authorities would lock them right the hell up... that pretty much puts a crimp in trying to live out a 'true to fiction' Gor lifestyle. Well, the aspect of Gor that seems to have everyone's attention, anyway.

Didn't think it had much relevance which is why I asked. S'ok though, I still think Gabe's post-analogy was a bit more in line with the current topic, which was why I kept bringing it up cause I'd already replied to him. ^.^

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Agree to disagree it is then. I just don't see the parallel between one random agents actions and that of an entire community's (sims and various attached groups and all) sanctioned intolerant policy.




A little actually yes. My point has always been (consistently through out the thread) that what the gor sims do is perfectly legal and is their right under the terms of their lease of server space from Linden Labs. Where we seem to be having the break down in communication/understanding is where I think its wrong of them to do so and their reasons (put forward so far) are very weak at best.

If it were about RP then a set of fangs and a tail that peaked out from a full body cloak when one's agent walked from building to building with a Non-RP tag worn properly would not sound like a valid reason for harassment and then banning regardless of whether they have the right to do so. Nor would having a set of fangs, or pointed ears and grey skin in my view be valid reasons to harass, cage, push and then a properly tagged Non-Rp visitor. More over make it a policy of the sims in question where those activities are not only sanctioned but encouraged.

I find it distasteful and discriminatory. Legal? Allowed? Yes, but none the less intolerant and something I chose to avoid. S'all I've been saying.




If the sims in question were invisible to the rest of the grid or were invite only then no, they wouldn't owe anyone an explanation. That however isn't the case and the recently changed policies in regards to AV and attachment restrictions are new and in my view unfair and further more inconsistent with previous policies. More over the reasons of being 'disruptive' to RP, in particular seems more to be just an excuse to bully, cage, and play-kill, and 'dom' agents whom do not acquiesce to being ordered (which shouldn't be happening if they are Non-rp visitors anyway unless actively griefing) about which is core to gor, or thats my impression.




Okies, sorry hon. Waste or no was nice talking through a thread without all the name calling and insults one usually get. Cheers!

http://image.pbase.com/u27/indigo997/upload/16379359.kitten.jpg

LMAO smart aleck. =P I didn't mean they practice it totally.

Well, yeah, I was being a bit of a smart-Alix, but I've seen roleplaying bashed by so many people because 'ZOMG they do this and IT'S REAL'. You know the kind, the 'Dungeons and Dragons ate my baby!' people. Not to say I think you are one of that sort, but your post could have been interpreted that way (mostly due to brevity, rather than tone or actual content). Sorry if I offended.

Alas, that was not the gist of it. The gist of it is whether or not one is better: to have laws written that are discriminatory (the South) or unwritten discriminatory laws (the North). 'Nuff said.


*edit*

Heh... outting myself. 'tis Lorelei, posting on an alt. Should have payed attention as to who I was logged in as. Oops!

Either way it was (as was eventually admitted to) a poor analogy (because the comparison doesn't really jibe with the reality when looking at both groups in question. One openly and actively supports an intolerant policy the other by and large has no policy and of those that do, it is one of inclusiveness and openness) and off-topic.

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A better analogy (one more in line with the topic at hand) would be;

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haha, difference between fantasy and real life, saids so in the D&D books!

Dude! I am RPing a gelatinous cube, and I demand human rights!
Prime Directive: Nobody gets to eat Jello.