New Zindra Blog Post

Along with a few mini-baron wantabees that were clever enough to beat some of you to the ticket line. It can be an interesting experience to check out who's on Zindra now, and dig up the profile trail through the web of group affiliations. I spent part of my day yesterday doing just that very thing.

Adult Oriented content controls: definitions meeting transcript....


Q: You talked about sex bots and having sex, but someone has mentioned that having sex in your own home is not adult content. But would be maybe mature content.

But isn't sex, sex? Isn't that going to be ... if someone wants to have sex in their own home isn't that adult content and shouldn't that be put on adult places?

A: That's a very good point. And it's a very primary point here in the purpose of what we're doing. What we're trying to do here is give our users, our Residents, more predictability and control over their experiences, their experience in search and their experiences in terms of what they encounter, what's displayed to them, etc.

And what that means is that we want a way to provide some controls over very public, publicly visible and publicly engaging forms of simulated sexual content. So if you are just doing something in your own home, that doesn't fall into that whole kind of paradigm, because you're not really bumping up against a lot of other Residents. It's a fairly isolated experience.

I'm trying to avoid potential double entendres but ...

Q: Someone has a home on a PG sim, no sex should be allowed. Is that correct?

A: If you are on a PG sim, that would be correct. And people that are going to gravitate towards PG, we think will be probably a minority of the Residents in Second Life. People that want a somewhat insulated experience, but you're right, there would be no sexual activity there. The broader mass of events and activities would be in what we are calling now "mature" Region.

And there if you have a home, you're not in search, you're not in classifieds. You're not holding events. You are not inviting people in, engaging people to come in to your place. That's not what we are trying to regulate here.

Q: I was going... I want to underline what somebody just wrote in to chat. I think that one of the most common sense approaches that you can take here is to define public versus private. I mean, I think that that is a really key thing to do here.

Because I think it's people's sense of privacy. I think there's a lot of mixing up of that in Second Life where people are doing things that really should be done in private, doing them publicly.

I really think that that would be a good ting to do. And it would also take us away from the politicalization of the topic. People are making this a political free speech type of thing. Anyway, what have you guys thought about for that?


A: Well, yeah, absolutely that's a key distinction and it's a distinction that's going to be included in the definitions. It's something that I think we take your point that it's' something that we have to make up front in a very clear way to avoid misunderstandings.

So I think we agree with you.

Yes, it's a little more granular than that, but that's a Twitter version of the definition she asked. So to the point about public versus private, it's interesting because we don't define what we think about as public and private in the current draft of the definitions.

Our proxy for that has been search. And the keywords that a user decides to attach to his or her parcel as the determinant for whether it would be primarily directed to an adult audience or not.

I think in effect what we're saying is if you are in an active way inviting the rest of the community in, then that is going to be judged as public. And the way that we gauge that is whether you are in fact in search or in classifieds, etc, because practically speaking that is how people invite the rest of the world in.

Q: I had a couple of things I wanted to say, so I will say another one. I think in addition to defining public versus private fairly, explicitly, and verbally and stuff, I think this may be a little bit what Melody is trying to get at.

We need rules of thumb or simple sayings that will allow us to decide what goes where. Like Melody was saying, you could have sex at home in mature. I can't remember what she said, but I think it would be good to have like a rule of thumb.

When I was here last time joking, I said, "Would you do it in front of your grandmother?" That is kind of a flippant way of doing it, but to have something like that; a question that you could answer yes or no that would help you decide where to put it, if that would be at all possible.

A lens through which people could look at whatever is in question and say, "Well yes. That is probably adult." There is never going to be a bright line test, because the content is so vast and it is limited only by people's imaginations.

But I think based on our real life experiences, we can...

Q: I agree with that, but the thing that I keep coming back to in my mind is that...And I know that there are national differences. But it really does seem to me that people have a pretty good sense of how to act in public. They have a pretty good sense of what they should and shouldn't do in situations where they have to be careful how they act.

If we could just somehow get a hold of whatever that is as a guideline, not a judgment; simply a guideline for people.

I think the easiest thing to define is going to be PG versus everything else. PG is going to be extremely sanitized, whereas mature and adult is going to be a harder definition to define between mature and adult.

How far do we go to be an adult and how loose do we get to be mature? I think the definition of PG is going to be pretty simple. This is not a comment about letting kids on the grid, but with PG, would we let the kids here?

I think we pretty much know PG is going to be like that. So now the definition is how do we...pretty much exactly. Leave your clothes on. Be nice. Don't use words like I use and no sex poles!

But the hard part is going to be defining what is mature and what is adult.

A: You are right, and that is the piece that we hit up against most often. How do you define for everybody in the world who has an individual and very personal point of view of what is publicly acceptable?

How do you define for them in a way that is easy for all of those different people to understand the difference between what is mature and what is adult, which is why I keep running up against the word mature as a very poor one for describing the general experience that you would expect to have when you come to Second Life, which is partially why we are here talking to you; so you can help us think it through, because it is very complicated.

Actually I am really not helping a whole lot of help here in what I am saying, except that yes, I think that that in general is correct. I think that mature is private and adult is more public.

I think there is something around the idea of inviting engagement in a public way to the experience that you are providing versus a private way.

i think a lot are missing what had been considered mature and adult while the meetings were going on..
is private sexual content and activities considered adult content or mature content??
we know publicity of it is considered Adult..so adult would not be allowed in mature areas or mainlands..
it mentions adult content in the CS but it does not explain what adult content and activities are until you get to the adult maturity definitions..this is why the KB is so important..it tells you what adult content is..and in those definitions it is all about publicizing it makes it adult content..not publicizing it and keeping it in private makes it mature content and activities..

This means, I can buy a set of Dolcett Barbecue Equipment on Zindrulski, then I tp home, then I do rezzing the items on the table of my home/office livingroom and start to toast some willing naked female avatars for breakfast and call that: mature?

Problem: my superstylish home-office-combi has complete transparent windows without tinting for extraordinaire important design reasons.

But it is a private property, non advertised.

So, while my breakfast is getting ready and while I am looking through my notecards and IMs for daily news and custom prefab orders and something, a G-Team Member makes a nordic-walking fitness tour through my hillside property and suddenly the flavor of my breakfast comes to his or her curious nose and in sight of his or her hungry eyes.

What then?

Suspension - or just a friendly "Good morning Sir, bon appetito Senor, have a nice and successful day, enjoy your toast"?

This is the question on which no Linden has an answer so far.

Also I do not know, what will happen, if I hang my ultraexplicite original artwork at my panels on my megatransparent windows.

This was made while my former studies of art at one of the most renowned academy of arts in Germany, but it is, I cannot change it, adult themed.

Can I expect, that potential Abuse Reporters or G-Team-Members are Porfessors of Art, to be able to judge such a piece of art correct and without making trouble?

And what is, if I come spontaneous to the smart idea, to sell my piece of art and to resell the Dolcett Equipment because it is boring to use it more than one day?

Well, hehehe, I ask not you, but if a Linden reads here...goes the question to them...

There are some landowners and Residents who desire a Second Life experience distinct from the activity that occurs in Mature and Adult Regions. Region owners who wish to host this sort of Second Life experience can (but need not) designate their Regions as PG. A Region may be designated PG if it does not advertise or make available content or activity that's sexually explicit, violent or depicts nudity. Likewise, sexually-oriented objects such as "sex beds" or poseballs may not be located or sold in PG regions.

The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use. Any Region must be designated Adult and therefore require account verification, if it advertises or publicly promotes the following:

* Representations of intensely violent acts, whether or not photo-realistic (for example, depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm)
* Photo-realistic nudity; photo-realistic means that an image either is or cannot be distinguished from a photograph
* Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities (whether or not photo-realistic); we will broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct

In the FAQs below, we offer examples as to what types of Regions are and are not considered adult, based on, for example, distinctions between "public" and "private" content, as well as distinctions between content that is "expressly sexually themed" and content that is not.

Linden Lab has created a special-use "Adult Continent" -- a "mainland" alternative where adult content and activities can be located and found by Residents. Landowners wishing to host adult activities or make available adult content can either

* Locate on this Adult Continent
* Locate on a Region that has been designated by its owner as Adult

Region owners are responsible for designating a Region's maturity level. Occupants of Regions will be expected to locate in a Region suitable to each occupant's content and conduct.

In trying to find the quote from Cyn Linden at a Brown Bag meeting, I'm finding that the transcript posters didn't say who said what.

Can anyone point me to where Cyn said something like, "I don't see why anyone affected by this would be denied a swap" or even "I don't see a problem with anyone requesting....being denied"

Or Jack saying "Those impacted...."
Suddenly it's turned into only "commercialized" and I'd like to hit them with their own quotes.

Over and over and over Jack and Blondin stressed it was "advertizing" not "commercial"

Over and over and over Jack and Blondin stressed it was "advertizing" not "commercial"

I logged in today to find one of the Land Barons that managed to get a swap, now selling the entire (untouched) sim for L$1,000,000 (>L$15 sqm)

Can anyone tell me how LL can justify allowing that person to swap land in the first place??

The AV that asked for the swap should be banned and the Linden that allowed it severely disciplined - as far as I'm concered it's fraud - L$1,000,000 in RL money is over $3,500.
Gomez

I logged in today to find one of the Land Barons that managed to get a swap, now selling the entire (untouched) sim for L$1,000,000 (>L$15 sqm)

Can anyone tell me how LL can justify allowing that person to swap land in the first place??

The AV that asked for the swap should be banned and the Linden that allowed it severely disciplined - as far as I'm concered it's fraud - L$1,000,000 in RL money is over $3,500.

Gomez

I'm just saying that it wouldn't necessarily be fair to everyone if LL imposed a "no sales" rule on Zindra that lasted more than a few weeks, if at all. And assuming they don't, not every sale we see on Zindra would necessarily be evil.

I logged in today to find one of the Land Barons that managed to get a swap, now selling the entire (untouched) sim for L$1,000,000 (>L$15 sqm)

Can anyone tell me how LL can justify allowing that person to swap land in the first place??

The AV that asked for the swap should be banned and the Linden that allowed it severely disciplined - as far as I'm concered it's fraud - L$1,000,000 in RL money is over $3,500.

Gomez

I think land sales on Zindra should be banned for at least the 2 week "grace" period - otherwise how can the AV justify grabbing land just to flip whilst the rest of us are still waiting for land we actually need to use?

Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Probably LL has no mechanism for doing that automatically, so it would be by AR (as suggested). Kind of strange to set the rule now and make it retroactive (especially in the unlikely event that some Zindra land actually sold already), but it wouldn't be outrageous, as far as I can see.

One minor annoyance or complication: I bought my Zindra parcel for a group because it's the group that's X-rated, not me (not that I don't try ). I could imagine somebody doing that and then wanting to transfer it to a different group; they'd have to wait out the grace period... which wouldn't be tragic, either.

A few of us were there a few minutes ago - the land baron just turned up and has taken it off the market. Now she's building a castle on it....

Gomez

A few of us were there a few minutes ago - the land baron just turned up and has taken it off the market. Now she's building a castle on it....

Gomez

But she wasn't very talkative tho

Maybe it was just out of curiosity, like "fuck I wonder if anyone would pay a billion zillion lindens?"

I don't know much about land barons, but there's talk of a few things like this in the forums, like dodgy deals ot big barons... is it possible that some could have specialised in mature rated land and hence commercial etc?

In fairness to her she does own a mainland sim

"Sexy escort lounge, biker hangout, riders, sex bed, shops, adboards, and apartments, sex room rentals, escort ads, sex rooms, escort apartments, free BDSM dungeon. adult environment, nudity, nudity encouraged"

However the land for sale was in bad taste considering peoples situation, and she may have only just started that sim recently just to flip, we wont really know for sure.

But I do agree that people granted a move should NOT be able to sell the land for a period of time or at least until the new viewer comes into force or the auctions for zindra etc.

just my thoughts though

The mainland sim was claimed on June 9th - the skybox with a club in it was built on the same day - the signs for the place were created on 15th June... (using "inspect" from the pie menu)

I'll leave it up to everyone to interpret thier own thoughts on that...

Gomez

The mainland sim was claimed on June 9th - the skybox with a club in it was built on the same day - the signs for the place were created on 15th June... (using "inspect" from the pie menu)

I'll leave it up to everyone to interpret thier own thoughts on that...

Gomez

Well yeah. What happened about the talk of Lindens checking land and backdating the checks to make sure people didnt just build things recently to claim new land? We've have been here over 2 years with the same club/theme and have been told they won't be dealing with any more tickets till after the 8th July. Then along comes this person, gets a sim, puts it up for sale straight away, reads the forums, comes online, takes it off the market, puts a castle on, and thinks that will keep us happy! Noooo, while one builds the other is afk, when the other moves the first is afk, and so on, looks like alts to me, THEN you go to the original location and it was bought on the 9th June 2009. Sorry, wayyyy too much of a coincidence in my view. Oh and 11 members and closed group. Nah, just someone trying to con LL and us by getting land they dont really deserve.

What about all the hundreds of REAL adult content people waiting for their plot, the ones stuck in limbo and possibly losing rent cos people say, you are moving soon so I wont bother than you very much. Yeah well thanks for messing us around LL.