New Zindra Blog Post

In trying to find the quote from Cyn Linden at a Brown Bag meeting, I'm finding that the transcript posters didn't say who said what.

Can anyone point me to where Cyn said something like, "I don't see why anyone affected by this would be denied a swap" or even "I don't see a problem with anyone requesting....being denied"

Or Jack saying "Those impacted...."
Suddenly it's turned into only "commercialized" and I'd like to hit them with their own quotes.

Over and over and over Jack and Blondin stressed it was "advertizing" not "commercial"

At the present rate, I predict that the swap (for "commercialized" only) will be completed in early 2010.

Just joking (sort of).

Unless you want to slog through the audio versions and find a time where she said that, you might point out that their own KB article alternates between "commercialized" and "publicly-promoted" to describe what has to move. But those really are the only things they see as "impacted".

To save a trip through bookmarks: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6345

There's a big difference between what has to move and what needs to move. Everyone who owns mature mainland should be allowed to move. There's nothing reassuring about adult content on mainland in any of the knowledgebase articles or the community standards.

We all will be allowed to move, just not necessarily for free.

There is plenty, to the literate.

Reading between lines is no evidence of literacy dear. There's nothing there to say private is ok, nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

I'm not. I'm almost exactly quoting what one of the "activists" in question said. Maybe they weren't just talking about porn, maybe they were talking about lag, and adult-verified botfarms, and god knows what else. But that's the term they used.

Most of the people who need to be offered a move to Zindra aren't "providers of content" at all.

Actually I sort of found out myself, and some other interesting quotes from various attendees:


Next question from Stroker, "It seems to me that most of the people do not understand or know that changes are coming." I'll add that. "We want to know if Linden Lab is going to do more about making people aware, i.e., message of the day, dedicated website, wiki, phased deployment with message of the day and drop-dead dates."

Cyn: I can take that one, if you guys want. Yes, absolutely, but what we've been doing up until now is all pre-work. We wanted to have conversations with people before we made firm choices and decisions about content, definitions, and all of the stuff that we've been talking about.

Now that we've had a chance to talk with the community in several different groups and in the forums, now we can -- once we make our final decisions about exactly how this is going to work, not just content moves, but how search is going to work, the definitions and information that you guys have provided to us -- now we can start talking about it in a much broader fashion.

As we get closer to launch, obviously we want as many people informed as possible. But we didn't want to do that until we were sure about what we were talking about. And to do that, we need to be in conversation with you all, which is what we've been doing. So, yes, it will get pushed out much more broadly as we get closer to deploy on this.


[Where is this "pushed out more broadly?" Two days , message of the day?]

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JP: Next question, from Lord Sullivan: "Why will PG, mature, and adult sims be allowed to be mixed and side-by-side on private estates, so anyone can walk from PG to adult to mature if their verified status allows, yet adult becomes a dirty word and is separated on the mainland?"

Marty: Our intent in doing this is to make the mainland a more predictable experience. So we're separating the mature from the adult content on the mainland. In private areas, the owners get to make decisions about what goes on there and how it's rated.

Sure, a predictable experience, if you want to come into Second Life and not see adult content, that you can do that as long as you stay in mature and PG Regions. That's what we mean by "predictable experience.


[I.E. Private Islands are immune from flagging at all, another push from LL to get more money in tier. Another thing that makes a mockery of this entire plan]

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JP: Then it looks like a follow-up from Stroker. "It seems like there will be a definite impact on the mainland parcels being relocated to Ursula. One was the cutoff date for those being relocated. Many are buying parcels currently hoping to be moved. Also, since the land sales are already depressed, will there be any incentive for land buyers to purchase these deserted parcels? Do you foresee any detrimental impact on the land market?"

Cyn: Let's see. I guess I'm not sure if I mind if somebody buys a parcel on the mainland and then gets moved to Ursula. I don't foresee having a cutoff date right now. But I shouldn't probably speak to details on that because I know that Harmony and the land team are working very hard on that plan, and when that gets public then you'll know exactly what they've decided. I don't have my finger on that right this second.

I think that people in the course of their business that buy parcels on the mainland and then sell adult content need to move to the new continent. And as far as land reclamation goes, that's actually a very strong market. We're seeing quite a bit of good movement there.

Reclaiming parcels and connecting them hopefully to other areas that also have been abandoned or left in other ways, we get a lot of good results offering those to neighbors sometimes, if they're interested in those areas. And then on the auction site. I actually don't think it's going to have a significant impact in that way.

So I know that Jack and the land team have done a very thorough analysis of how they expect that will probably work, and they're very comfortable. So I think we're probably fine.

[Not certain how to interpret this, I guess it wasnt as cut and dried as I originally thought]

Reading between the lines is the only way that one could believe that "adult" means anything other than what LL specifically states that it means, sweetkins. Every panic that private naughty stuff won't be allowed on mature land is rooted in a refusal to accept that the LL definition makes "adult" and "private" mutually exclusive.

"The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use."

You only quoted a portion of the definition. That's the thinking of wacky religious fanatics. Read the WHOLE section.

The whole section only stipulates why regions need to flag as adult:

"Any Region must be designated Adult and therefore require account verification, if it advertises or publicly promotes the following:

" * Representations of intensely violent acts, whether or not photo-realistic (for example, depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm)
* Photo-realistic nudity; photo-realistic means that an image either is or cannot be distinguished from a photograph
* Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities (whether or not photo-realistic); we will broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct"


Nowhere does it stipulate what adult content is, absolutely nowhere.

Yes, it does exactly that. It's called a definition by analysis. It spells out the characteristics that make a region adult.

Good luck finding the part of the mature definition that says private pixel bumping is ok, it's not there.

This is the company who turned the tables on people over openspaces and ignored what they'd said in forum posts and support tickets and pointed only to their KB articles.

Nothing in their KB articles or community standards says private pixel bumping is ok on mature land.

Lurker checking in to shout out Qie.

Hey Qie, I think that you are the guy I met sitting in that seaside field up in Z yesterday. If you recall, I was just out bopping about to see what the good adult kind of folks were building in the brave new land. Anyway, good going that you got what you were going for.

And to all, an observation from someone that is just kind of an average sail bum and all around jack of trades. The new continent is kind of butt ugly. The Linden stuff looks like some cheesy 50's era sci fi architecture, and all the that glow's got to go.

Wishing you all success in doing a much better job of building than they did. Stay cool, be friendly and supportive of each other and do it right. You have been given an amazing opportunity to shape your destiny. Pioneers in a new land. Better to look at it from that perspective I believe.

Private pixel bumping is not among the characteristics that make a region adult. I'll note that nowhere in these definitions is it specified that driving vehicles or the wearing of hats is allowed anywhere on the grid.

So, because they pointed to the KB articles as the final word, we should now assume that the KB articles are *not* the final word?


Nothing in their KB articles or community standards says that public chat is allowed on any land.

Yes but you're ignoring issues such as:

"Second Life is an adult community, but 'Adult' content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life 'mainland.'"

Now most people have a grasp of what adult activity is, and it's not generally considered that it means driving vehicles or wearing hats. I'm not sure when Linden Lab redefined the dictionary.

KB articles and community standards are the final word, that's evident. A "nudge nudge wink wink" policy is being employed, that can be ignored any day of the week and it simply isn't good enough.

What is so hard about a clear and unambiguous statement to say that the adult definition does not include private conduct on mature land?

I mean they do start to address this issue, one of their kb articles states:

"In the FAQs below, we offer examples as to what types of Regions are and are not considered adult, based on, for example, distinctions between "public" and "private" content, as well as distinctions between content that is "expressly sexually themed" and content that is not. "

Only there's no further clarification.

I flip out! This is not what Blondin and Jack preaching all day long. And this is why we ALL need to migrate/move to Zindra and this is why we ALL need the free swap!

Is this not to bring into the heads of these "Lindens"?!

I'm not politically savvy like you folks, but would it not have been simpler to just change all the mature places rather than everyone have to move to a new land? Or move stuff around so that all the not mature places were together? It's kind of like they are making a second second life.

Forgive my ignorance. Also though, you think you got lag? Try using a satelite connection from one of the most God forsaken remote parts of Mother Earth sometimes.

This posting stuff is a bit addictive.

I'm not ignoring it. Immediately after that sentence, they point you to the place that tells you what "Adult" means.


They provided their dictionary, the linked knowledge base article. They even put little quotation marks around "Adult" to call attention to the reader that the word was not being used plainly.


There is a question there, "What are 'Mature' Regions, groups, events, and classifieds?" that lists a whole range of venues that are okay, so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content. That list includes "and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning". If there is pixel slapping going on, how can that house *not* be a place for socializing? Is all this because they didn't spell out "residence" as one of those other spaces for socializing?

Hi Zor. Well, this is what we tell them since 4 months 24/7 with thousand voices on the highest IQ level on every available communication channel and also at their weekly office hours face to face. So, if you just suddenly stopped by to take a flavor of the situation, then you came here in one second to the same smart conclusion like we all before - that means: since 1 minute after Cyn Linden launched the very first announcement about the plan on March, 12, 2009 we suggested the somehow same logical idea like you. If you are new to this and interested in a sort of excellent and complete documentary about the whole mess since March, you can find all essentials sampled and listed on the following website/wiki, because we are all tired to explain it every day new to new eyes and for other good reasons, this perfect source of information, made by helpful and ambitioned residents exists:

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

This is why we also need the AR process addressed...

So now we have sim after sim after sim of rocky barren land to choose from...Hmmmm, or beachfront...Hmmm.


Linden Labs, what do you think I will choose?


*snaps her fingers* Of COURSE...the boring flat rocky land!


Thank you soooo much!




(End sarcasm)

Why doesn't LL put in a Grand Canyon? Now THAT would be cool!

This all is a strategy to demoralise/discourage/confuse us in the war of attrition.

On all levels.

Yeah, we know how that went....

By the way, the grid was slightly more than 1% adult, before the extra 70 or so Zindra regions get added. That is counting the estates that have converted.

Mainland regions counts were:

* Linden - Adult: 162
* Linden - Mature: 3832
* Linden - PG: 1429

As of Jun 28th. If we add another 70 regions to zindra, that will make it 232 adult, or 4.22%, so we are already pushing past the 2-4% estimate for the mainland.