New Zindra Blog Post

I don't particularly care for that either. But it happens in RL as well. When it does, I might ask that person to lower their voice, move away from them, or complain to management if I am in an establishment. I have choices. But I don't suggest they be sent away to a restricted area.

Jack Linden: Surveyor! These Zindra tickets are piling up. You told me that only 2-4% of Mainland would need to moved.
Surveyor Linden: Nooooooo! I said that only 2-4% would *not* need to be moved.
Jack Linden: ........................ Ohhhhh crap!

This was something that worried me as well, right from the start.

LL has been acting all along as if residents would *want* to make sur that they stayed "mature" rather than go to Zindra. I was thinking along the same lines of folks like Argent and Wynochee- that is was the "you can do anything here, even if you don't choose to" aspect of mature land that appealed, and that LL was re-defining that land category as "adult". Thus many who had no *business* reasons to move would still want to.

That's why I've been arguing pretty much from day one that any mature landowner ought to be eligible for the swap, and that they ought to take requests for a limited time, and then award regions and parcels from the largest requests to the smallest- to make sure that things were done as efficiently as possible.

That there is resentment building (which still seems to me like being jealous of the fact that someone getting raped in the prison shower is getting more attention than you are ) is simply an indication that folks like Wynochee and Argent are much more representative of the "resident on the street" view than LL anticipated or wants to admit.

How this will all play out is anyone's guess, but I think one of my partners put it best-

"We dropped the soap, bent over, and felt the tip slide in- but we don't know how big the rest of it is, or how long the line behind us is"

^V^

Neither do I. Which is why, again, I find the whole AO thing so awful. We should be able to deal with this in other ways, internally, through discussion and generation of rules of behaviour that are accepted, not imposed. The fact that we have so often failed to do is our failure.

I wonder if this is symptomatic of a more general problem, namely LL's inability to accurately predict what users will do. A previous example is the openspace fiasco.

If you are operating a business, and the city changes the zoning of your land, and they say:

" your type of business has been prohibited in this Zoning designation. You can either stop being a business and turn it into residential property, or you can re-locate to an gated area of area of our choosing. Only people who have been fingerprinted and have a DNA sample on file will be able to access this area to shop, and maybe you'll get land that's suitable to your business, and maybe you won't."

What would you call that if it happened to you in real life?

Because the Money that we invest in our businesses *is* real life money you know. This might be Second life, but the money that funds it doesn't come from our imaginations. It comes from out wallets. And the more obstacles that are placed in the way of earning a living in-world, the more we have to pay out-of-pocket.

And for some people, whatever the circumstances, this *is* their RL business.

The stakes here are higher than you seem to want to admit. this isn't "all about choice", this is about being *forced* to choose between two *very* poor options- not much of a choice at all, really.

If you don't *have* to move, good for you. but it doesn't make any sense to be jealous of those who do.

^V^

I think that you are hitting the nail on the head here. I think that there are some things in SL that have gone off the rails, but that's only my opinion. reasonable people can disagree about those things, but the bare bones of it is that people have a right to be comfortable in their own backyard- regardless of whether they are a Dolcette picnic group, or a bunch of Child AV's playing tag.

But LL could have fixed this by separating PG and Mature mainland into two sections, so that they wouldn't have to look across sim boundaries and see stuff that makes them itch (and that goes both ways BTW- If someone set up a PG disco next door that played Barry Manilow all day, I'd go completely bonkers).

So rather than *do* that, and give residents an actual "predictable experience", they decided to do this instead- a massive overreaction, and a poorly thought-out one at that.

Everything that *everyone* is complaining about stems from that simple fact- rather than do something *simple* and traumatic, they opted to do something *complicated* and even *more* traumatic.

^V^

In real life that is not what happens.

In Real Life, they change the zoning on your business and you are granted an automatic "variance" that extends until your business stops operating in that zone. That means if you get burned down, or an earthquake destroys you, you cannot rebuild your business - game over - apply for a variance from the zoning commission (Bill Banks if you are in Chicago ), and hope you paid enough in political donations to the commissioner and his party to get the variance.

Again, spot-on reasoning, Argent. There are some folks who want to live their lives (RL *or* SL) and those who want others to live their lives according to what *they* are comfortable with.

The first group is to be respected and reasoned with. the second, to be fought tooth and nail.

^V^

@post 1049: 100% agreed. LL had many opprtunities to nip this, yet they continued to ignore it, continued placing PG regions next to Mature, ignoring legitimate complaints from customers, reachng where we are now. My apologies to all of you who this is really affecting, but I hope this is an epic fail, and LL gets burned, badly. They deserve it.

The problem, of course, is that LL *hasn't* put them in separate corners. PG is *still* mingled with Mature, and people can still see all kinds of Non-commercial stuff that will offend them over in the sim next door.

LL hasn't done *anything* to solve the problem. they've simply opened up a new area where people can go if they are verified, and broken search even more than it was before

the problem is still there- in fact it is worse, because *now*, adult content on mature land is in a kind of limbo. It's *technically* allowed, but a great many people *think* that it isn't.

LL is relying on the AR regime to show them where to enforce things, and that opens the process to all kinds of abuse and misunderstandings.

LL won't even publish a list of filtered search terms to show residents where the lines are drawn- people have to either "game the system" by checking the Slapt.me wiki, or risk an AR and invisibility by *guessing* and trial and error.

As I have said before, it is like they took the worst features of many plans and created a truly horrific one. Like a Frankenstein's monster but from *all* abnormal parts.

^V^

Not jealous. Just tired of your incessant complaining. Actually I do operate a SL business as well, but fortunately have a real life career that provides me with more than adequate resources financially. The stuff in SL is kind of like role play for me. A game for recreation. My goal is to make enough to pay tier and membership, and leftovers for shopping or giving away.

Perhaps some people should have thought a little harder about comitting a large portion of their disposable income to a world that exists only in someone else's server space, over which you have absolutely no control.

One of the first things I always advise new citizens, is don't invest more money into the game than you are willing to lose.

After all, LL could just up and go out of business, or change the rules of the game at any time (like they are doing now).

In the end, our continued use of the product is entirely dependant on their cooperation and interpretation.

Well, yes. you can only *ever* mitigate a problem like offensive speech (or typing). The only way to ensure that nobody types anything that could be offensive is to chop off their hands!

Part of freedom of speech is the freedom to be offended by what you hear and respond accordingly. I'm not saying that speech shouldn't have *consequences*, but you simply *cannot* restrain it- not even in the most repressive regime on the planet.

If someone wants to say something badly enough, they will- it's that simple.

The only solution to the problem is to either ban (or encourage the sim owner to do so) those who will not clean up their language, or stop going to the places that they go.

there's no such thing as "speech control" imposed from without. there is only "speech supression" or "speech retribution"

^V^

Well, I hope you are wrong: I hate to think that the only options are imposing something by force from above (which is, after all, the "Zindra" model), or allowing such people to restrict and censor MY freedoms.

Call me a crazy dreamer, but I do believe that, with discussion, debate, and compromise, a third option which respects both the rights and sensibilities of all sides can be achieved. I think, imperfect as they are, that our modern democracies represent positive steps in that kind of direction. Personally, I think it is time that SL "grew up," and ended its reliance upon patronizing interventions by LL, so that we might deal with cultural and social issues such as this ourselves.

Exactly- whoever is doing their consumer research is relying on a lot of assumptions that aren't valid, and it is crippling LL ability to deal with their customers in a flexible and relaxed manner.

It is as if they started things up and then left town for 5 years, directing things by registered letter. then they come back and are shocked to discover the the picture in their head isn't what happened.

^V^

Oh, I absolutely agree- talking and coming to a consensus is vastly preferable- but you specifically said "despite the entreaties of the owner", so I assumed that reason wasn't an option in that example.

BY all means it is best to talk first, and I have found that many people will be appalled that they have offended, and will gladly moderate their behavior.

Those that insist that they have a "right" to say what they want, are correct, but they are also perfectly free to face the consequences of their free speech. After all, free speech is free for *everyone*, not just those who agree with you

And here's hoping that LL realizes soon that it would be in its best interest to *let* us cut the apron-strings, and grow some of our own governance so that we have options to deal with our more "troubled" elements.

^V^

I think there clearly is a need for a new governance model.
Maybe the time has come to think in terms of "virtual nations" hosted on LL's platform with governance models, processes and resident participation that has proved to work in the physical world.

This would also render both Linden Lab and the residents less vulnerable to external regulatory intervention.

Heh, exactly. in RL the government can't take your property away without due process, and also without fair compensation (in the case of Eminent Domain).

And while I imagine that some people who know lindens are getting "variances", there are also some who are "getting in on the ground floor" by buying the fallow field where the freeway extension is going to be built

All we need is building inspectors, utilities and trash removal, and we'd be just as corrupt as real life

^V^

In the case of this particular sim owner, I don't think it was so much a failure of "reason" to effect change, as a conscious decision not to devote the kind of effort and time to the issue that achieving consensus really requires.


And this . . .


Yes, exactly. Curiously enough, this, and specifically consensus, was the very theme of the SL6B exhibit I produced for the SLLU Feminist Network . . .

I'm sorry, I thought that your original complaint was that adult business owners were getting *preferential treatment*, not that we were a bunch of whiners.

I was merely trying to show you that it isn't preferable, or some kind of gift to be forced to choose between:

-Pulling up stakes and moving from land that you have "broken in" to be the way you like
-re-organizing your entire business model and learning to build tea cozies
-to eat your investment of time and money and simply spend your second life as a tourist.

My mistake.

^V^

This is an anxious time for many not knowing how smoothly thier move will go. It is natural to complain I think. It is a largely inconvenient and time consuming process.

I think it is also important that we continue to report when we our transfers are done.
It looks like most people are reporting professional and helpful behaviour from the Lindens they are dealing with.

Those who are mearly rubbernecking and not part of the train wreck at the moment, are free to just walk away.

You *are* getting preferential treatment. Everyone who currently owns mature land should be offered a move, not just those who have a business.

The blog has been updated....

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/07/03/a-zindra-update-more-land-on-the-way

Gomez

Read: "It's July 4th celebrations this weekend here and we want the weekend off"

Gomez

Beside the usual griefers, is my impression, that SL (and I explore much on the grid) became all in all a surprisingly good self-organized, organic grown, pulsating metropolitan/cosmoplitan environment along the years I am in. Less chaotic and managed by written and unwritten/unspoken rules and that basicly more by residents than by LL. Measured on the numbers of people and nationalities it is somehow wonderful, that there is much common sense at work. Even the tool "ignorance" (at the moment as a positive metaphore) is established. In a meaning of: live and let live.

Also is my impression that there is ever a phase after which new residents are becoming more and more part of this kind of "grid-mainstream". I think, along a year is a newbie firm with the atmosphere(s).

So beside singular conflicts which sure happening every day somewhere, I see the glass more than half full, than half empty. So seen SL *is* grown up, from my view, along the 6 years and along 2-3 I am in.

Even the forums here along the bitter conflict with LL and filled with much strong characters, different world views and all possible emotions are 99,99% on an acceptable civilisized level and this without any moderation! Thingy is kind of self-moderating.

I am not unhappy about how SL and about how such discussions are running. It is only the old problem, that there is no significant number Linden staff to take up the very essentials and to bring them straight into the ears of the top-management. We offered, sometimes with temperament, sometimes more relaxed, bundles of compromises and ways to escort their plan (oh escort is filtered...anyway) - Also we suggested to test the handling before and to offer much more technical and mental generousity to us - to make it as smooth and painless as possible.

Tier we pay so or so.

LL loses nothing if they make that thing much more comfortable. They said, they researched the plan 18 months.

Hmmm, hmmm. I doubt.

On March, 12, they served us 4-5 empty plates and (metaphore -> yelled: "eat!" Then they were running back into the kitchen and yelled from there: "any comments?"

We made comments. Kitchen stood very silent.

Then they served (as answers) smaller plates, with even nothing on it and yelled: "eat again!"

Conclusion: we are maybe only a imperfect democracy - but this is all we have on globe and as you said right, it is the base of all "living together".

But is the company part of this imperfect democracy?

Constitutional: yes.

Factual: no.

That's why we stuck here. SL is grown up well, made by its resdients and only by them.

About how "grown up" LL is, this is the question...

I have still no clue about if LL likes what is growing on the grid, if they love to work with people, or if they really and only have only a focus on the dollars, without any *real* emotion and without *involved* intellect, beside the money thing.

They have intellect and emotions in their Lab-environment, hehehe, but they hide much of both behind their standard phrases and small biz comments.

Since english is not my main language and since I don't know who is behind the Linden avatars, it would be necessary to meet them at this upcoming San Francisco event, to have some more stable impressions about the personalities.

IF I stay more years here...then I will meet them one time. Just to know then... - but so far is my impresseion: OMG